[Archived] Nelsen

[Fife Rover]

No need to be so defensive, so I'll just ignore the end of your response.

In my opinion though, selling Bellamy for £6.5m and replacing him with a 28 year old European Cup winner with a impressive strike ratio at Domestic, European, and International level and another 28 year old proven Premiership striker for around £4.5m is good business. It also represents squad and team strengthening. Last summer many people said that though they were pleased with the Bellamy arrival, he was many peoples second choice to McCarthy. I hasten to add he was also Hughes' second choice.

I personally would rather have McCarthy and Roberts than just Bellamy. That's what we have. We also have £2m left over.

Ryan Nelsen is a very good player, and our best center back. We signed him for free. However, if we had the chance to replace him with a player such as Huth, who in my opinion, Jose Mourinhos' opinion, Bayern Munchens' opinion and many Premiership clubs managers' opinion is a very good player, for less money than we recieve for Nelsen, then it is something we should seriously consider. Here we have the opportunity to sign a 23 year old German International defender, who has much Premiership, Champions League, UEFA Cup and Major International experience, and who will only get better and better to replace a 28 year old New Zealand International, with no Major International experience and no previous European football experience. Further to this, it is unlikely Nelsen will get much better, if better at all.

Add to this we could also add a Dutch International defender who has played in European Championships, World Cups and Champions League/UEFA Cup as well and potentially still have money left over from the Nelsen sale.

Again, I personally would prefer Huth and Ooijer as opposed to just Nelsen.

This I suspect would still leave us with the original transfer kitty still untouched.

One thing I would like to make clear is I in no way want Nelsen to leave.

What I am trying to stress is that there is every reason for Rovers to seriously consider the scenarios I have highlighted, and that the fans shouldn't be disheartened at the prospect of this particular piece of business going ahead.

Ps. I believe there is a high possibility of Huth, Nelsen and Ooijer all playing in the same Rovers team this season, and obviously that would be the perfect scenario, unless keeping Nelsen meant we couldn't splash out on a creative midfielder. Imagine Petrov, Huth and Ooijer. Would Nelsens' departure be quite so painful then?

Well you have won me over Shillito, and that is no mean feat. I too would hate to see Nelsen go, but if the scenario you painted above were to happen, then it would be a much better situation for Rovers to find themselves in both from a footballing and financial point of view. Plus it would definitely strengthen the team and the club in all respects. Players, pundits and Joe Public would all begin to see the Rovers in the same sort of light that at present only applies to the "Big Clubs". I am already half-hoping that it will happen, although I would suggest that the same sort of thinking could be applied to a lesser degree, but proportionately effective, if other "want away" players are sold for good fees.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Fife Rover

[RevidgeBlue]

I still can't agree with shillito's analysis - it's all ifs and buts.

If you have a particularly successful player, it's always a huge gamble letting him go because no matter how much money you make, you don't know if the replacement is going to settle in at the club, blend in with the team etc.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, better the devil you know than the one you don't etc. etc.

Besides we don't actually know if either Huth or Ooijer have the slightest interest in joining us, although I presume the latter will have, as it will represent one big last payday for him.

[thenodrog]

Does nobody understand the business aspect of football at all?

Rovers sign Nelsen for free. We have reportedly turned down a £5m bid.

So let's say Nelsen is sold for £6m, that is a £6m profit, on a 28 year old player who has injury problems, and no matter what you might say with your 'Blue and White shades' on, a player who is highly replacable.

It is common sense. Look at Arsenal, it's how they've run their ship for the past decade...

Petit, Overmars and Anelka were all bought for combined fees of around £7.5m.

They were sold for combined fees of £53.5m.

They were then replaced by Gilberto, Pires and Henry for combined fees of £19.5m.

Obviously we are talking a different level of player and club stature here, but for arguments sake, we sign Bellamy and Nelsen for combined fees of £3.75m..

We then sell the two players for fees of £12.5m..

The replacements so far would be Roberts, McCarthy and Jeffers, combined fees of around £4.5m. I believe we could then sign Ooijer and Huth for combined fees of around £5m.

This leaves Rovers £3m up, with a stronger and deeper squad (In my opinion) which also doesn't include two injury prone players.

Adding this £3m extra to the transfer funds we already had, plus any income we seem like we might get for Emerton, it could leave Rovers with a deeper squad, which has a larger spread of quality in comparisions to last seasons, with potentially £10m or so spendable money, which could obviously be used for one or two special players, or three or four more good quality Premiership players.

