[Archived] Champions League

[Eddie]

I don't agree with that. I think because of the fact that he did not stop the goal and because it is not 100% clear as to whether or not he took the player down on purpose or in an attempt to get the ball that he could easily have allowed and issued a warning or a booking.

[doctorryan]

.......because of the fact that he did not stop the goal......

408974[/snapback]

But Eddie he did stop the goal, which left him with no wiggle room to do anything other than show the red. What he should've done was not blown the whistle, let the goal stand and then send the prat off for a professional foul.

Incase the "he" Eddie is referring to is the prat himself instead of the ref; the fact that he didn't stop the goal doesn't figure into it. He took a guy down by cupping his hand or grabbing him at the ankle. Whether that was done on purpose or not; that is a red card if it's seen by an official. This one was.

Edited May 19, 2006 by doctorryan

[Rainmaker]

Henry going on air and stating that referee should have worn a barca shirt... oh dear oh dear.

Isn't this actually a much worse statement than what our Admiral got dragged in front of a FA hearing for?

[BuckyRover]

Isn't this actually a much worse statement than what our Admiral got dragged in front of a FA hearing for?

409003[/snapback]

Yeah, only we hadn't just lost a Champions League final against Europe's favourite club with help from an inept referee.

[Rovermatt]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but click here for big news.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

But Eddie he did stop the goal, which left him with no wiggle room to do anything other than show the red.  What he should've done was not blown the whistle, let the goal stand and then send the prat off for a professional foul.

Incase the "he" Eddie is referring to is the prat himself instead of the ref; the fact that he didn't stop the goal doesn't figure into it.  He took a guy down by cupping his hand or grabbing him at the ankle.  Whether that was done on purpose or not; that is a red card if it's seen by an official.  This one was.

408997[/snapback]

Doc, I would stop there, before you make yourself look daft. It's one way or the other, play advantage and BOOK the offender, or blow and red card the offender.

Sepp Blatter has even said the ref was too hasty, he should have allowed the action to continue, therefore giving a fair advantage to Barc ( a goal).

It is deemed a professional foul IF it prevents a gaolscoring opportunity - it didn't, so Lehmann should have stayed on and kept goal for a team trailing by one goal to nil- end of discussion.

Please people, understand the laws.

[cn174]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but click here for big news.

409014[/snapback]

But he still says 'I love Barcelona...."

If Barca came in with a last minute deal I think he coudl still be swayed.

[BuckyRover]

Everybody wants to do a bit of Arsenal bashing.

People love mentioning how many foreigns players they have (they spent 10m on both Jeffers and Walcott).

And they also play the English way. I was proud to watch them on Wednesday, but maybe thats because I hate Barcelona so much.

Del Horno should never have been sent off by that ref for Chelsea against Barca and because of that he shouldnt have got to ref the final (esp. as Barca were in it).

[DaveyB]

Doc, I would stop there, before you make yourself look daft. It's one way or the other, play advantage and BOOK the offender, or blow and red card the offender.

Sepp Blatter has even said the ref was too hasty, he should have allowed the action to continue, therefore giving a fair advantage to Barc ( a goal).

It is deemed a professional foul IF it prevents a gaolscoring opportunity - it didn't, so Lehmann should have stayed on and kept goal for a team trailing by one goal to nil- end of discussion.

Please people, understand the laws.

409015[/snapback]

I like to think I have a fair understanding of the laws - I am a qualified referee (although maybe that means I don't understand anything about football at all...)

The laws talk of denying the player a goalscoring opportunity - not the team. Lehmann did deny Eto'o a goalscoring opportunity and therefore should have been sent off.

I'm also not sure you can debate whether or not he meant to do it - as he actually grabbed his ankle, rather than Eto'o's foot catching a flailing arm.

So the ref would have been well within his rights to allow the goal and then produce a red card - however, most refs wouldn't do, as without the aid of the slow motion it would have been difficult to assess the intent in Lehmanns challenge.

