[Archived] Souness On Sky

[rover6]

You obviously know nothing at all about what Britain was like during WW2 either. I can confidently state that there is no other politician that could have done the job that Sir Winston did as Prime Minister in those terrible times. Absolutely none; and what is more I will also say that we would have lost the war early on but for the leadership and morale boosting powers of Churchill; to say nothing of his personal influence over President Roosevelt in the days before the USA came into the war. He does not deserve to be there either!!!

Fife, you've missed the point. I'm saying that WW2 MADE Churchill. He was in the right place at the right place to immortalise himself in the history of Britain.

Previously, his achievements were hardly amazing. My history is not great but as far as I know, he invented the concentration camp (Boer War), was an engineer of the Gallipolli landing, was an avid and ruthless imperialist who wanted India to remain with the Brits regardless of the cost of life and was at times a boorish individual and after the war, well, he lost the election.

He lead the country superbly during the war and thus made his name.

Er, yeah, OT.

Edited April 3, 2008 by rover6

[thenodrog]

Apart from the fact he enjoyed recreational drugs.

Surely you must detest that facet of his personal life?

How do you have definite insight into that bucky? Or are you just mischief making with Fife as an easy target?

[tcj_jones]

I've always liked Souey. He was a great character and I feel the Premier Legaue misses his presence.

But, whatever people's personal opinions of the man, he is a very good pundit - the best around, in my eyes. He talks a lot of sense and his wealth of knowledge on football from both a playing and managerial side make him a perfect footballing pundit.

Souness and Andy Gray for me.

[American]

Has anyone hired him in any actual footballing capacity since his brilliant job with Newcastle-where, unlike with us he WASN'T left with the nucleus of a good squad to destroy? Didn't think so. Just accept that the footballing world has seen something which your Souness-coloured glasses haven't and let it go at that. And I was one of the few who said we'd be able to find someone better. Remember this year we're disappointed at not really going for fourth, not delighted at making 17th. And people are now referring to Mark Hughes making the odd "Souness-like" decision. Not exactly flattering to your hero, but apt!!

I'm sorry, what have we won since he left? He might have worn out his welcome here, but at least we have silverware to show from his tenure.

[92er]

I'm sorry, what have we won since he left? He might have worn out his welcome here, but at least we have silverware to show from his tenure.

We won the battle against relegation the season he left.

If we had played Sheffield Wednsday in a semi-final we might even have got to a final, and then if a big team had underperformed.....................

[Fife Rover]

Apart from the fact he enjoyed recreational drugs.

Surely you must detest that facet of his personal life?

First I have heard of that facet of his life; are you certain about that? I very much doubt that he would have time for any sort of recreation during the first four or five years of the war. I have read almost all there is to read on the subject of Churchill and his war years and all the authors are as one on the fact that he seemed to never sleep. He took the occasional catnap in his room in the bunker that he was running things from at that moment in time, but always left strict instructions that he had to wakened if there was any threat or action pending. He also was famous for staying awake for 2 or even 3 days at a time.

I guess you are going to claim now that all this was down to drugs. Maybe it was, but they were no way recreational drugs; more likely he ordered his medical staff to keep him awake for whatever time for operational reasons. Incidentally this kind of thing was very common in the Navy where the ships captain would very often order the doctor to keep him awake for the duration of a pending action, and this also was often over 24 to 36 hours.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Fife Rover

[Fife Rover]

How do you have definite insight into that bucky? Or are you just mischief making with Fife as an easy target?

Thanks for your support Theno, but I can easily see off any silly mishief makers when it comes to talking about WW2, and in fact had already done so before I read your post. I lived right through it all and can quite easily remember things back as far as 1938.

[BuckyRover]

Thanks for your support Theno, but I can easily see off any silly mishief makers when it comes to talking about WW2, and in fact had already done so before I read your post. I lived right through it all and can quite easily remember things back as far as 1938.

Not illegal (yet) but still a recreational drug

The effects

You used to be able to buy it in balloons at festivals/clubs etc. but they have cracked down on that (why?)

Queen Victoria took Opium, Cannabis, Coca Wine & Chloroform; the junkie

[broadsword]

That just isn't funny!

[T4E]

How do you have definite insight into that bucky? Or are you just mischief making with Fife as an easy target?

Haha, nice one Theno

[FourLaneBlue]

Overall Souness has had a very chequered managerial career. There's no doubt he has had successes such as at Rangers and, overall, his time at Rovers but he also had some awful failures. If he had stayed much longer at Rovers we would have been back to where he'd joined us but having gone through most of our money.

