[Archived] Have We Just Seen The New Maradona?

[AggyBlue]

So if Micheal Owen falls over in the penalty area to win the penalty that wins England the World cup, at the expense of the Argentinians or the Germans Aggyblue will be demanding that we give the cup back? I doubt it

386173[/snapback]

[Presty On Tour]

all this diving is just part of the game now.

they have tried to cut it all out by booking players for it but half the time the refs get it all wrong again, players do actually get fouled and then get booked or sent off for being hacked down because the ref's seen something else and thinks they are diving around.

i blame klinnsman(sp) for all this, an awsome player but at the italia 90 world cup he was rolling around doing summersaults and rolly pollies and its just copied on and stuck.

[AggyBlue]

i blame klinnsman(sp) for all this, an awsome player but at the italia 90 world cup he was rolling around doing summersaults and rolly pollies and its just copied on and stuck.

386192[/snapback]

Cryuff and Platini, great players as they were, both said in the late seventies that football should be a non-contact sport.

Both have held/hold powerful positions within football. Now their combined efforts aren't to far away from coming to fruition.

Trying to remove tackles from the game has seen the upturn in diving/cheating, The idea was to give attacking players protection. Now they are over protected and have become very adept at milking contact situations. They fall over at the slightest touch.

Shirt pulling, what's all that about. I played twenty odd years as a defender and can honestly say I never pulled at anyones shirt.

[Presty On Tour]

offsides, tackling, i think the only help defenders get these is at corners and freekicks. they get to actually get away with wwf bearhugs and strangle holds!!

[RovertheHill]

I've been saying for some time (years) that the win-at-all-odds mentality and pressure will be the ruination of football. Whatever happened to the Corinthian spirit? You hear things like "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". Well, frankly, winning at all costs isn't winning if it involves anything other than skill, effort and determination, and perhaps, a touch of good fortune. The only way to get the fairness back into the game is to make it harder to cheat and to make it unprofitable to cheat. How do you do this? Well, some suggestions, some easy, some hard, some radical

1) Shirt pulling. Everybody laughs it off but it's cheating. What about a footy shirt like the England backs shirts - skin tight and nothing to get hold off. Alternatively, shirts designed to rip easily - so if pulled it has little or no effect.

2) Players faking injury. If the Alan Smith injury shows us anything, it's that real injuries are obvious. Play should continue around the injured player (and physio) if necessary as it does in rugby

3) Diving. If Sky can edit every game down to an hour in less than 3 hours, each game can be assessed by a panel for diving, play-acting, cheating and general wussy behaviour. The panels should consist of a doctor, an ex-professional from the 80's and in all probability a rugby player. And teams should be docked points if found to be doing it.

Frankly, all the FA needs to do is inform clubs that they will be doing this and they probably won't even have to - because the managers will then regulate themselves.

Anyway, looney tunes rant over

Who's our left-back at the world cup likely to be - cos I don't fancy his chances against Messi...

[bazza]

I know someone who can stop the new Maradona, Messi...........

The new Bill Eckersley or the new Mike England or (especially for Jim) the new Keith Newton but we haven't found them yet.

[thenodrog]

1)  Shirt pulling.  Everybody laughs it off but it's cheating.  What about a footy shirt like the England backs shirts - skin tight and nothing to get hold off.  Alternatively, shirts designed to rip easily - so if pulled it has little or no effect.

386219[/snapback]

Dont design shirts to combat shirt pullers! Simply send anybody pulling shirts anywhere on the pitch off. How difficult's that? 99% will stop inside a month.

[Presty On Tour]

if that happened thenodrog i think there will be a few abandoned games!!

i belive if you go down to 6 or 7 players the game is abandoned and the other team is awarded a 5-0 victory?

would certainly work

[LeChuck]

Dont design shirts to combat shirt pullers!  Simply send anybody pulling shirts anywhere on the pitch off.  How difficult's that?  99% will stop inside a month.