This, with no questions ask, leaves us a much stronger team and squad, and represents great player trading by Rovers.

It's the way football works, and when done properly, ala Arsenal, leads to great success both on and off the pitch. Obviously to do this you need a good board and a good manager..

I feel Rovers are lucky enough to have both.

Excellent post Shillito. Many points I have made before on here. By being in the Prem we are punching well above our weight and cannot hope to compete with the big boys anymore. Football is a sport second and a business first and to stay where we are we need to box clever and play the system. Sentimentallity is for shmucks. Sure nobody wants Neill or Nelsen to go but if we can turn a profit and replace them with better then well and good.

Lets imagine a scenario where we are either in the bottom 6 or in the top 8 at Christmas. Profit made now could be put to good use. If we have made no money then there is nowhere to go. Our biggest vulnerability would be to lose our management team, and imo to keep them here they should be on a %age of any profits made from transfers (within certain criteria).

I have said before that we have superb facilities and a great management team who have a record of turning players fading careers around and that agents should be falling over themselves to put their underachieving talent into our hands. Now Hughes has said as much in the LT...... I'm not sure that we are all that sexy yet but imo we are certainly getting there and Hughes's teams efforts really do need to be richly financially rewarded in order to keep them away from other predatory chairmen.

From the LT

Hughes: Rovers are sexy now

By Andy Neild

MAIN ATTRACTION: Rovers boss Mark Hughes

BLACKBURN Rovers manager Mark Hughes believes his club is an attractive proposition to leading players.

Hughes has already made four signings this summer, including strikers Benni McCarthy and Jason Roberts, and he is heading the chase to land Dutch World Cup defender Andre Ooijer from PSV Eindhoven. And that's just a sign of the times for the Ewood boss, who helped rejuvenate Craig Bellamy's career before a move to Liverpool last month.

Hughes, whose side face Sparta Rotterdam tomorrow night in Holland, said: "I think people are now starting to understand what we can offer here. The football grapevine can be a good thing and a bad thing, but I think the word has got out that the work we do here enables people to develop as football players and I think we're more attractive in that respect. Certainly European football and the attraction of that has helped this summer as well. But I just think people understand what we have here now. We've got great facilities, I'd like to think a good manager, great coaches, good back-up from all departments at the club, and everything is geared to make players better, and that will always be an attraction for footballers."

Franny Jeffers is one of the players hoping to get his career back on track, and the attraction of working with Hughes was a major factor in his free transfer move to Ewood. And fellow striker McCarthy will be looking to build on his debut goal against Aachen on Saturday. "Obviously, you have to sell the club to these guys," said Hughes. "They have to understand what we can offer and that is part and parcel of the negotiation process.

"We've been successful this season in that respect and we hope that will continue. "We've had a decent year this year and other years won't be as fruitful, I'm sure. "

"But I'm happy enough."

[/i]

Edited August 9, 2006 by thenodrog

[RevidgeBlue]

It struck me as well gordon that the bit about developing players was very similar to what you've been saying but I was worried by Hughes assertion that we've had a decent close season and others might not be as good.

We've failed to hang on to Bellamy, failed to land our number one choice as his replacement, and might lose Nelsen.

I'd hate to see a bad close season!

In what way do we really need to hard sell the club? If none of the Champions League clubs want the players in question we're the next best option. And thanks to TV money we can offer significantly higher wages than most continental outfits.

[rover6]

I'm not convinced by Huth. He seems to have undergone the Darren Fletcher rise to fame. International recognition and occasional appearances for a big club suddenly mean that he is a star. Never mind the fact that they haven't actually been THAT impressive for their clubs.

But leaving that aside, selling Nelsen sends the wrong impression to the current players and players we want to entice to the club. Rovers will always sell to survive BUT we need to maintain some kind of continuity in the team.

[greggyk]

maybe Huth just needs games?

Cant be good for him knowing that when he plays in the one off game for Chelsea, that no matter how well he plays, there is no chance he'll be playing the next game.

I trust Hughes(I mean the 2 defenders he's signed in Nelsen and Zurab have been quality- Axe is midfield ) and if he thinks he's a quality signing, who are we to say he's wrong.

[den]

Why would we want to sell someone like Nelsen - who we know is top quality, then gamble on Huth - who hasn't proven himself at any level yet? Simple question.

The way forward in improving a side, is to replace your poorer players, not your best ones.

[philipl]

Why would we want to sell someone like Nelsen - who we know is top quality, then gamble on Huth - who hasn't proven himself at any level yet? Simple question.

