[Archived] Champions League

[Hughesy]

Final score 1-0. Id say thats 1 foot in the final for them as im sure they will score at the emirates.

I also think Chelsea will have it tough too, because again I think Barca will score

Edited April 29, 2009 by Hughesy

[Rovermatt]

Gutted to see United reach another final. That trophy's going nowhere for another year.

I've no pity for Wenger though. He has slowly and methodically dismantled a previously exciting and ruthless (not to mention successful) football team and turned it into a shallow, powder-puff shadow of its former self. To see a side so knee deep in its own pretensions, dismantled and exposed as losers would be sad if it weren't for the unpleasant way Wenger and his petulant school children (led, of course, by the talented playground ruffian Fabregas) conduct themselves on and off the pitch. All United needed to do was look at Wenger's delusional comments about winning the tie (when clearly they are capable of nothing of the sort) for motivation. He's quickly wearing out his usefulness at The Emirates. When the American Kroenke finally gets his controlling stake in Arsenal he may quickly plump for a manager who can actually win something.

[DE.]

Arsenal have relied on their youngsters too much, and not spent enough to keep up with the big boys. Wenger needs to admit his policy has failed and break out the chequebook if he wants Arsenal to compete again any time soon. The gulf in class between Utd and Arsenal tonight was rather surprising and a little embarressing for L'Arse.

[Hughesy]

4 years without a trophy - anyone know how much he has actually spent on players over those 4 years??

That new stadium has obviously hit their finances hard.

[thenodrog]

Arsenal have relied on their youngsters too much, and not spent enough to keep up with the big boys. Wenger needs to admit his policy has failed and break out the chequebook if he wants Arsenal to compete again any time soon. The gulf in class between Utd and Arsenal tonight was rather surprising and a little embarressing for L'Arse.

I quite admire him for not doing. They have stayed in the top 4, got into the CL semi's whilst they are paying for the stadium. Future Arsenal fans will thank him.

Speaking of which... I just love seeing big clubs supporters going home early! It happened with MU v Lpool too.

[DE.]

Depends where Arsenal want to go Gordo. As it stands the gulf between them and the others is widening at a frightening rate. Soon it'll be the big 3 (Utd, Chelski, Liverpool), followed by the next 5 (Arsenal, Villa, Man City, Spurs, Everton), followed by the rest. I wonder if Arsenal's owners will be happy to see them in that second bracket.

Edited May 5, 2009 by DE4life

[Eddie]

His policy hasn't failed. If he can keep that bunch of players fit for a season and with Arshavin being there for the entire season they'll do well next year. They certainly are still firmly in the "top four" and are miles ahead of the chasing pack. Champions League Semi (getting knocked out by the soon to be Premiership Champions and in my view the best all-round team in Europe), 4th in the league, FA Cup Semi (probably knocked out by the winners). That isn't a bad season. I don't think Wenger will ever change his system, I don't think Arsenal can afford to. He and Ferguson stand head and shoulders above every other manager that's been in this league for me and I think they'd probably be smart to keep on doing what they're doing, not that they need me or anyone else to tell them that.

4 years without a trophy - anyone know how much he has actually spent on players over those 4 years??

That new stadium has obviously hit their finances hard.

It will have been a sizeable chunk of cash, but nothing in comparison to the youngsters the other big clubs have brought in (Ronaldo, Rooney and Mikel to name just a few) and that's before you even look at them signing more experienced players. To sign some of them they will be taking advantage of the laws in other European countries (as they did with Fabregas and United did with Macheda) and he's building a side that could potentially win a lot without spending the amount their rivals are.

[Tom]

As I said in the OPLH thread Wenger is great in my opinion and is up behind fergie as the greatest manager of the generation.

I admire his football ideals and policies, not so much his moaning though.

[Iceman]

How Wenger is considered by some to be a failure is rather astonishing. I wonder how many of those youngsters, would get into any other team. I would say most, if not all of them. Wenger and Arsenal will see the benefits of keeping those youngsters together, and playing regular football will see them dominate again in the coming years.

