[Archived] More Madness From Mcclaren

[mac]

http://www.sack-steve-mcclaren.co.uk/

85% think its time to get shut

[tchocky]

Sometimes you have to question that FIFA ranking. I mean, I never claimed Norway was a good footballing nation, but they are 50th....! While Uzbekistan are 45th... Scotland 26th....

[T4E]

When was the last time Norway beat France?

[AggyBlue]

Sometimes you have to question that FIFA ranking. I mean, I never claimed Norway was a good footballing nation, but they are 50th....! While Uzbekistan are 45th... Scotland 26th....

Scotland 26th ! They must have missed a one before the two

[modes98]

The guy is a joke, his decisions are worse than sven's were and it proves that you shouldn't appoint a manager simply because of his nationality. The FA weren't prepared to wait for Big Phil and it's costing us.

[M-K]

Apart from the times we've been cheated out of major competitions.

Spoken like a true England fan. The popular misconception that England is somehow destined to win every tournament, only to be cheated out of it by greasy old Carlos Kickaball and his diving chums, is one of the reasons you're not seeing the truth.

I can't recall England ever being cheated out of a major competition. Argentina in 1986 were by far the better team, as they proved by going on to win it and reach the next final, too. Besides, if there was a lingering injustice to be balanced then we evened the score when Owen dived them out of 2002.

Germany winning on penalties in 1990? Sweden not rolling over in 1992? Not being allowed to play in 1994? Carvalho sneakily putting his pods under Rooney's boot last time?

When has England ever been cheated out of a tournament?

[RoyRover]

Spoken like a true England fan. The popular misconception that England is somehow destined to win every tournament, only to be cheated out of it by greasy old Carlos Kickaball and his diving chums, is one of the reasons you're not seeing the truth.

I can't recall England ever being cheated out of a major competition. Argentina in 1986 were by far the better team, as they proved by going on to win it and reach the next final, too. Besides, if there was a lingering injustice to be balanced then we evened the score when Owen dived them out of 2002.

Germany winning on penalties in 1990? Sweden not rolling over in 1992? Not being allowed to play in 1994? Carvalho sneakily putting his pods under Rooney's boot last time?

When has England ever been cheated out of a tournament?

Greasy old Carlos Kickaball and his diving chums! Excellent. I totally agree with your post as well. Only deluded England fans believe that they have been cheated out of tournaments, while the other sensible ones and the rest of the world see it for what it really is; England aren't that good. A few world class players, lots of good players and a poor team.

Edited February 8, 2007 by RoyRover

[joey_big_nose]

Greasy old Carlos Kickaball and his diving chums! Excellent. I totally agree with your post as well. Only deluded England fans believe that they have been cheated out of tournaments, while the other sensible ones and the rest of the world see it for what it really is; England aren't that good. A few world class players, lots of good players and a poor team.

Well I agree with the sentiment that England over hype themselves, but I wouldn't say we are not good enough to win the WC or EC. We are the equal of the likes of Italy who won it last year, better than the German side who reached the final in 2002. While player for player we lack the talent of Brazil or Argentina I don't really think it is an issue of quality. Italy lacked the talent of Brazil and Argentina yet prevaled. Greece managed to win Euro 2004 without a single world class player.

It is a case of building a team which plays to our strengths, understands itself and is a unit. This is the conundrum. Not getting more world class players. We have a few, we have enough, and the rest of our squad is very good.

[speeeeeeedie]

When has England ever been cheated out of a tournament?

Never as not one of them can take a decent penalty. What has hurt is the constant nearly's that have occurred over the 20 years I've really followed England.

1986: We were never going to win against a rampant Maradona in a hot South American country but Maradona's hand ball gives folk all the ammunition they need still today.

1988: Shocking.

1990: Semi Final, unlucky. We missed penalties. But people argue that Gazza lost his head after Buchwald dived and got him booked.

1992: Shocking.

1994: We didn't even make it, very shocking.