The way forward in improving a side, is to replace your poorer players, not your best ones.

Simple answer den- we shouldn't unless as a last resort.

There is zero indication that Rovers want to or intend to sell Nelsen- I think this is a plain fact.

Everything else is a pretty interesting debate.

As for Huth needing more games- true. He'll look great turning out away at Pompey in a plaster cast! He'll be as quick as Sol Campbell at the other end.

With regards to RB's questioning Hughes' definition of a good close season- we have shed four £1m+ earners from the wage bill, signed two new £1m+ earners and a 25 year old former England international on a 2 year pay for performance contract and are closing in on a second highly accomplished experienced CL performer in Ooijer. All this and whatever wadge Sparky was given to spend on transfers (which the Trustees were reported as being generous with) remains unspent and he still has the option of up to four loan deals unused. Plus Gamst and Reid are secured on long term deals and we have better cover for Brad.

This is hard fact- not speculation so I can understand Sparky feeling OK- as he has said himself, he can go into the first game of the season now without being forced to sign anyone but he is still out there looking for deals.

RB is clearly seriously worried we are going lose Nelsen and Neill (especially Neill who is a long term favourite of his). Whereas Sparky knows what is in the Rovers' wages piggy bank and how the transfer market is shaping. Hughes hasn't BSed the fans so far so it is safe to assume he is feeling pretty confident Rovers are going to keep Nelsen and Neill or at worse get "silly" money for one or both of them and has his bases covered if that happens. In the meantime, he's winding up the price for Emo who can go if the boost to the transfer kitty is big enough.

If my guess is right then yes, its a good transfer window so far.

Edited August 9, 2006 by philipl

[tcj_jones]

Hasn't Huth proved himself in the premiership at Chelsea, at international level, with Klinsman and Germany, and at under 21 international level?

I understand that this doesn't prove Huth as a proven premiership or international player, but my girlfriends family are Chelsea fans and they hold him in extremely high regard. He is held in the same regard in Germany as well as by many managers in the premiership.

Right now, if I were given Huth and cash for Nelsen, which looks a possibility, I would have to take it. However, there are no certainties that we will get Huth and I cannot think of any other player available that would improve upon Nelsen. I would also like to know more about huth's recent injury history and why he failed a medical with 'Boro before I get too excited about the possibility of him coming.

[Bobby G]

THANK YOU.

Since when has Huth become the next best thing? I dont give a rats if he is rated by big clubs and big coaches, as it doesnt mean anything! He hasnt played even 100 career games in my opinion. Has never been a regular at any level of senior football, and can be clumsy.

YES potentially he is a mammoth on the pitch, but come on guys. Nelsen has proven himself already.

[philipl]

Hasn't Huth proved himself in the premiership at Chelsea, at international level, with Klinsman and Germany, and at under 21 international level?

I understand that this doesn't prove Huth as a proven premiership or international player, but my girlfriends family are Chelsea fans and they hold him in extremely high regard. He is held in the same regard in Germany as well as by many managers in the premiership.

Right now, if I were given Huth and cash for Nelsen, which looks a possibility, I would have to take it. However, there are no certainties that we will get Huth and I cannot think of any other player available that would improve upon Nelsen. I would also like to know more about huth's recent injury history and why he failed a medical with 'Boro before I get too excited about the possibility of him coming.

Agreed. The Germans rave about him. But he's had his ankle operated on, is inplaster until September and January is a realistic target for him reaching match fitness.

[S15]

The irony of all this is, go on a Pompey messageboard and I bet they wouldn't be too overexcited about the prospect of signing Nelsen for over £5m.

In fact, given the choice, I bet most Pompey fans would prefer Distin or Huth over Nelsen.

[USABlue]

No need to be so defensive, so I'll just ignore the end of your response.

In my opinion though, selling Bellamy for £6.5m and replacing him with a 28 year old European Cup winner with a impressive strike ratio at Domestic, European, and International level and another 28 year old proven Premiership striker for around £4.5m is good business. It also represents squad and team strengthening. Last summer many people said that though they were pleased with the Bellamy arrival, he was many peoples second choice to McCarthy. I hasten to add he was also Hughes' second choice.

I personally would rather have McCarthy and Roberts than just Bellamy. That's what we have. We also have £2m left over.