386262[/snapback]

I could be wrong here so apologies if I am...but weren't you one of the people who said petty sendings off were ruining the game?

[blue/white]

Oh, that.... don't worry LeChuck...

that was yesterday !!!

[Manchester Blue]

Just a shame football plays second fiddle to their acting skills.

Apply that to the whole Barcalona team too.

The point is, it's not the game I played, a game for men.

It's now a game for cheats and the best cheats win.

Why are the crowds in this country down for euro games? People like me, that can remember proper football, will not pay to watch cheating @#/?.

386144[/snapback]

After a disappointing season just gone and a poor start to this one I was really fed up more than anything with our style of play. Watching the Spanish football and especially Barca was the one thing that cheered me up. I watch far less football than I used to and it has nothing to do with diving or play acting.

It is the win at all costs mentality in this country where points are more prized over style & skill. To slate Barca just shows how little you must watch them. It's almost cheesy really but no club epitomises the attitude that style is more important than results more than them.

Van Gaal paid with his job because of this, the crowd will not accept poor football as they expect to be entertained, what a biazarre concept. Thankfully Hughes has worked wonders this season at getting us to actually play football and I can't tell you how much more i've enjoyed it. I'd much rather have 11 players who can play and pass than 11 who can run and kick all day and play a so called man's game.

Do I want tackling outlawed? Not at all but to deride Barca as cheats shows a level of ignorance beyond belief.

[thenodrog]

I could be wrong here so apologies if I am...but weren't you one of the people who said petty sendings off were ruining the game?

386295[/snapback]

Indeed I was Le Chuck. Basically I was referring to inadvertant and accidental actions earning yellow cards. Mistimed tackles, raised arms, accidental hand balls etc. Shirt pulling by definition can never be accidental though.

Whats your alternative to my suggestion..... forcing players to play in mittens?

[Claytons Left Boot]

Rodney Marsh was one of the first in this country to advocate cheating. He admitted it himself on tv. There was a Man City v Everton game on Granada and he fell theatrically to the ground to earn a penalty without being touched.

Funny how opinions change. A few years ago I (along with three or four others) and on this Board, attempted to make a stand against cheating but was shot down. At that time around 80% or more had a "shrug your shoulders" attitude but now it seems to have gone full circle.

[AggyBlue]

Do I want tackling outlawed?  Not at all but to deride Barca as cheats shows a level of ignorance beyond belief.

386319[/snapback]

I can spot a cheat when I see one, you obviously couldn't spot one even if he fell over your undone shoelace

If they'd stick to football, they'd be a great team. But a team that resorts to such distasteful acts could never be great IMO.

[speeeeeeedie]

I've just had a chance to read this thread; quite amusing I might add. Aggy and Theno must still be using old money and even own one of those new fangled wireless machines judging from their comments. Some great words of wisdom from those two.

Football advances, it appears that some want the game to be the kick fest it was in the 1940's. I'm not condoning diving, shirt pulling, cheating, or all the other things that get my goat about football, but come on fellas move on.

[thenodrog]

I've just had a chance to read this thread; quite amusing I might add. Aggy and Theno must still be using old money and even own one of those new fangled wireless machines judging from their comments. Some great words of wisdom from those two.

Football advances, it appears that some want the game to be the kick fest it was in the 1940's. I'm not condoning diving, shirt pulling, cheating, or all the other things that get my goat about football, but come on fellas move on.

386383[/snapback]

You want to move on to a scenario involving even more cheating / diving / time wasting / play acting etc etc Speeedie? I'm frekin gobsmacked!

[Rover4ever]

If they'd stick to football, they'd be a great team. But a team that resorts to such distasteful acts could never be great IMO.

386377[/snapback]

Well, didnt Pedersen & Savage resort to "distasteful acts" with their handballs and diving?

And didnt England beat Arentina in 2002 courtesy of a Owen dive?

Or is it distasteful just when its them dirty Latinos?

[frosty]

And didnt England beat Arentina in 2002 courtesy of a Owen dive?