As I've said before the ref acted to the letter of the law, and not neccessarily in the interests of the game as a spectacle - but then refs aren't told to protect the spectacle, they are told to uphold the laws of the game. IMO football in general would be a lot better if refs were told that, since football is an entertainment business, they should act as such.

Whenever I ref games (usually under 15/16's) I always make it clear that, barring a leg breaking challenge or something similar, we will end the game with 11v11 - the lads have come to enjoy a game of football and they don't want it spoiled by the referee - FIFA, UEFA and the FA need to realise that in the same way, thousands of people have paid to enjoy a game of football and don't want it spoiled by the referee. But that's really a debate for another time.

Back to Wednesday's game, as I said earlier I only saw the first 40 mins or so, but in that time the only major decision that the ref got wrong was allowing Eboue to con his way to a freekick, instead of recieving a 2nd yellow. So Arsenal, instead of being 1-0 up at half time, should have been down to 9 men.

None of the other highlights of the game I have seen feature a wrong decision by the referee in Barca's favour, so I don't see where all the complaining has come from.

It's always the same though. Whenever, an English team lose, either in the champions league or in an International competition, it's never their fault. It's always because we were cheated - we are the national equivalent of a 5-year-old, who sulks and crys when things don't go his way. Grow up and learn to lose with dignity!!!!!!!!!!

[BuckyRover]

None of the other highlights of the game I have seen feature a wrong decision by the referee in Barca's favour, so I don't see where all the complaining has come from.

It's always the same though. Whenever, an English team lose, either in the champions league or in an International competition, it's never their fault. It's always because we were cheated - we are the national equivalent of a 5-year-old, who sulks and crys when things don't go his way. Grow up and learn to lose with dignity!!!!!!!!!!

Were you watching Spanish highlights?

Henry was kicked off the park, and nobody did anything about it.

I don't look down on Eboue either. After seeing the ref only give free kicks when they were dives. I would be diving too.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Why do you say Arsenal should be down to 9 men?

Deco dived more than twice and so should have been sent off, as did Marquez, Ronaldinho in fact the whole team. So Arsenal should have won by default.

[brfcjon]

In danish tv they had done a quick interview view a danish FIFA REF and what he said was as Tony Diamond says.... If you blow for the freekick its a red because he is denied a goalscoring opportunity and if the goal had stood it would only have been a yellow.

Not only does it seem fair its apparently what the FIFA refs are taught..... therefor if Hauge had just waited for that ,5 sec. the CL final would have continued to be a great game. Instead it turned out to be an interesting tactical display -which can be fine sometimes. I just feel that it would have been nice with a game 11 vs 11.

[DaveyB]

   

Were you watching Spanish highlights?

Henry was kicked off the park, and nobody did anything about it.

I don't look down on Eboue either. After seeing the ref only give free kicks when they were dives. I would be diving too.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Why do you say Arsenal should be down to 9 men?

Deco dived more than twice and so should have been sent off, as did Marquez, Ronaldinho in fact the whole team. So Arsenal should have won by default.

409055[/snapback]

No, I only managed to watch the first 40 minutes before being called out to work. When I got home Sky were doing their post match analysis - none of the incidents they showed during that featured a wrong decision by the referee, therefore I'm guessing that none of the ref's wrong decisions (they all make them you know) were what you would call game changing.

I said that Arsenal should be down to 9 men, as having already been booked Eboue should have been shown a 2nd yellow for his baltent dive. And as for your justification of what he did - does the phrase "2 wrongs don't make a right" mean anything to you.

If Arsenal had managed to hang on for a 1-0 win, then Barca would have been cheated, but I doubt that we would have the hysterical over-reaction on here. As I said, whenever English teams lose it's never because they deserve to - we, as a nation, are incredibly sore losers!

[Eddie]

I'm not sure who it was but a Barca player made a horrible attempt at a dive just outside the Arsenal box which was ignored by the ref and still the player wasn't booked. It was laughable how few bookings were shown to Barcelona and how many were shown to Arsenal, in particular the booking of Henry when he simply kicked the ball.

