[Archived] More Madness From Mcclaren

[Wolverine]

I heard David Platt was asked to take on the England job, but he turned it down. He has already committed to Coronation Street.

Ba dum.

Anyhow, thanks to Cocker, I have been singing @#/? 'No Limits' by 2Unlimited all bloody day...

Give the job to Shearer. He can't be any worse, and maybe he will command the respect of his players if he can be as emotive as he was last night.

PS: What about Adrian Boothroyd? Before he came to Watford, they were in dire straits. OK, they didn't set the Prem on fire last season, but they are a team playing beyond potential.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Wolverine

[speeeeeeedie]

The Germans appointed Klinsmann who had no prior experience, and look what he did. As long as Shearer has a decent coach next to him he'll be fine as he'll have the repsoect of the dressing room.

If were not going home grown I'd have Capello. I'd actually take anyone who can make them play as a team right now. Roll on 2010.

I bother more about England than Rovers, I guess it's the familiarity and where I live.

[gumboots]

You must be one of the few. Most fans over here are now far more concerned about their club, whoever they support. That's not to say they wouldn't like to support England but it's not the same excitement as a good game at Ewood or any game that sees Rovers winning gives you.

[broadsword]

Just a minute I've just had a thought that would explain it .......... Does the selection process involve writing all applicants names onto balls and picking them out of a black bag?

I don't know ... but I think the word "balls" features somewhere ...

[Paul]

I am also becoming suspicious of this whole "International Break" thing. While it is good to be able to work with the players for a time I wonder if it is seen by the players as just that, a break. A bit of a holiday camp, players get in a bit of a relaxed state without the day to day pressure and focus of the Prem and it is hard to just switch it back on.

I feel it also has a detrimental influence on club football for the players, the fans and the club in general. Look at Rovers. We've been flying, interest is on the up, then we get almost a whole month between home games (if Villa wasn't re-arranged it would be a month) followed by 4 home games in 22 days. For anyone planning away trips we have 6 games in 26 days. it's just plain daft and all so a second-rate England team can have a meaningless get together. For Rovers it would be far better if those games were spread evenly throughout November and December. Interest would be maintained, the players would be in the groove of playing an winning etc.

[Wolverine]

I don't know if this is the same for anyone else, but it doesn't feel like I am supporting England when they play - more like supporting an ugly hybrid of the top four.

I only watch England now if I get the heads up that Bentley will be involved or if it is important (like last night). Now, I don't expect a Rovers player to be involved all the time, but I am tired of seeing the usual suspects playing poorly - as if the management team are expecting Gerrard and Lampard to suddenly click one day.

I really don't agree with playing someone who rarely features for their club should be in the England squad. Wayne Bridge only has only made 5 appearances, two in the league. SWP, Crouch, Defoe, Bent - all players who should be playing football week in week out, yet they can't cement a first team place.

England's shortcomings are often blamed on the influx of foreigners, or the stifling of English talent by mangers. Well, here are five players stifling thier own talent by remaining on the substantial payroll of a club assisting them to become stale. I am of the opinion that what is crippling the beautiful game is in fact money. Far more money flying around than football being played for my liking.

I don't know what the solution is, perhaps only allow eligibility for the England squad if you have started a certain percentage of games you were available for? Who knows?

As it stands, I can't motivate myself to support a team made up of underachievers from enemy teams. Bentley accepted, of course - and I hope the next manager has the ###### to give players like Bentley, Young and Agbonlahor a fair crack at it. After all, it isn't like we have anything worth playing for, is it?

[USABlue]

I bother more about England than Rovers, I guess it's the familiarity and where I live.

You must be one of the few. Most fans over here are now far more concerned about their club, whoever they support. That's not to say they wouldn't like to support England but it's not the same excitement as a good game at Ewood or any game that sees Rovers winning gives you.

speedie has a point, absence makes the heart and all that. Not that England are closer to me than Rovers but they do seem a lot closer to my heart than they used to.

[USABlue]

PS: What about Adrian Boothroyd? Before he came to Watford, they were in dire straits. OK, they didn't set the Prem on fire last season, but they are a team playing beyond potential.

Based on what he has done at Watford that's not a bad shout, the man certainley has the passion about him. He's gelled a bunch of mis-fits there, oodles of fire and personality. Somehow I think his lack of top flight experience will rule him out, beside I sort of have my eye on the guy for next boss of Rovers when Hughes moves on.

[RevidgeBlue]

As it stands, I can't motivate myself to support a team made up of underachievers from enemy teams. Bentley accepted, of course - and I hope the next manager has the ###### to give players like Bentley, Young and Agbonlahor a fair crack at it. After all, it isn't like we have anything worth playing for, is it?

Absolutely spot on. Thought I was on my own on this.

I was passionate about England say when we were in the old third Division, and that was the only top flight football available as a "fan"

Now, I spend most of the season hating Beckham, Gerrard, Cole (A and J) or whoever with a passion when they play for one of the "big four", yet all of a sudden I'm meant to love them as soon as they pull a white shirt on?

Nowhere near the same for me.

