[Archived] Mclaren

[Fife Rover]

I read an article somewhere (ages ago) about the French system. I think it was gerrard houlier who helped set up an elite 'skills' project with alot of up & coming French kids. Some of France`s top pro came from there.

Maybe the FA should hire Houlier & ask him to set-up something similar?

Hmmmm! Beter still, maybe Rovers should hire him and put him in charge of the academy.

[pleasure]

I read an article somewhere (ages ago) about the French system. I think it was gerrard houlier who helped set up an elite 'skills' project with alot of up & coming French kids. Some of France`s top pro came from there.

Maybe the FA should hire Houlier & ask him to set-up something similar?

Clairefontaine is the french training centre. the france national team is certainly reaping the benefits.

england had its own version lilleshaw (spelling), but then decided acadamies and centres of excellance would be a better option.

whether they have been is debatable.

[speeeeeeedie]

Lilleshall was a disaster from the beginning. It was set up at the height of England's 1980's long ball era. The coaches who worked there picked the biggest 15 year old footballers in England and put them on the "fast-track" to international stardom. A few made it, I think Michael Owen was one, but far too many didn't.

The academy system is pretty new to me as I wasn't in Blighty when it was conceived, but from what I know it lengthened the old 2 year YTS contracts to 3, called them scholarships and made kids concentrate more on football and education rather than picking litter up after home games. Also clubs can have teams at under 8 level which was previously not allowed.

I don't think academies are a bad thing, I also think England will also always produce good footballers, it is the coaching that needs to be improved across the board. Too many still rely on what they did when they played (hoof the thing as far as possible) rather than trying to make players better.

[Palace_john]

Bring back golden balls..................

[Rovermatt]

I can tell you that any French supporter would take Gerrard or Rooney, as well as a host of other England players.

Rooney and Gerrard aside, what other players in this 'host' would French supporters crave over their own pretty useful performers?

Edited October 18, 2006 by Rovermatt

[neekoy]

Rooney and Gerrard aside, what other players in this 'host' would French supporters crave over their own pretty useful performers?

Maybe Carragher or Terry if Thuram was injured? Probably a better option the Squillaci, Boumsong or Mexes.

Coupet, Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram, Abidal, Viera, Makelele, Malouda, Ribery, Henry

I think you would put Gerrard in for Viera or Makelele but Rooney wouldn't fit into my attacking three. I think Malouda and Ribery are on par at least with Rooney and Henry is still the second best player in the world.

Edited October 19, 2006 by neekoy

[bob fleming]

The coaches who worked there picked the biggest 15 year old footballers in England and put them on the "fast-track" to international stardom. A few made it, I think Michael Owen was one, but far too many didn't.

Can't believe that. Your telling us that Michael Owen was one of the biggest players around as a 15 year old? He must have shrunk since.

[thenodrog]

I cannot remember ever being as incredulous in my life. Anybody can see that the man is a DEMOTIVATOR with no redeeming talents whatsoever. This is not a safe appointment it is international suicide.

Good Points

1. It'll be sh1t but not for long! Barwick and Maclaren will not see 2 years in their respective posts. But it will almost certainly flerk up Euro 98 first.

2. The FA will not get all that sh1t ever again from press, media and pundits about appointing Englishmen.

3. The fall out will be that FA may well be knocked from their ivory towers and dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Wembley, Ericson and now this! WTF can they ever get right?

Bad Points

1. Maclaren is far worse and less capable of managing and motivating footballers than Graham Taylor ever knew how to be! But he and his family surely do not deserve the unrelenting scorn and criticism that he is now certainly lined up for. It will certainly destroy him as a manager but it could easily destroy him as a person, and his family life too! I always feel sympathy for Turkeys 10 days before Christmas.

2. Gibsons out of a hole. I suspect he must have had some influence here! I suspect Gartside wanted mega compensation whilst Gibson would have waived anything at all. Unless Maclarens teams domestic performance this season improved by next October Gibbo would surely have seen him sacked.