Really I thought that was a foul

Edited February 25, 2006 by frosty

[Rover4ever]

And didnt England beat Arentina in 2002 courtesy of a Owen dive?

Really I thought that was a foul

386401[/snapback]

It was similar to Terry's "foul" on Messi. Some here pointed out that Messi saw Terry coming and didnt move away just to get clattered.

In 2002, Owen leaves his left leg trailing , catches Pocchetino's leg and falls over.

At OT, Rooney did the same thing with Campbell last season.

The point is that unfortunately every team has at least a player or 2 who cheat, so its unfair when people label a whole team as cheaters while conveniently ignoring/supporting cheating by their own players/teams

[RovertheHill]

I've just had a chance to read this thread; quite amusing I might add. Aggy and Theno must still be using old money and even own one of those new fangled wireless machines judging from their comments. Some great words of wisdom from those two.

Football advances, it appears that some want the game to be the kick fest it was in the 1940's. I'm not condoning diving, shirt pulling, cheating, or all the other things that get my goat about football, but come on fellas move on.

386383[/snapback]

As far as I can see, the point everyone is making on here is that it is the cheating and diving that means referees cannot distinguish between genuinely malevolent and dirty challenges, and those that are nothing of the sort.

The problem is people who just shrug their shoulders and say that cheating is part of the modern game. What kind of attitude is that?

[Shaddy]

One thing that irritates me is how people can never find middle ground on issues. Suddenly every fall is a dive, and an attempt on cheating.

Come on! Many on the messageboard play football often enough. You should know that it is not difficult to be bundled over. And how many have then suffered the indignity of being accused of diving? I know I have, and I don't dive.

I am not meaning to excuse the divers. And if anything, divers can still be blamed for this counter-culture, because they've made defenders too highly strung on the issue.

It is just possible that attackers with genuine intent are falling under the strength of the tackles, in my opinion, *most of the time*. From being in a partisan crowd watching a match, the amount of jeering accusations of play acting don't reflect that.

[philipl]

"Did you cry when Speedie dived" sung with gusto to the ever-deserving Leicester fans when they eventually came up to the Prem.

I can remember some cheating footballers on Match of the Day even in the days TV was steam driven (Black and white).

So what's new?

Anyway, Barca are another level beyond Chelski so expect the Mancs Liverpool and us to be looking upwards at an even more mega-starred Chelski next season. Could be a good thing if it encourages the rest of the Prem to raise their game.

[LA Rover]

It was similar to Terry's "foul" on Messi. Some here pointed out that Messi saw Terry coming and didnt move away just to get clattered.

386404[/snapback]

yeah, not so much....the f***** ball hadn't even come down yet, Messi was waiting for it. What's he supposed to do? Move out of the way in the box, so Terry can clear it?

[tenpo]

Yeah I agree. I can think of a few times when the commentary has said that they 'played for the foul', when all they did was continue their run, or stand their ground, while the other player steamrollered them. If you can see that both players are aware of the other, the one who was there first, or has the ball has more 'rights'. Is that correct? That's not a rhetorical - i really want to know how it works. I know how I *think* it works, from watching and playing, but that can be different to what's stated in the rules.

Also, i agree with what was said earlier - it's quite easy to be bundled over, and then be accused of diving. It's happened to me quite a bit when I'm playing since I don't have a lot of bulk, and having broken a couple of bones before i'm much more likely to jump all over the place in an effort not to get smacked into the ground. I think if I then rolled around on the ground, or appealed the ref I could be fairly accused of cheating, but I get sometimes accused of it even when i don't. Of course, that's while the ref's looking. As soon as he's not it's handshakes all round! So now the tricky part - is it cheating to appeal to the ref to get someone carded for diving, even when you know you've fouled them? I reckon that happens a fair bit too.

[neekoy]

Play the foul as it looks to the naked eye, then go back later on with the video like they do with other incidents and charge the player from there. 5 or 6 weeks on the sideline would surely slow the Christina's of the world.