The advantage is that if the credit crunch continues to hit the big spenders, then Arsenal will be smiling because they dont need to buy big to be up there challenging.

[T4E]

Depends where Arsenal want to go Gordo. As it stands the gulf between them and the others is widening at a frightening rate. Soon it'll be the big 3 (Utd, Chelski, Liverpool), followed by the next 5 (Arsenal, Villa, Man City, Spurs, Everton), followed by the rest. I wonder if Arsenal's owners will be happy to see them in that second bracket.

Erm.....am I right in thinking that Arsenal haven't lost in the league since November?

[philipl]

Got a feeling that if anyone were to push Arsenal out of the top 4, this was the season to do it. Villa messed uptheir opportunity big time.

Just shows how quickly we have grown used to English European domination again. Arsenal lose in the semi-final to the defending champions playing a team of kids and there are folk on here posting that they are a busted flush.

I'd love to be a busted flush with that squad available.

[CrazyIvan]

That busted flush is a very young squad full of talent. Give them a couple of years. Something tells me Wenger knows what he wants to achieve and is planning for the long term.

[Hughesy]

Thats all they say each year - "give them time, give them a couple of years".

Then they leave! Flamini last summer, Rosicky this time, who next.

Arsenal wont win the league or Europe until the sign a goal poacher and an experience player or 2.

As for the post about United/ Chelsea paying alot more for kids and Ronaldo being mentioned. How much did he cost United? And how much did Walcott cost Arsenal?

& Walcott - he still isnt good enough when it comes to playing the top teams.

[DE.]

Man Utd 80

Liverpool 77

Che;sea 74

Arsenal 68

6 points behind 3rd and only in 4th because Villa ran out of steam doesn't really represent a great season. They're 12 points behind Utd and it will be 15 by the time Utd win their game in hand. Arsenal are still doing well for the money they've spent, but if they want to become a force again they need to break out the chequebook and bring in a couple more Arshavin-like signings. He's had a huge impact on them this year, when the kids weren't cutting it.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that Wenger brings (mostly foreign) youth into his team, and as Utd have shown with their 30M signing of Berbatov, sometimes big money signings don't always pay off, however, if Arsenal are not careful they'll become a club that feeds to other clubs. A few years ago when they were winning things would a player like Flamini have left for AC? If they don't start winning things soon I think their players may look elsewhere. Basically, they need silverware and fast, no more "the team is developing", or "next year is the year". They've got enough young, raw talent, they just need a little more experience and leadership on the pitch. That type of experience generally has to be purchased.

Edited May 6, 2009 by DE4life

[Eddie]

Thats all they say each year - "give them time, give them a couple of years".

Then they leave! Flamini last summer, Rosicky this time, who next.

Arsenal wont win the league or Europe until the sign a goal poacher and an experience player or 2.

As for the post about United/ Chelsea paying alot more for kids and Ronaldo being mentioned. How much did he cost United? And how much did Walcott cost Arsenal?

& Walcott - he still isnt good enough when it comes to playing the top teams.

Walcott signed for 5 million or something, but there were added clauses that could take it to 11/12 million (I think), Ronaldo was signed for a little over 12 million. So that's a fair point, but generally Arsenal's youngsters are expensive, but aren't bank breakers.

I don't think anyone is saying that it is a great season DE4, but it's been a good season. They started slowly, but have been in very good form for the past several months. Arshavin could be one of the missing links that they needed, especially if Walcott continues to develop as he has over the past 12 months or so.

I know it is easy to say "they always say give them another year or two", but you have to remember that Walcott is 20, Fabregas 22, Clichy 23...etc.

If anyone wants to bet with me that Arsenal don't finish in the top 4 next season I'll be happy to take your money? I'll even say that they finish at least 10 points clear of 5th.

[b12_simon]

6 points behind 3rd and only in 4th because Villa ran out of steam doesn't really represent a great season.