Furthermore he spent plenty of money at both Rangers and Rovers yet not particularly wisely. Meanwhile at Liverpool and Newcastle he spent a fortune just to make both teams worse.

When you think of buys such as Boumsong for 8m, Grabbi for - what was it - 6.25m or something etc he has wasted a lot of money.

Overall he doesn't have a good record but somehow he was in the right place at the right time on a couple of occasions.

With such a colossal ego however he is always going to have a limited shelf life before he implodes.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Following the curious deletion of a second post of mine on this topic yesterday evening, I'm going to post on this thread purely about Graeme Souness.

I'm not going to discuss anybody else on this thread apart from the former manager of Rangers, Liverpool, Galatasaray, Southampton, Torino, Benfica, Blackburn Rovers and Newcastle United, Mr Souness.

Overall Souness has had a very chequered managerial career. He had some awful failures. If he had stayed much longer at Rovers we would have been back to where he'd joined us but having gone through most of our money.

Indeed. I suspect that Rovers were in danger of crashing into oblivion had Freddy Shepherd not decided to sack Bobby Robson and choose Graeme Souness to replace him.

For the purposes of this thread I'm going to discuss Souness's last particular job at Newcastle and give my thoughts as to whether or not it was a success.

In March this year Souness launched a scathing attack on Newcastle United fans saying: "The last job well and truly sickened me. The Newcastle one was a bad experience. They are a club that gets 52,000 people paying to watch them every other week and they have 22,000 supporters and 30,000 customers. They are extremely critical. They've done nothing since 1969, so where does this opinion come from that they are a big club?"

A link to Souness's comments about Newcastle fans is HERE

I tend to agree with Souness about the overblown expectations of the Newcastle fans, considering they haven't won a major trophy since 1969. However in my own view Souness's time at St James' Park was a failure because Newcastle went from being a top 5 club under Bobby Robson - finishing 4th in 2002, 3rd in 2003 and 5th in 2004 under Robson - to instead finishing in 14th place under Souness in 2005. (Graeme took over in September 2004.)

14th place was the lowest position that Newcastle had finished since being promoted to the Premiership in 1993. So it's quite a significant drop to go from being a top 5 club in three successive seasons under Robson to finishing in lowly 14th.

By February 2006 in the following season, when Newcastle were again in the bottom half of the table, Souness was relieved of his duties, with I daresay not many Newcastle fans sorry to see him go.

Souness is quick to blame the Newcastle fans for his sacking, but he should also have acknowledged that he made some big mistakes when he was at St James' Park, with £50m being spent on players like Boumsong and Albert Luque who were expensive disappointments on the pitch.

[Hasta]

But he also did a cracking job for 80% of his time at Ewood and also won us our second major piece of silverware since the war so let's give it a rest eh.

[rover6]

What would enliven (okay, make more interesting) the Souey debate is if someone could give us a real insight into his performance as a boss on the Continent. We know the stats but what about the substace behind the stats. You could read Steve McClaren's Boro stats and believe him to be the Second Coming.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

But he also did a cracking job for 80% of his time at Ewood and also won us our second major piece of silverware since the war so let's give it a rest eh.

As Gav would say......AMEN BROTHER!

[FourLaneBlue]

In March this year Souness launched a scathing attack on Newcastle United fans saying: "The last job well and truly sickened me. The Newcastle one was a bad experience. They are a club that gets 52,000 people paying to watch them every other week and they have 22,000 supporters and 30,000 customers. They are extremely critical. They've done nothing since 1969, so where does this opinion come from that they are a big club?"

That is interesting to hear from Souness. Especially as when he joined Newcastle he said...

" "I'm sad to be leaving (Rovers) but I'm excited. I'm joining one of the biggest clubs around."

BBC - Souness joins Newcastle

[Ronin]

That is interesting to hear from Souness. Especially as when he joined Newcastle he said...

" "I'm sad to be leaving (Rovers) but I'm excited. I'm joining one of the biggest clubs around."

BBC - Souness joins Newcastle

That's probably the usual view from the outside looking in from people not previously connected with Newcastle, Allardyce and the rest likely had the same view. Then when they get into the job and then see what it's like from inside the bubble their view seems to change.

