[Archived] Pedersen Needs Converting!

[Duff's Minder]

MGP is not a striker and never will be. What he is is one of the most talented wide-midfielders in the league.

What does he have to do to get recognition? It's not as if he's on some kind of flukey run, he got 9 or ten goals playing half a season last year and he's got the same amount in the first half of this season. Yes, he does not impose himself physically on the game the way some do and yes he goes quiet but his passing, work-rate and finishing are top rate and his goal-scoring from midfield is absolutely outstanding! Apart from Lampard and Pires who regularly scores 15-20 goals a season from midfield?

It's Savage/Reid/Tugay's job to dominate it's MGP's job to make the difference when we are struggling to break teams down. Something he does with remarkable frequency.

All this talk about what MGP needs to do to perform at the highest level is a bit weird, be thankful he's not quicker or stronger because if he was he'd be with Duffer in Chelsea's reserves by now. As it is we have a player that might be able to perform for us for many years to come.

[EIEIEIO]

All this talk about what MGP needs to do to perform at the highest level is a bit weird, be thankful he's not quicker or stronger because if he was he'd be with Duffer in Chelsea's reserves by now. As it is we have a player that might be able to perform for us for many years to come.

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What are we concluding then? Rovers players should perform well but not too well, otherwise Chelsea will come in and steal them away?

F*%kin' lunatic

[colin]

call me Gamst

[andy82]

Did Beardsley start out as a winger???

I think its more likely people are converted the other way, as a lot of kids seem to go into academies as strikers and come out as wingers and midfielders, even defenders. 3

[The Dart]

Duff did a decent job for ROI as a striker as did Giggs for Wales.

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Personally I thought Duff was woeful up front. His pace and dribbling skills suddenly becoming as useful as a umbrella in a shower of bricks.

[LeChuck]

This 'converting' talk is absolutely crazy in my opinion.

Countless goal-scoring midfielders have been tried up-front (with some already mentioned in this topic), what they all have in common is none of their strike-rates increased at all.

Put Pedersen up-front and we lose 10 or more goals a season from midfield that we simply can not replace without buying someone else. But then if we're doing that, why not just buy a striker in the first place?

[ihateburnley]

call me Gamst

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Always thought 'Gamst' seems a pretty level-headed lad. I think he still has a long way to go, and he certainly isn't the finished article that some people on here are pointing out!

However, he's only 23, he's already a major star in Norway, and he seems to be constantly improving. When a player seems naturally able to get goals, then they will always have the basic needs of a forward sorted!

[ihateburnley]

This 'converting' talk is absolutely crazy in my opinion.

Countless goal-scoring midfielders have been tried up-front (with some already mentioned in this topic), what they all have in common is none of their strike-rates increased at all.

Put Pedersen up-front and we lose 10 or more goals a season from midfield that we simply can not replace without buying someone else.  But then if we're doing that, why not just buy a striker in the first place?

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WHAT?!?

I agree with you about not putting Pedersen up front - I just don't think he's a striker.

What I do disagree with is how can you claim "we will lose goals from midfield". Goals are goals and I can't see how it matters where they come from! Pedersen COULD score more than our other strikers put together in a more attacking role, so how would it matter if we lost goals from midfield? As long as we create chances then we're laughing really because at the end of the day it's about whether or not you have the quality of players to FINISH off moves at one end, and defend at the other.

[LeChuck]

What I do disagree with is how can you claim "we will lose goals from midfield". Goals are goals and I can't see how it matters where they come from! Pedersen COULD score more than our other strikers put together in a more attacking role, so how would it matter if we lost goals from midfield? As long as we create chances then we're laughing really because at the end of the day it's about whether or not you have the quality of players to FINISH off moves at one end, and defend at the other.

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At the rate he's going he will get more than 10 goals this season from midfield, do you really think he's a 20 goal a season player up-front? Like I said, when it's been tried with other goal-scoring midfielders (Scholes, Ljungberg, Giggs, Duff...) they haven't hit the back of the net more than when they were in midfield. I see no reason why this should be different for Pedersen given that his speciality seems to be timing his runs from deep.