It represents the sort of adequate season Arsenal can get away with, as well as the sort of season Liverpool kept putting in pre-Torres. It shows how bent this whole Champions League setup is. The fact is Arsenal (and previously Liverpool) can qualify comfortably without ever challenging for the title. Champions League my arse!

[Eddie]

Seeing as we are all fans of the "form expanded over the course of the season" stuff. Arsenal haven't lost in the league since November 22nd, 2008. In the past 22 league games they've picked up 51 points, which if they put on that sort of run over the course of the entire season they'd finish on 88 points and would be sitting on 81 points right now (in other words they'd be top). In that time they've also got to the champions league semi and an fa cup semi, so it's not as if they've had the advantage of focusing on only one competition.

Now, I don't expect them to win the league next season and the form expanded over the course of the season stuff would make everyone's season look nice, but it does show that they got off to a particularly slow start which is why they are so far behind United and Liverpool. As philipl said, this was the year to sneak 4th. This kind of season pops up every few years where one of the top four (usually Arsenal because they are not the financial powerhouses that the other 3 are) struggles for a bit and it makes finishing in 4th realisitic. You can complain about that if you want, but it gives the chasing pack a little bit of hop. Fact remains that Arsenal are clearly in the top 4 in England and are also one of the best sides in Europe.

[DE.]

I agree that Arsenal will finish top 4 again next year.... but in order to compete I believe they need to bring in a couple more signings like Arshavin, else they'll finish 4th again with no silverware to show for it. The threat for Arsenal, as I see it, is that their young players may start looking elsewhere for trophies if Arsenal continue to win nothing. That's not a reflection on Wenger as a manager at all, it's just a sad fact of the game that loyalty doesn't really exist.

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

got to say fairly gutted for Fletcher, Makes possibly the tackle of the champions league to date and gets sent off. Not only that but because of UEFA rules this cannot be taken away. Why are there some rules in one competition and different rules in an other. I can accept the Ref making a mistake, but for Uefas red tape to get in the way once again is the real Joke. as football is the same game, the same rules should apply through out, no wonder nobody understands the rules of the game any more with these Politicians running it. Either a card can be taken away if the Ref got it wrong or it cant, 1 rule!

How we as a country lost our game to these faceless nobodys is shocking.

[Eddie]

Not a rule of the game, it's a rule for the competition. The rule should be different, but they can't change it mid-tournament. It's sad for him, but it's not exactly a tragedy.

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

I understand they cant change it mid tournament, but my point is no one understands the rules any more. Thats why referees at grass route level are criticised by parents, as usually neither fully understand the rules. Uefa/Fifa introduce and then take away rules without us the fans ever knowing, leading to pure frustration.

What ever happened to the Day light offside rule, a tackle from behind was supposed to be a straight red card, Diving was supposed to be a straight red at one point. just 3 that come to mind and have all quickly vanished. Some rules have come in to the game for the good, but football worked perfectly well for many years before people started interfearing with the rules

[Majiball]

Not a rule of the game, it's a rule for the competition. The rule should be different, but they can't change it mid-tournament. It's sad for him, but it's not exactly a tragedy.

How on earth can you say its not a tragedy?????

The only Scots man with a chance of playing in the champions league final and he can't, I hope the ref does the right thing.

I'm gutted for him.

[Hughesy]

It wasnt a red, everyone knows it and therefore only the ref can save him. He really should admit in his match report that he got it wrong. If he doesnt then its pathetic that the authorities cant get involved.

[alexanders]

This tackle provoked massive discussions amongst the commentators on Norwegian telly. 2 of them saying it wasn't a red and the other one saying it was.

It was a penalty. He fell over or twisted his feet amongst Fabregas' feet and took away his scoring chance. He was the last man and it was a dead cert scoring chance.

I would be furious if we were not given a penalty on that , and if it is a penalty it is a red card for being the last man.

[Hughesy]

He took the ball before he did anything.