[Rovermatt]

I'm not sure who it was but a Barca player made a horrible attempt at a dive just outside the Arsenal box which was ignored by the ref and still the player wasn't booked.

409082[/snapback]

Deco.

[LA Rover]

If Arsenal had managed to hang on for a 1-0 win, then Barca would have been cheated, but I doubt that we would have the hysterical over-reaction on here. As I said, whenever English teams lose it's never because they deserve to - we, as a nation, are incredibly sore losers!

409080[/snapback]

Amen to that...

[Oklahoma]

I think the main problem was before the match. The whole controversy with the linesman (who was replaced by another one), the way Barça got to the final (ref decisions helped them to beat Milan and even Benfica)...

So Arsenal players were already ready to protest...

[jkritchey]

One last thing. You cannot complain about bad commentators and pundits until you've experienced the ineptitude of the US ones. Once you have witnessed this you'll be very happy to have anyone on the BBC or ITV. I hope other US based posters will back me up here but I have the unfortunate prospect of listening to a World Cup with these idiots. There is an Irish bloke called Tommy Smyth who is useless beyond comprehension. His analysis is constantly wrong and spent 5 minutes waxing about Almunia's "tum". Also we have 'expert analysis' from Marcelo Balboa, an ex-US international who thought that "Ronaldino" wasn't playing well.

408813[/snapback]

The entire ESPN production was awful, despite the nice HD picture. Derek Rae is OK, but just. Tommy Smythe is wrong so often it's laughable. Balboa adds nothing. And yet, this was the GOOD TEAM of announcers....

[SouthAussieRover]

Good to see a legitimate goal scored by Sol Campbell in a major match,finally given.

Let's hope any goal he scores at the World Cup is finally allowed.

[Eddie]

Amen to that...

409126[/snapback]

Show me a good loser in football. The officials didn't do a good job and it is difficult to take a defeat when you feel as if things might have been different had there been some different decisions made.

[doctorryan]

Doc, I would stop there, before you make yourself look daft. It's one way or the other, play advantage and BOOK the offender, or blow and red card the offender.

Sepp Blatter has even said the ref was too hasty, he should have allowed the action to continue, therefore giving a fair advantage to Barc ( a goal).

It is deemed a professional foul IF it prevents a gaolscoring opportunity - it didn't, so Lehmann should have stayed on and kept goal for a team trailing by one goal to nil- end of discussion.

Please people, understand the laws.

409015[/snapback]

This is a public board Tony D. People can come here and read posts even if they're not registered. It's a public record out there for all to see. Which in this case makes it a good thing for you that one can still maintain a certain amount of anonymity.

DaveyB, thanks for backing me up.

Make myself look daft, huh. The advantage rule(& please correct me if I'm wrong Davey) is found in FIFA's Laws of the Game, Law 5. I'll just paraphrase the good parts:

1) The referee allows play to continue when the team against which an offense has been committed will benefit from such an advantage and penalizes the original offense if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at the time.

2) a referee is not obliged to stop the play to show a card because if he has already clearly shown that he is playing the advantage rule, he can wait for the next stoppage in play to do so.

Please Tony, understand the laws.

Edited May 21, 2006 by doctorryan

[LA Rover]

Show me a good loser in football. The officials didn't do a good job and it is difficult to take a defeat when you feel as if things might have been different had there been some different decisions made.

409157[/snapback]

Yeah, you're absolutely right, he blew the call on the Lehmann red card (should have been a goal on advantage) and his phantom foul for Arsenal's goal were brutal. As I said before, the calls went both ways, had "different decisions" been made it might have been 3-0 Barcelona.