As for the 'goals are goals' thing...no, they're not. All our strikers are scoring at a decent rate this season, even Kuqi will get past the 10 mark if played regularly, it's not like last season where we couldn't get goals from our strikers. I see no reason why Pedersen would score more than Bellamy/Kuqi/Bentley/Dickov (when fit).

Put simply, with Pedersen in midfield and two strikers up-front, we have three genuine goal-scoring threats. Put Pedersen up top and Peter/Emerton on the left and we are reduced to a mere two. Not really rocket science is it?

[bazza]

We must make the most of Gamst, fellow Rovers fans. Enjoy him while we can, just as we did "the boy, Duff".

If he continues to score such wonder goals we'll not be able to hold onto him.

Back on topic, leave him as a midfielder.

[Duff's Minder]

What are we concluding then? Rovers players should perform well but not too well, otherwise Chelsea will come in and steal them away?

F*%kin' lunatic

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That's exactly what I mean. When someone comes along who is obviously top-class these days they get bought. Look at Walcott or Rooney. In the current climate there is no way Duff would have been with us as long as he was.

As soon as a player starts standing out too much he will become a transfer target, what teams like Rovers need to do is build a squad of good pros that work well together. If we become reliant on one or two players we are screwed when the inevitable bid comes in for them.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

That's exactly what I mean. When someone comes along who is obviously top-class these days they get bought. Look at Walcott or Rooney. In the current climate there is no way Duff would have been with us as long as he was.

As soon as a player starts standing out too much he will become a transfer target, what teams like Rovers need to do is build a squad of good pros that work well together. If we become reliant on one or two players we are screwed when the inevitable bid comes in for them.

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What absolute rubbish. Players like Duff/MGP/Dunn are what attracts the fans - and make us feel as though we could one day break the top 4 monopoly.

I agree about the reliance - but all teams will play to their strengths - as we obviously did when we had Duff.

We have a far better chance hanging on to players being a Premiership club. I doubt Walcott would have moved on so quickly if Southampton hadn't been relegated and were thus open to the best deal they could get.

Aside from every fans dreams for better things for Rovers - there is the hard cash aspect to it. I like Reid as a player - but I doubt anyone would pay £17m for him - but he is exactly the type of player you are saying we should rely on. Picking up or developing that one exceptional player - and then eventually selling them on, is what Rovers are reliant on in the post Jack era

[Duff's Minder]

I'm not saying I don't want great players to play for Rovers but I think there is an advantage when a player is not the complete package. Someone like Letissier at Southampton who had fantastic skills that entertained the crowds and won matches for years without attracting too much attention from the big clubs because his game had obvious flaws. Scott Sellers was pretty much the same for us, a really good player who was never quite good enough to get the big clubs attention.

I think Gamst comes into the same category because of his lack of pace and strength we could be watching him bang in spectacular goals for years to come. If he was the next Henry we'd just end up selling him and buying a load more Barry Ferguson's!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Though the Duff money paid for Fergie, lets not forget :-

1. It helped to pay of a chunk of Rovers debt

2. Fergie was sold on - the money being used to pay for Savage

3. It also paid for Reid

Your logic also assumes that if MH unearthed another £17m player that he would waste it as GS did.

I don't want to see MGP leave - and agree with your assesment that he isn't in the Chelsea/United league YET. But the way forward for the club is perfectly illustrated by our current position - i.e. we hold onto MGP for another season, continue to develop Peter, and then sell MGP for maximum profit (IF appropriate). Obviously we will struggle to do this in all positions - but this is the best way for the club to continue to develop.

The biggest problem with Duff was that we didn't have a suitable youngster coming through - and Souey decided to spend some of the money on a right footed, left winger.

[T4E]

Put simply, with Pedersen in midfield and two strikers up-front, we have three genuine goal-scoring threats.  Put Pedersen up top and Peter/Emerton on the left and we are reduced to a mere two.  Not really rocket science is it?

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Says it all really. Complete no-brainer.

[Eddie]

The Duff money didn't pay for Reid. Hadn't we already bought Reid at that point?