Edited November 23, 2007 by RevidgeBlue

[thenodrog]

I was passionate about England say when we were in the old third Division, and that was the only top flight football available as a "fan"

Now, I spend most of the season hating Beckham, Gerrard, Cole (A and J) or whoever with a passion when they play for one of the "big four", yet all of a sudden I'm meant to love them as soon as they pull a white shirt on?

Nowhere near the same for me.

Don't forget the age factor Rev.

[RevidgeBlue]

I spent some of tonight listening to Ray Houghton on the radio going on about a favourite theme of his, how English players technically aren't good enough and in particular can't retain possession.

Whilst that argument might have some merit, does that explain why Steven Gerrard looks a world beater in a Liverpool shirt, and invariably carries a poor side on his shoulders singlehandedly, yet looked as though he'd never seen a football last night?

The same could be said on the night to a greater or lesser degree of Campbell, Richards, Bridge, Lampard, and Cole.

Crouch being an honourable exception imo.

Anyone any thoughts?

[philipl]

Simple Rev; the players thought McClaren was an idiot and behaved like any workers do when they have zero confidence in the boss. At Liverpool, Gerard is expected to regularly bail another half-baked manager out of the doodah and does so but the other players' egos get in the way of him fulfilling that role for England.

There was a revealing scatter diagram from opta of the positioning of Gerard, Barry and Lampard on the pitch in their last full England games before Croatia. Gerard and Barry had clear midfield focus whereas Lampard's map looked like a headless chicken had been let loose- his colleagues wouldn't have had a clue where he was and any instinctive half-look passes to Lampard completely ruled out.

If you watch teams that are good at getting and retaining the ball, there is usually a predictable formation of potential receivers relative to the player in posession/opposition player to be disposessed. It allows for the glanced look out-ball which creates the sort of fluidity of movement which the ponderous stop and look for options characterising England's play always lacks. That sort of pressure play formation has never been an aspect of McClaren's approach whether at Boro or at England.

With Man U, watch the concertina-ing 4-4-2 formation with players running onto the ball when they are in posession or attacking the opposition player in posession in waves but invariably in a forwards momentum. At Arsenal it is the close proximity diagonal ball played rapidly and instinctively which to my eyes is the style Sparky is trying to emulate at Rovers and is the reason why Rovers in full flow this season are such a joy to watch. At Chelsea it was the rigorous defensive/ cautious set-up of Mourinho which made them so hard to beat combined by great timing of midfield runs primarilly executed by Lampard.

With England's McClaren, it was basically lucky dip time on the basics sacrificed to his latest complex theory of multi-level formation.

Anyway looks like the Rafa rotator could be very close to the Liverpool exit door. Roar won't be happy but its as plain as the nose on Phil Thompson's face that Rafa will never win the Premiership for Liverpool. He'd be a disaster in the England job as well.

There is a poll on Brian Barwick's future in the Guardian as well. 97% say he should go.

Quite a divergence in the poress this morning- Telegraph says O'Neill is getting ready to take the England job. Times says O'Neill has ruled himself out.

Edited November 23, 2007 by philipl

[CAPT KAYOS]

Absolutely spot on. Thought I was on my own on this.

I was passionate about England say when we were in the old third Division, and that was the only top flight football available as a "fan"

Now, I spend most of the season hating Beckham, Gerrard, Cole (A and J) or whoever with a passion when they play for one of the "big four", yet all of a sudden I'm meant to love them as soon as they pull a white shirt on?

Nowhere near the same for me.

Certainly not on your own Rev - note the flags at England games in the past and still nowadays - probably the reason why you see more of the lower league club fans at the games Rev.

If you watch teams that are good at getting and retaining the ball, there is usually a predictable formation of potential receivers relative to the player in posession/opposition player to be disposessed. It allows for the glanced look out-ball which creates the sort of fluidity of movement which the ponderous stop and look for options characterising England's play always lacks. That sort of pressure play formation has never been an aspect of McClaren's approach whether at Boro or at England.

Philip - you mean exactly like Croatia where - this is the point I have made re the 5 in midfield malarkey - Rovers where the same when we played it - maybe not as stagant but certainly not fluid. I never see the point when you should supposedly be the dominant ( home side) and to me the 5 man across midfield should only be adopted if you are away from home and needs must ) and never use in an important game if palyers are not used to it!!

Interestingly, listening to Radio Lancs somebody else said what I have posted about players not having the intelligence to take a game by the scruff of the neck and are just waiting for orders from the touchline - which is why they always look clueless

[Ronin]

Anyone hear what Craig Johnston was saying on SSN this morning?

His comments about nurturing the grass-roots level and on other things were spot on and totally agree with him. Not had a look, but it might be mentioned on the Sky Sports web?

[philipl]

England have lost their World Cup Qualifying Group seeding

I wonder what sort of a fist England would make of being in a Group with France, Italy and Ukraine like Sctland were?

[savage8]

I don't know if this is the same for anyone else, but it doesn't feel like I am supporting England when they play - more like supporting an ugly hybrid of the top four.

I only watch England now if I get the heads up that Bentley will be involved or if it is important (like last night). Now, I don't expect a Rovers player to be involved all the time, but I am tired of seeing the usual suspects playing poorly - as if the management team are expecting Gerrard and Lampard to suddenly click one day.

