[Archived] Sven Caught Again

[LeChuck]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Sir Bobby Robson might be regretting signing a two year deal with the FAI?

If ever there was an ideal man to take over on a short term basis (and possibly longer to work alongside Pearce/Jewell) then he would be that man.

[Grabbi Graeme]

Well the press or the gutter end of it anyway have got what they wanted, The NOTW will already be be pushing names forward of who will be the next England manger and as quick as they are doing that they will also be getting ready to pounce on any failures that the new manger has.

If the FA decide that want an englishman to do the job then they are going to find their options limited.

Favourite is Sam Allardyce 5/2

Strengths: Able to get the best out of players who have lost their way and can operate on a small budget, neither of these really needed to coach/manage England.

Success: Brought Bolton back into the Premiership and over the seasons has turned them from relagation scrappers to a team that has qualified for Europe, also got to final of League Cup.

Has started to turn Bolton into the new Wimbledon, if he does get job put a £10 on Kevin Davies being in first squad.

Steve Mclaren. 7/2

Strengths: Svens assistant manger, thats all I can think of.

Success. Has spent a fair bit of money turning Boro into a team fighting relegation.

Did win the League cup and had a good run in Uefa cup last season.

Alan Curbishley. 3/1

Strengths: Ability to keep a Charlton mid table, without the worry of going into a relagation fight or climbing into a euro place.

Success: See Above.

Stuart Pearce 12/1

Strengths: Passionate englishman who manges like he usued to play.

Success: Took over Man City last season and is turning them into a good solid team, Pearce has alreadysaid he is not experienced enough to take the England job yet.

Paul Jewell: 20/1

Has done well this season with Wigan and has not spent a lot of money in doing it, but too early in his career to considered.

and finally

Alan Shearer 66/1

Is Finishing his playing career at the end of the season and will be available, but question is can he do the England and Newcastle jobs together.

[joey_big_nose]

  RevidgeBlue said:

joey, out of interest, since Sven's been in charge do you think we've performed better, worse, or about the same than should have been expected given the players we've had available over that period?

Take out the 5-1 game in Munich and I can't find much in the "better" category.

[philipl]

The FA have taken decisive action and must believe/hope thay have stabilised the situation.

Maybe they have.

But the law of unintended consequences will ignore the fact that there are no fit candidates to take the England job.

The best thing the press could do in the interest of the England football team is to start a campaign against the appointment of an English manager to run England.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4641972.stm is the running order. So far as I am concerned, I would have deep concerns (to say the least) if any of the English names on that list were to come to manage Blackburn Rovers.

On that basis, they certainly are not fit to manage England.

Going back to the dirty three who have banned Sven, Man United say its not us, gov.

Incidentally, if Newcastle lose their Court case (see Souness thread), the Mancs owe the VAT man £400k for last year's payments to agents.

Edited January 24, 2006 by philipl

[SuperStella]

How inevitable was last nights announcement!?!!

He should have left 2 years ago, never mind waiting til after the world cup. Thanks for the 5-1 Sven, and erm...erm....erm.... close the door on your way out.

I would go for O'Neill, Pearce and have people like Bobby Robson, Peter Taylor as backroom staff.

I doubt it would work with Allardyce - a lot of his work ethic is based on the levels of fitness they have to reach day in, day out using computer-based equipment etc etc - only seeing the players once or twice every few months would make it hard to stick to this regime. Why has Steve Bruce and Steve McLaren even been linked??? How can you trust someone who spent £1.5m on Martin ''Tiny'' (I can think of a lot worse nicknames) Taylor? Must be having a laugh!! McLarens spent a fortune on idiots like Hasselbaink, Viduka and let them take the p*ss and cant get them motivated.

Basically we need a manager that will know his best XI - Eriksson, with only months left to prepare, still doesnt.

Edited January 24, 2006 by SuperStella

[FourLaneBlue]

  RevidgeBlue said:

Spot on.

Was going to use the Fergie analogy.

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Not sure if the Fergie analogy is that relevant though. The players represent England as a part-time job almost. Their 'bread and butter' is from their club. Fergie was their manager, their employer. No wonder there was a bit of crisis when he announced he was leaving as many players will have wondered who their next boss was and whether they'd have to move.