[thenodrog]

Talking in the pub about Hughes and the Chelsea link. Obviously we (most) would want Sparky to stay, but that lead to the topic switching to the time when Spuds were sniffing around Souness after his 3rd year in charge. GS 1st 3 years in charge were very very successful and even better tha Hughes's in terms of achievement. If he had gone to Spurs then we would be clamouring for him back should Hughes leave. In the end 2 bad seasons and a contempt of the UEFA cup (which whatever he felt was at odds to long time supporters and represents our realistic ultimate prize) totally soured our attitude toward him. So who knows whats two years down the line if we manage to keep sparky?

Edited May 31, 2008 by thenodrog

[bobsterbrfc]

not to get too far ahead, but i'm sure JW is considering such issues, i wouldn't be too opposed to Souness returning. I bet he has learnt lessons both from his last 18 months at Rovers and at St James'. He is a good manager, equally capable of good signings, Brad, Tugay, Neill, ok there were some Amoruso's and the one and only Grabbi, but if he applied, i reckon JW will have him on the short-list, after all it appears JW has had a wonderful working relationship with both GS and MH

[Brfcrule1]

Hi all,

I don't believe some of you considering having souness back have you all forgotten how he manages to to get on the wrong side of every player he got yes he made some good signings Brad,Tugay,Neill but he has made many more mistakes than Sparky Grabbi, Amoruso, Unsal, J.D.Pedro the list go on and never really got there true value in terms of selling on and maybe JW had a good working relationship with GS & MH but doesn't mean to say we should have Souey back if and when we need to search for a new manager I would rather have names on there that have experience and have a good track record in the transfer market I would rather have names like Allardyce,Sven, and people like that who have a good record when signing and will not pick fights with every player that comes through the door however would not mind if souey and a consortium wanted to buy the club out as I feel we do need a takeover to take us to the next level but would only want GS in terms of a takeover so long as he would not medal in team selections.

Laters all.

[Hasta]

That is probably one of your best ever posts. Unfortunately I doubt many people will bother to decipher it.

[leftfooter]

Hi all,

I don't believe some of you considering having souness back have you all forgotten how he manages to to get on the wrong side of every player he got yes he made some good signings Brad,Tugay,Neill but he has made many more mistakes than Sparky Grabbi, Amoruso, Unsal, J.D.Pedro the list go on and never really got there true value in terms of selling on and maybe JW had a good working relationship with GS & MH but doesn't mean to say we should have Souey back if and when we need to search for a new manager I would rather have names on there that have experience and have a good track record in the transfer market I would rather have names like Allardyce,Sven, and people like that who have a good record when signing and will not pick fights with every player that comes through the door however would not mind if souey and a consortium wanted to buy the club out as I feel we do need a takeover to take us to the next level but would only want GS in terms of a takeover so long as he would not medal in team selections.

Laters all.

Some good points.

"I feel we do need a takeover to take us to the next level"

A potential one-time windfall of the mooted 25M to spend on new players, is nothing compared to 3m+ over the long term. Personally I'd rather see Rover's long term future secured, even if that might mean us eventually becoming part of a Premier League II or even a galvanised Championship. With the global economy in flux, and the strengthening of rival foreign leagues (e.g.Russia and perhaps in another decade the U.S.), we could see the market that has brought us the TV bubble contracting or even popping, sooner rather than later.

Steven Reid could be added to the list of good signings.

[Jan]

not to get too far ahead, but i'm sure JW is considering such issues, i wouldn't be too opposed to Souness returning. I bet he has learnt lessons both from his last 18 months at Rovers and at St James'. He is a good manager, equally capable of good signings, Brad, Tugay, Neill, ok there were some Amoruso's and the one and only Grabbi, but if he applied, i reckon JW will have him on the short-list, after all it appears JW has had a wonderful working relationship with both GS and MH

Fortunately, given the way JW referred to Sourness after he left, that won't happen. And for anyone to seriously suggest it shows they are not Rovers fans, and have no concept about football. There's REASON he hasn't got a job. He's NO BLOODY GOOD.

[chocky]

To be fair to him, we did win our only cup trophy since 1928 with him as manager...I think the fact that his abrasive personality started to ###### off most of the players towards the end of him time with Rovers was the problem...It's seems this happens every to every team he goes to...

[philipl]

To be fair to him, we did win our only cup trophy since 1928 with him as manager...I think the fact that his abrasive personality started to ###### off most of the players towards the end of him time with Rovers was the problem...It's seems this happens every to every team he goes to...

Sorry I mis-read initially.

Agreed re Souness personality and the reason I am so relieved we avoided Dowie although I was very in favour when the Rovers job was open. Ince has a similar reputation and I'd be horrified to see him at Ewood.

Edited May 31, 2008 by philipl