1996: Should have won on home soil, but we can't score penalties. Another semi-final exit. people forget that we were very lucky to beat Spain on penalties. We lived for years off the demolition of the Dutch.

1998: Second round exit. Beckham sent off and Campbell having a perfectly good goal disallowed for jumping near to their soft keeper= cheated. Again we can't score from 12 yards. Verdict, we were hard done by but not cheated, but we'd never have beaten France or Brazil.

2000: Shocking. But we beat the Germans.

2002: We made it through the group of death, boring the other teams out. Murdered the hopeless Danes, then played like dog dirt and got beat off 10 man Brazil (the eventual winners) thanks to Beckham dodging out of a tackle, a Seaman special, and inept play.

2004: The diving, faking, cheating Portuguese put us out on their home soil on penalties after Campbell had a perfectly good goal disallowed for jumping near to their soft keeper = cheated. Again we can't score from the spot and we had flapper James in goal. We would have bored ourselves out in the next round anyway.

2006: Such promise, but such awful boring football. We were robbed because the diving, faking, cheating Portuguese had Rooney sent off then proceeded to try to not concede rather than score because they knew that they would score more penalties than us. England knew that too, that's why they tried to play attacking football. However it all went south when Lampard, the bloke with the most shots in the WC, stepped up scared as hell and missed again.

We have at times been on the wrong end of refereeing decisions, but the only facts are that England never score more goals than the opposition during the game to win, and as a result it goes to penalties where we are useless. England have some good players, but have some that are not up to it. To compensate for that we need a strong united team spirit and dogged coaching. Unforunately we do not have that, and will not for a long time yet as the media and inter club rivalries amongst players takes a bigger precedent in this country.

[Bing]

Heard off two different people on different sites about some tension in the England ranks. Obviously unsubstantiated but I'd love it if it was true. Copy and paste job:

Lampard is being a right tit about Barton being in the squad, won't talk to him, pass to him, all that stuff, and just got up to move to another table at breakfast when Barton sat at the same one. Apparently as soon as he stood up and moved, Barton called after him "Don't worry, I wasn't going to nick your breakfast you fat prick" and Lampard threw a hissy fit and stormed out.

[Billy Castell]

That wuld be funny if true. Barton has gone up in my estimation after his comments. About time someone called the emporer an exhibitionist.

[blue phil]

England have some good players, but have some that are not up to it. To compensate for that we need a strong united team spirit and dogged coaching. Unforunately we do not have that, and will not for a long time yet as the media and inter club rivalries amongst players takes a bigger precedent in this country.

It's depressing that the one manager (imo) emminently qualified to sort out our overpaid bunch of prima donnas into an organised team wanted the job but wasn't given it . Apparently his interview didn't go too well - obviously didn't use the word "yes" enough....

Hopefully Martin O'Neill's time may yet come ........very soon with a bit of luck.

[thenodrog]

The never ending Lampard/ Gerrard debate...... Never play the pair of em but drop either and it will galvanise both.

[thenodrog]

Hopefully Martin O'Neill's time may yet come ........very soon with a bit of luck.

He's hardly tearing up trees in the Prem is he Phil?

[FourLaneBlue]

Has every manager England have had since Sir Alf been cack then? It seems that England managers are deemed failures if they don't win the major tournament that England are quite clearly entitled to. No one has managed it since '66 - and thats because every single one has been @#/??

Methinks not.

Hmmm....As for "It seems that England managers are deemed failures if they don't win the major tournament that England are quite clearly entitled to"...You know damn well Venables and Robson are lauded for getting us to semi finals so don't be such a drama queen.

Go on then...out of the four managers that I mentioned (actually I will take Sven back as I don't think he is cack and made qualifying for tournaments a formality) - but out of Keegan, Hoddle and Maclaren then can you name an England manager not covered in his own cackness?

Methinks not.

Edited February 9, 2007 by FourLaneBlue

[T4E]

I may not agree with what you say, but I enjoy the way you say it.