While the England players will be wondering who will replace Sven it is unlikely to have as much of an effect as their club manager leaving. Hopefully it may even free up some of the pressure on them. Our two best performances in the last three decades - 1990 and 1996 - both came under managers who the squad already knew were leaving after the tournament. They say things come in threes. Semi final defeat on penalties again then?

[dave birch]

  FourLaneBlue said:

Not sure if the Fergie analogy is that relevant though. The players represent England as a part-time job almost. Their 'bread and butter' is from their club. Fergie was their manager, their employer. No wonder there was a bit of crisis when he announced he was leaving as many players will have wondered who their next boss was and whether they'd have to move.

While the England players will be wondering who will replace Sven it is unlikely to have as much of an effect as their club manager leaving. Hopefully it may even free up some of the pressure on them. Our two best performances in the last three decades - 1990 and 1996 - both came under managers who the squad already knew were leaving after the tournament. They say things come in threes. Semi final defeat on penalties again then?   

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Sorry, FLB, Fergie was not their employer, he was their manager, yes.

Their employer as was fergie's, was Manu. Most of the players would have gone through several situations where their manager had been sacked, etc etc, so that point is totally irrelevent.

[FourLaneBlue]

OK not technically their employer but as their boss he was obviously in control of whether they would play and he had the kind of authority around the place that meant their future at the club was up to him. A good example would be Stam, one of their best players who was shipped out because he annoyed Fergie.

Not irrelevent even if I did use the wrong term - Sven leaving after the World Cup won't be the same as when Fergie announced he was leaving at the end of the season.

[Mr Maureen]

Sven will be courting potential employees now as we speak.

One of those could be Sweden,our world cup opponents.Interesting!

The FA have screwed up once more.

Thankfully when he eventually does go Ray Clemence will be in the same taxi.

[thenodrog]

  joey_big_nose said:

Get a bloody life. He made a mistake, and, if you hadn't noticed, Brazil were (and still are) the best team in the world by a mile.

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JoeyBN...... Sven has been victimised and witch-hunted by the media just like every other England manager (bar Greenwood and Mercer) since Walter Winterbottom. However if he was any good this trumped up situation would never have happened.

but

1. Whoever decide to offer him a ludicrous contract at 4m per annum (more than twice the salary of any other national manager at Euro 2004!!!) until 2008 should be potted too.

2. Peter Kenyon should be blamed / ostracised in some way for his contribution.

3. If it is now decided that Svens indiscretions are enough for him to go after the world cup then he should go NOW and asap. More atrociously weak management by the FA and especially so when one of our opponents is bloody Sweden ffs!

as for THAT game..........If my memory serves me correctly we did not even have a shot on goal once Brazil went down to 10 men! That is unforgivable. Even the manager of a park football team would have changed tactics when confronted with such a straightforward situation.

[Eddie]

What happens if England win the world cup?

[Nayef]

Pigs will fly

[Eddie]

It's entirely possible, so I'm just wondering what will happen if they do.

[FourLaneBlue]

Well...the FA sacked the last guy who managed that...

[Eddie]

Fair enough.

[Ronin]

Found this article from Oct last year, still sums up Sven IMO

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8305-1811579,00.html

[FourLaneBlue]

Actually Sir Alf Ramsey for England -

1966 World Cup - Winners (best ever performance from England)

1968 Euros - 3rd Place (best ever performance from England)

1970 World Cup - Quarter Finals

1972 Euros - Quarter Finals

They only failed to reach the 1974 World Cup after an amazing performance form Poland's 'clown' keeper at Wembley and Poland went on to reach the semis, beating Brazil in the third place playoff so were hardly any slouches.

If the FA could sack a knight of the realm with a record like that they'd have no problem getting rid of Sven you'd have thought. These are the people who turned down the genius of Brian Clough because they didn't like his manner. Maybe we should nationalise the England team or something...nothing else could do a worse job with it than the FA already does, surely?

[Eddie]

England fans drive me up the wall. The only country I know that can regularly press the self destruct button. Genuine chance of winning the world cup (I personally think Brazil are over-rated simply because they are...Brazil). Yet, for some reason you all intend on having a go at key members of the squad at regular times and then also at the manager. Now you've set the side up for a few uncomfortable months, I hope everyone gets behind them at the right time, but I know that will only be followed by them having their heads being put on the chopping block.

[philipl]

This had me chuckling.

The vacancy falls due when? After the World Cup in June

and the first competitive match for England after that is when? September

And when will the best candidates be likely to be available? After May domestically and after the World Cup internationally

So we are advertising for a replacement when? January

So the FA are confident Sven is going to last until when?