From my eye, the best team won. If Arsenal feel they were they best team, they should have TRIED to win the game, instead of waiting for a set piece and trying to defend for 75 minutes. (the possesion was over 78% to Barcelona). Does anyone on here really think Barcelona would have done that? Hell no, they know one way to play, and that's attack. How anyone can say that Arsenal were the better term or deserved to win that game on merit is beyond comprehension. Complaining about referee's when the balance of decisions was not tipped in either side's favor, is just WEAK. I expect more of Henry, I understand his disappointment, but I hope he just stops whining.

[Ozz]

Balboa adds nothing.

409134[/snapback]

Yon mon should stick to boxing.

[Eddie]

Yeah, you're absolutely right, he blew the call on the Lehmann red card (should have been a goal on advantage) and his phantom foul for Arsenal's goal were brutal. As I said before, the calls went both ways, had "different decisions" been made it might have been 3-0 Barcelona.

From my eye, the best team won. If Arsenal feel they were they best team, they should have TRIED to win the game, instead of waiting for a set piece and trying to defend for 75 minutes. (the possesion was over 78% to Barcelona). Does anyone on here really think Barcelona would have done that? Hell no, they know one way to play, and that's attack. How anyone can say that Arsenal were the better term or deserved to win that game on merit is beyond comprehension. Complaining about referee's when the balance of decisions was not tipped in either side's favor, is just WEAK. I expect more of Henry, I understand his disappointment, but I hope he just stops whining.

409171[/snapback]

71% to Barcelona actually and as for not trying to win the game they played a very good game for being down to 10 men for such a long period of time and actually had better chances to score than Barcelona did up until the 75th minute. I'm not an Arsenal fan, never have been, so it isn't as if you are discussing this with horribly biased people. Would Barcelona have also gone more defensive had they been down to 10 men? Yes, of course, no team goes down to 10 men and continues to play in exactly the same style, that is called stupidity. The calls didn't go both ways, apart from the free kick that Arsenal scored from I doubt you can show me any decision that went there way. I could name countless bookings that should have been for Barcelona players which could well have changed the way in which they were able to defend.

[LA Rover]

71% to Barcelona actually and as for not trying to win the game they played a very good game for being down to 10 men for such a long period of time and actually had better chances to score than Barcelona did up until the 75th minute. I'm not an Arsenal fan, never have been, so it isn't as if you are discussing this with horribly biased people. Would Barcelona have also gone more defensive had they been down to 10 men? Yes, of course, no team goes down to 10 men and continues to play in exactly the same style, that is called stupidity. The calls didn't go both ways, apart from the free kick that Arsenal scored from I doubt you can show me any decision that went there way. I could name countless bookings that should have been for Barcelona players which could well have changed the way in which they were able to defend.

409177[/snapback]

Eddie,

We'll agree to disagree, but I'll just say this. Your analysis of Barca is wrong. There were at least two occasions this season in La Liga (I forget the opponents), when Barca went down to ten men and continued to attack. I work with a Barca fan who has seen nearly every game this season, and, as he sits next to me at this very moment is scoffing at the notion that they would have retreated into a defensive shell like Arsenal did. They go 3 at the back drop Edmilson/Motta/Iniesta or Xavi a little deeper and continue to play their game. They play with the philosophy that having the ball is the best defense. I'm not necessarily saying they would have poured forward in wave after attacking wave, but you would never seem them camping 9 men behind the ball for the 75 minutes. I challenge you to ask any informed Barca fan, and I guarantee you they will tell you the same, this team does not know how to play any other way. You can call it stupidity if you wish, but it's just a fact.

At any rate, I respect your opinion...cheers.

[LA Rover]

apart from the free kick that Arsenal scored from I doubt you can show me any decision that went there way. I could name countless bookings that should have been for Barcelona players which could well have changed the way in which they were able to defend.

409177[/snapback]

1) Play the advantage...1-0 Barca....If Arsenal have to attack, it only gets worse...

2) Eboue's tackle from behind in the second half on the edge of the box against (??? can't remeber) and should have been sent off, as he was already booked.

Think those 2 would have changed the game...