I don't think Sven was cack either, I'm glad you've said that. My reasoning is exactly as yours is - qualifying for tournaments was a formality in all instances under him. Unfortunately not all England fans can view this with the perspective that you do - qualifying is now seen as a right rather than the earned privilege that it should be.

The issue at hand is being slightly lost here - and its not an issue that purely effects fans of the English national side. All football fans will immediately look to blame the manager in times of crisis - because the manager is just 1 man, and can be sacked an replaced within days. It's a hell of a lot easier to bury your head in the sand than it is to look at the deeper issue, which is far more often the playing squad, and their lack of quality and/or bad attitudes.

Almost every England manager in my short lifetime has suffered this curse - it just amazes me that otherwise intelligent and rational people fail to see this when the subject of the national team arises.

[broadsword]

Hoddle was nowhere near as bad as Keegan or Mclaren.

[LDRover]

Hoddle was quite a good England manager sacked for non-footballing reasons. We may have performed poorly in the World Cup in 1998 but we were beaten by a very good Argentina (and with ten men for the majority). Added to that we actually won our qualifying group, over the Italians. I can remember us going to Italy and getting the draw we needed to qualify, it was a tactical master class by Glenda, but because of his aloofness towards the press he never really got the credit he deserved.

The people who go on about Venables ad nauseum (usually his buddies in the press) should remember the procession of boring 0-0 draws at home in friendlies against the likes of Columbia where we were utter pony. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread that side (1996) lived off the demolition of the in-fighting Dutch for years, conveniently forgetting the bore draw against the Swiss and a fortunate win against the tick tocks. If Gary Mac had any bottle we'd have struggled to win that one too.

As for England, let's face it, we're not very good. We've not won anything in my lifetime and I don't think I'll be taking a Euro Champs or World Cup win to my grave (unlike a Premiership and Worthy Cup win). What we as supporters have to do is admit this to ourselves and replace the false expectation with a small dose of optimism. Plus we can stop lining the bookies pockets at tournament time.

Mind you, Steve McLaren is hopeless. I find it funny when I see Ian Wright's exasperation at another abject performance yet he was the one demanding an English manager. A case of being careful what you wish for methinks.

Edited February 13, 2007 by LDRover

[FourLaneBlue]

Hoddle is a good coach whose managerial career has been bedevilled by his woeful man-management skills. Which means that while he may be a success for a while it won't last too long. Early promise at Chelsea and Spurs lead onto infighting and mediocrity and at Southampton he jumped shipped before he had time to make an arse of himself. Despite his recent failure at Wolves it does show with him having being linked with the France job that his tactical nous is well-known. Good coach bad manager I believe.

Yet McClaren (whose name I can rarely remember how to spell) supposedly is some tactical genius but certainly didn't display his stuff like a busy flasher in a raincoat might do. In fact it seems his tactical acumen is somewhat hidden away! During his last season at Middlesbrough, for example, he liked to wait until about three goals down with an hour of the tie left in Uefa games before going for all-out attack. Genius! Who on earth would have thought of a gung-ho attitude at that stage??? I mean, you know, apart from anyone relatively sane...

It's worth remembering that this time last year the Boro fans were shouting for his head and one fan was even chucking his season ticket at him during a particularly abysmal capitulation against Villa. The best description for the feelings of Boro fans at McClaren leaving would be...utter indifference.

Yet he is well regarded by the likes of Jim Smith and Alex Ferguson. There has to be something there. Changing the coach won't stop all the problems and turn the team into worldbeaters but getting in a quality manager will obviously help. Yet the FA refused to allow Martin O'Neill to bring in his own coaches with him (despite later bending over backwards to let in shifty old El Tel as Stevie Mac's guru or whatever he is) so that that, in the end, was that...

[Ricky]

I left on 75 minutes. It was rubbish

[Ozz]

Any decent class manager or coach with Ferdinand, Terry, A Cole, J Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney and Owen could win a tournament.

Except Sven.