I really don't agree with playing someone who rarely features for their club should be in the England squad. Wayne Bridge only has only made 5 appearances, two in the league. SWP, Crouch, Defoe, Bent - all players who should be playing football week in week out, yet they can't cement a first team place.

England's shortcomings are often blamed on the influx of foreigners, or the stifling of English talent by mangers. Well, here are five players stifling thier own talent by remaining on the substantial payroll of a club assisting them to become stale. I am of the opinion that what is crippling the beautiful game is in fact money. Far more money flying around than football being played for my liking.

I don't know what the solution is, perhaps only allow eligibility for the England squad if you have started a certain percentage of games you were available for? Who knows?

As it stands, I can't motivate myself to support a team made up of underachievers from enemy teams. Bentley accepted, of course - and I hope the next manager has the ###### to give players like Bentley, Young and Agbonlahor a fair crack at it. After all, it isn't like we have anything worth playing for, is it?

Great post Wolverine, fully value all of your points there.

Interesting to hear SSN confirm that Bentley has returned to training feeling down after his 2 weeks with England, and the same for Gamst returning from being with the Norway squad. It must be hard for young English players, like Bentley, being involved in such a desperate situation. They know they have something to give, but are not given the opportunity (giving these players 30-45 mins doesn't suffice) to do so. I have nothing to suggest to rectify the problem. Just hope it doesn't have a detrimental effect on Bentley...I fear it may well have knocked his confidence. But I think he'll grow from this, he's got good people around him (Apologies for the Sounessism), and he will get his chance to take the England 7 shirt. Go get em boy !

[up and rover]

Anyone hear what Craig Johnston was saying on SSN this morning?

His comments about nurturing the grass-roots level and on other things were spot on and totally agree with him. Not had a look, but it might be mentioned on the Sky Sports web?

It's on the sky front page now, and it is probably the best piece of commentary on the present state of our football I have seen, it is a must watch.

It's amazing how an aussie can be so passionate about english football, yet 11 players playing for us can't.

[philipl]

Tossack weighs in

[Hasta]

It's amazing how an aussie can be so passionate about english football, yet 11 players playing for us can't.

I don't buy this 'the 11 players don't care' business. Watching the game on Wednesday I do believe that most care. I just believe that we weren't a good enough team. Crouch cared. Campbell and Beckham care but they're past it. Wayne Bridge may well have cared but crumbled under the pressure and put in an absolute shocker. We also have no evidence that to an extent Lescott and Richards also couldnt handle the occasion and were found to be not good enough. I'm pretty sure none of the came off the pitch not caring.

The main focus is the gruesome twosome of Lampard and Gerrard. Two figureheads of the England team. Two supposed world class stars. However they never contribute their club form for their country. Why. I don't know but for the first time I found Gerrards comments before and after the game almost false.

Joe Cole is one that I can't make my mind up on. As a player and a person I find him an obnoxious diver. However he can commit and go past opposition defenders. He's also fairly mobile. On the left wing he is being wasted. Before moving to Chelsea he was an attacking central midfielder. It would be interesting to see what he could do there. Unfortunately there are 'irreplacables' in that position for both Chelsea and England.

[den]

The main focus is the gruesome twosome of Lampard and Gerrard. Two figureheads of the England team. Two supposed world class stars. However they never contribute their club form for their country.

The reason why these two can never play together, is that neither of them can play the short, clever passing game, in the centre of the park, that all the better international sides can. Gerrard is all about big strides, getting up and down the pitch. Lampard does neither.

[Hughesy]

Plenty of young talent available in the prem teams alone. See below the players who have a good number of years left yet and will improve with experience.

Green

Carson

Robinson

Foster

Joe Hart

Micah Richards

Glen Johnson

Adrian Pettigrew (Chelsea)

Baines

Dawson (24)

Anton Ferdinand (22)

Steven Taylor – Newcastle (21)

Ashley Young

Bentley

Michael Johnson

Lennon (20)

Walcott

Craig Gardner (Villa)

Pennant

Huddleston (Spurs)

Mark Noble?? (West Ham) - 20

Rooney

Bent

Agbonlahor

Ashton

Luke Moore

Vaughan

Derbyshire?

[Jan]

England have lost their World Cup Qualifying Group seeding

I wonder what sort of a fist England would make of being in a Group with France, Italy and Ukraine like Sctland were?

Well, seeing as how they got fewer points in a group which involved those sporting giants Macedonia and Israel than we did against the world champions, world cup runners up and a quarter finalist..............................

[BlueMonday]

Well, seeing as how they got fewer points in a group which involved those sporting giants Macedonia and Israel than we did against the world champions, world cup runners up and a quarter finalist..............................

tt

.............Its merely a matter of time before you qualify for another major finals!

[Ronin]

Hopefully the sooner the better. Will see if the World Cup draw on Sunday does us any favours this time?! Would be nice for a change.

[American]

There is a poll on Brian Barwick's future in the Guardian as well. 97% say he should go.

The other 3% are Scottish....