Ryan Nelsen is a very good player, and our best center back. We signed him for free. However, if we had the chance to replace him with a player such as Huth, who in my opinion, Jose Mourinhos' opinion, Bayern Munchens' opinion and many Premiership clubs managers' opinion is a very good player, for less money than we recieve for Nelsen, then it is something we should seriously consider. Here we have the opportunity to sign a 23 year old German International defender, who has much Premiership, Champions League, UEFA Cup and Major International experience, and who will only get better and better to replace a 28 year old New Zealand International, with no Major International experience and no previous European football experience. Further to this, it is unlikely Nelsen will get much better, if better at all.

Add to this we could also add a Dutch International defender who has played in European Championships, World Cups and Champions League/UEFA Cup as well and potentially still have money left over from the Nelsen sale.

Again, I personally would prefer Huth and Ooijer as opposed to just Nelsen.

This I suspect would still leave us with the original transfer kitty still untouched.

One thing I would like to make clear is I in no way want Nelsen to leave.

What I am trying to stress is that there is every reason for Rovers to seriously consider the scenarios I have highlighted, and that the fans shouldn't be disheartened at the prospect of this particular piece of business going ahead.

Ps. I believe there is a high possibility of Huth, Nelsen and Ooijer all playing in the same Rovers team this season, and obviously that would be the perfect scenario, unless keeping Nelsen meant we couldn't splash out on a creative midfielder. Imagine Petrov, Huth and Ooijer. Would Nelsens' departure be quite so painful then?

Some very good points there shillito, not so sure I like Huth too much, but the philosiphy you put forward makes me feel a bit better. I admit to not seeing too much of Huth but from what I have he's solid but a bit dirty, I don't feel he reads the game as well as Nelsen seems too, but that's just from what I have seen.

Edited August 9, 2006 by USABlue

[USABlue]

I'm agreeing with you phillip and I think I am one of the few but I am actually a bit relieved we did not sign Mido.

[G Somerset Rover]

The sale of Nelsen IF he did go would be woeful for Rovers unless we have an excellent replacement lined up. What is concerning me is that we were promised "an accomplished partner for Bellers" Now since then weve sold Bellers, got rid of a hell of alot of dead wood and spent only four and a half million-which should leave us with in theory 6 million AT LEAST if the Gudjohnson rumours were as it seemed true. Either the board have told a few porkies or we're due to spend some serious cash in the next 3 weeks.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Somerset Rover!

[S15]

Comfort should be taken from this report.....

[Florida Rover]

No Nelsen Saturday based on this report here.Not totally surprised.

[RevidgeBlue]

RB is clearly seriously worried we are going lose Nelsen and Neill (especially Neill who is a long term favourite of his).

Nice one phillip!

Things are starting to look a bit embarrasing for Neill.

He loudly trumpeted his availability over a week ago after hinting all summer he would look sympathetically at all options.

Unless things are happening in far greater secrecy than is usually the case, instead of a stampede of top clubs queueing for his services - there's deathly silence.

[roversmum]

Wot, no Portsmouth?

[USABlue]

Nice one phillip!

Things are starting to look a bit embarrasing for Neill.

Now that I'd argee with. You may have even understated that one

[USABlue]

SSN scared the wotsit out of me tonight. They report, "Portsmouth have agreed a fee with...(heart jumps in mouth) Man City for David James, sigh of relief. Is Arry for real? Why look for great central defenders then have it all let down by the English Fabien.

[Hughesy]

This should shut up a few of the doubters. Nelsen commenting on speculation that he wont stay with rovers or sign a new contract. (Taken from the Lancashire Telegraph)

“It’s not that im refusing at all. The teams over in Holland at the moment and iv’e been in England so there’s nothing to sign at the moment.

The manager has the squad to worry about at the moment. Id be really happy to sign the papers. The newspapers have blown this thing all out of proportion.

Im happy at Blackburn, everything is going well, were in Europe so il let the suits do all the talking.”

[Philly Rover ®]

Just to keep this thread updated.

Andy Neild reporting Nelsen close to new deal with Rovers...

...but Pompey making another bid?

How many bids is that from 'arry? Three? Four? I can't keep track anymore. Funny that the "###### Off" message that Rovers have continually given him seems to be too subtle for 'arry.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Philly Rover ®

[USABlue]

How many bids is that from 'arry? Three? Four? I can't keep track anymore. Funny that the "###### Off" message that Rovers have continually given him seems to be too subtle for 'arry.

'Arry blinked and missed it.

[Grabbi Graeme]

Talks progressing between Rovers and Nelsen

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=4...+on+Nelsen+deal

Also good news that Benni is not playing midweek

Edited August 15, 2006 by Grabbi Graeme