[RovertheHill]

The issue at hand is being slightly lost here - and its not an issue that purely effects fans of the English national side. All football fans will immediately look to blame the manager in times of crisis - because the manager is just 1 man, and can be sacked an replaced within days. It's a hell of a lot easier to bury your head in the sand than it is to look at the deeper issue, which is far more often the playing squad, and their lack of quality and/or bad attitudes.

Almost every England manager in my short lifetime has suffered this curse - it just amazes me that otherwise intelligent and rational people fail to see this when the subject of the national team arises.

I don't think people do fail to see it.

A club manager has a responsibility for much more than just the footballing performance of his first team. He is often involved in coaching, scouting and buying players, selling players, youth policy, fitness, wage negotiations and a host of other things. Heck, I hear Wenger was even involved in the design of the facilities at the Emirates.

An international manager has 3 basic responsibilities. Selection. Preparation. Tactics. Therefore, more often that not, the buck stops with International Managers a lot quicker than club managers. I do not subscribe for one minute to the view that England players have a bad attitude or a lack of quality. Supporters of McClaren are the ones burying their heads in the sand by spouting that old chestnut. What I consider the England first team are all excellent players who play at the highest level and are very effective at what they do. Can they win a World Cup - with luck, possibly. Should they qualify for every major tournament and group stage. Absolutely. And they used to - the same players, different manager. Which of course rings us back to the manager. Preparation and tactics. I include motivation in preparation and frankly a wet blanket non-English manager appeared to be able to motivate FANS and players more than our current manager, which leaves tactics. And that appears to be our strategy - to leave tactics well alone.

So, blame the players all you want. But they're all we have so a better approach would be to get a manager who can get the best out of them. I think everyone knows that isn't the current incumbent.

[Fife Rover]

I may not agree with what you say, but I enjoy the way you say it.

I don't think Sven was cack either, I'm glad you've said that. My reasoning is exactly as yours is - qualifying for tournaments was a formality in all instances under him. Unfortunately not all England fans can view this with the perspective that you do - qualifying is now seen as a right rather than the earned privilege that it should be.

The issue at hand is being slightly lost here - and its not an issue that purely effects fans of the English national side. All football fans will immediately look to blame the manager in times of crisis - because the manager is just 1 man, and can be sacked an replaced within days. It's a hell of a lot easier to bury your head in the sand than it is to look at the deeper issue, which is far more often the playing squad, and their lack of quality and/or bad attitudes.

Almost every England manager in my short lifetime has suffered this curse - it just amazes me that otherwise intelligent and rational people fail to see this when the subject of the national team arises.

I almost agree with everything you are saying aboveT4E. But have to point out that although you may be right about the quality or attitude of the playing squad, it is ultimately the responsibility of the manager to manage these things and more. Therefore if there is a persistent problem in these areas, and the manager cannot resolve it satisfactorily in a reasonable time then there is nothing else for it; he HAS to go.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Fife Rover

[Mr. E]

the sooner England get rid of McClaren the better. He looks absolutely clueless and somehow the team looks even worse under him than under Sven.

[speeeeeeedie]

Getting rid of McClaren would only half solve the problem. We still have underperforming players, no natural team balance, nor a bonafide striker who can hold the ball and wait for reinforcements.

The sad facts are that we've not had a left sided midfielder since Waddle and Barnes. Barnes consistently underperformend for England as he claims he was made to do all the silly work he didn't have to do at Liverpool. Nor have we had a decent target man. Now I don't mean someone who can head the ball on from long balls, but someone who can get the ball into feet and bring in midfielders. Kuyt in today's game would be good. Earlier examples are Mark Hughes and Kenny Dalglish, both not the biggest but could hold and bring in others with their clever play. Most yonger English strikers around are the speedy type who like to get on the end of things. Could Dean Ashton do a job?

McClaren is widely repsected as being a good coach. We all know that it doesn't always translate into being a good manager. The England primadonnas need someone they can respect and at the same time be a bit scared of. Terry Butcher anyone? He's free.