[S15]

The Duff money didn't pay for Reid. Hadn't we already bought Reid at that point?

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Think we got Reid just after Duff left but I'm pretty sure that was just down to timing; I'm pretty certain Reid would have signed regardless of Duffs' situation.

[joey_big_nose]

Think we got Reid just after Duff left but I'm pretty sure that was just down to timing; I'm pretty certain Reid would have signed regardless of Duffs' situation.

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I was pretty sure we only bought Reid after Duff went and because he had gone. Emerton was the player who came anyway.

I have never understood where all that 22 million went. 7 for Ferguson, 1.5 for Reid, 1.5 for Amoruso still leaves 12. I think paying off a loan was the prevalent theory?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I was pretty sure we only bought Reid after Duff went and because he had gone. Emerton was  the player who came anyway.

I have never understood where all that 22 million went. 7 for Ferguson, 1.5 for Reid, 1.5 for Amoruso still leaves 12. I think paying off a loan was the prevalent theory?

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I presume that the £22m you are referring to includes Dunns money - I thought the majority of that had gone on Emo and Amo. The Duff (and remainder of Dunn) money went on Fergie £7m ish and Reid (I think Millwall got £2.5m out of us). This left (apparently) £8m to pay off some of the debt. Though that £8m would come in handly now - just gotta be grateful they didn't give it all to Souness to waste

[Esulx]

RFW's hesitancy is our gain!!!

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=35...+GAMST+INTEREST

[joey_big_nose]

I'm not saying I don't want great players to play for Rovers but I think there is an advantage when a player is not the complete package. Someone like Letissier at Southampton who had fantastic skills that entertained the crowds and won matches for years without attracting too much attention from the big clubs because his game had obvious flaws. Scott Sellers was pretty much the same for us, a really good player who was never quite good enough to get the big clubs attention.

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That is precisely the sort of player Tugay is. Absolutely brilliant except when he isn't and then he is awful!

If he was consistently playing like he had been recently he would of been playing for Milan or Utd or Barcelona years ago and we woul dnever of got a sniff.

Similar case with Bellamy. If he didn't have his temper he wouldn't be at Rovers.

[herbergeehh]

I presume that the £22m you are referring to includes Dunns money - I thought the majority of that had gone on Emo and Amo. The Duff (and remainder of Dunn) money went on Fergie £7m ish and Reid (I think Millwall got £2.5m out of us). This left (apparently) £8m to pay off some of the debt. Though that £8m would come in handly now - just gotta be grateful they didn't give it all to Souness to waste 

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Don't forget the silly, silly money Ferguson, Amoruso, Emerton and a few others probably got- Souness is famous for splashing out money to get his man after all.

[ihateburnley]

Though the Duff money paid for Fergie, lets not forget :-

1. It helped to pay of a chunk of Rovers debt

2. Fergie was sold on - the money being used to pay for Savage

3. It also paid for Reid

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1. Can this be proven? Has the debt been 'totally' cleared? Aren't the Trust Fund constantly loaning us money, therefore we will always be in debt?

2. Ferguson was sold on at a loss, therefore it did not pay for Savage.

3. I believe Reid was going to be signed regardless.

We must be saving some money for a rainy day. Even if it's a couple of million, no doubt the Rovers board/trust will make these funds available when/if we become seriously involved in a relegation dogfight?

[ihateburnley]

Put Pedersen up top and Peter/Emerton on the left and we are reduced to a mere two.  Not really rocket science is it?

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Not too sure how you make that presumption LeChuck. Surely we haven't seen enough of Sergio Peter to presume that he won't get as many goals as Pedersen?

I just think if required, playing Peter on the wing and Pedersen up front, gives us a fresh look and seems more attractive than playing Kuqi up top to no avail. Obviously if we sign another striker then this theory should be ignored!

[LeChuck]

Not too sure how you make that presumption LeChuck. Surely we haven't seen enough of Sergio Peter to presume that he won't get as many goals as Pedersen?

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You really think Peter could come in and be one of THE top midfield goalscorers in the league? That's what Pedersen is right now, that's what he has to live up to.