I see the Charlton Chairman has as good as said "please take Curbishley off us".

I am sticking by my guns- imagine the hopefuls as Manager of Blackburn Rovers then see if you want any of the English-born candidates.

[FourLaneBlue]

  Eddie said:

Yet, for some reason you all intend on having a go at key members of the squad at regular times and then also at the manager.

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"you all"? Generalise if you wish Eddie but it'll make you look stupid if you take it too far. Most England fans are rational enough, it's typical that the most fickle seem to tar all the rest.

Edited January 24, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Mr Maureen]

  Eddie said:

What happens if England win the world cup?

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We all take 12 months off work and get drunk every day

[Eddie]

  FourLaneBlue said:

"you all"? Generalise if you wish Eddie but it'll make you look stupid if you take it too far. Most England fans are rational enough, it's typical that the most fickle seem to tar all the rest.

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Ok. I change it to the media and everyone who makes any loud noises and the fact that the public do little to change it.

[Eddie]

Watching this press conference I can't help but feel sorry for the man.

[joey_big_nose]

  RevidgeBlue said:

joey, out of interest, since Sven's been in charge do you think we've performed better, worse, or about the same than should have been expected given the players we've had available over that period?

Take out the 5-1 game in Munich and I can't find much in the "better" category.

It's generally "about the same" with a liberal sprinkling of  "worse" along the way. Especially when the chips are down.

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We have won the games we have been expected to win (and one that we weren't in the shape of Argentina in 2002)and lost the games we have expected to lose. The draw against Portugal was a fair result, the sides were evenly matched (plus Portugal had home advantage and Rooney went off injured).

Sven certainly hasn't excelled as manager but he has been steady and decent. We are not even guaranteed steady and decent with any of the likes of Curbishley and Allerdyce and the situation is made even more difficult if they only have six months and a few games to get it right.

Have you considered that Curbishley or Alledyce could just be a disaster at the job? It is a very real posibility- no experience, no time, never worked at that level, never managed against South American teams who use different tactics, never been in charge of genuine superstar players.

I think a lot of people are mistaking Sven not being brilliant with him being a failure- failures, gentleman, are characters in the mold of Keegan and Taylor, not manager who get the national team to quater finals in major competitions where the quality of the squad indicated that was exactly where we should get.

Now if there was a candidate who did look like he was brilliant then I would be out with you guys too merrily calling for Svens head. But, sadly, there just isn't. The only English managers who have won a single trophy (happy to be proved wrong on this) in the last ten years are McClaren (and his expensive looking side appears like it is going to go very close to relegation), Royle (now managing Ipswich Town in the Championship) and Brian Little (now at Tranmere).

Not brilliant.

[rog of the rovers]

Top 25 English Managers (In order of league position)

1. Paul Jewell (Wigan 6th in Premiership)

2. Sam Allardyce (Bolton 7th in Premiership)

3. Alan Pardew (West Ham 9th in Premiership)

4. Stuart Pearce (Man City 10th in Premiership)

5. Alan Curbishley (Charlton 11th in Premiership)

6. Bryan Robson (West Brom 15th in Premierhip)

7. Steve McLaren (Middlesbrough 17th in Premiership)

8. Steve Bruce (Birmingham 18th in Premiership)

9. Harry Redknapp (Portsmouth 19th in Premiership)

10. Mick McCarthy (Sunderland 20th in Premiership)

11. Steve Coppell (Reading 1st in Championship)

12. Neil Warnock (Sheffield United 2nd in Championship)

13. Kevin Blackwell (Leeds 3rd in Championship)

14. Ade Boothroyd (Watford 4th in Championship)

15. Glenn Hoddle (Wolverhampton 8th in Championship)

16. Mike Newell (Luton 9th in Championship)

17. Steve Cotterill (Burnley 10th in Championship)

18. Nigel Worthington (Norwich 11th in Championship)

19. Ian Holloway (QPR 12th in Championship)

20. Joe Royle (Ipswich 14th in Championship)

21. Micky Adams (Coventry 15th in Championship)

22. Peter Taylor (Hull 17th in Championship)

23. Phil Brown (Derby 18th in Championship)

24. Tony Pullis (Plymouth 19th in Championship)

25. David Tuttle (Millwall 23rd in Championship)