3. Boro have been strengthened, Bolton have not been weakened. Boro will be a greater threat whoever manages them. Bolton will be the same so now we are looking at a tougher fixture list already.

4. The world and his wife will be laughing at our ineptitude.

Word of advice do not go to watch England and do not buy a scrap of merchandise of any sort. The FA have chosen to ignore the fans completely so now it's trime for us to ignore them! What a sad day and a shambles.

Damn! I got the bit about Boro in point 3 wrong!

[AggyBlue]

Damn! I got the bit about Boro in point 3 wrong!

What about point 1.

Euro '98?

[thenodrog]

What about point 1.

Euro '98?

Indeed. Well spotted aggy. BUT.... Interesting reading and very accurate reminders on this thread of the general perception of Maclarens lack of abilities for the job. If we all knew that he was hopeless and English qualification for EURO 08 under serious threat even then just what does it say for the combined 'abilities' of the tossers at the FA? This and the Wembley fiasco show the lot of them as incompetants. Sacking is too good for them. Calling for Maclarens head on a platter is only half the job.

[Fife Rover]

Damn! I got the bit about Boro in point 3 wrong!

In both your "point 3's" Theno!

As far as dragging the FA kicking and screaming into the 21st century is concerned, surely they need dragging into the 20th first. They seem to have completely missed that one out!

[ABBEY]

MCCLAREN IN FAN BLAST

[RevidgeBlue]

I only saw the first half on Saturday but to me from their body language it's quite obvious that most of the 100k p.w guys - Rio, Gerrard Lampard, Rooney etc simply can't be arsed playing for England these days. I would excuse Terry from that charge but it's not just a recent thing either.

These type of guys certainly don't seem to respond to Sven or McClaren, I'm starting to wonder if they'll respond to anyone once they have to go through the chore of pulling on an England shirt.

However, on the off chance they might, and if Mourinho leaves Chelski in the summer, the FA should move heaven and earth to get him in.

The "new Brian Clough" albeit 30 years too late.

[thenodrog]

I only saw the first half on Saturday but to me from their body language it's quite obvious that most of the 100k p.w guys - Rio, Gerrard Lampard, Rooney etc simply can't be arsed playing for England these days. I would excuse Terry from that charge but it's not just a recent thing either.

These type of guys certainly don't seem to respond to Sven or McClaren, I'm starting to wonder if they'll respond to anyone once they have to go through the chore of pulling on an England shirt.

Deep breath..... I'd wager that an England 2nd X1 managed properly by Hughes / Allardyce and containing none of Maclarens 'first choice' players could beat Israel 8 games out of 10!

[LeChuck]

Rooney and Gerrard aside, what other players in this 'host' would French supporters crave over their own pretty useful performers?

That's daft though.

Turn that question round; Henry aside, who else would England put in their starting 11 from the French team? Thuram of a few years ago would have been useful instead of Neville, but as a centre back he's no better than what we have already. Malouda or Ribery would probably take the left side, but that's still only two players.

[neekoy]

That's daft though.

Turn that question round; Henry aside, who else would England put in their starting 11 from the French team? Thuram of a few years ago would have been useful instead of Neville, but as a centre back he's no better than what we have already. Malouda or Ribery would probably take the left side, but that's still only two players.

Coupet, Sagnol, Abidal

Malouda and Ribery would take both the right and left sides

This year Carragher has been outstanding and would probably sit next to Terry or Gallas in central defence but IMO an in form Viera and Makelele are a better choice in the centre then Lampard.

So it isn't that daft, you are still only looking at 4 possibly 5 that would keep their positions

[Eddie]

In the first 11 it is a difficult question, but if you made a squad more English players would make it than French. Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville, Carragher, Hargreaves, Joe Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney and Owen would all make a France-England squad. You'd then have several English players in contention, like SWP, Lennon, Bentley, Carrick, Robinson and probably one or two others. England certainly have greater strength in depth then the French and a better first 11 on paper but the French have managed to work out a way of playing. This has been the result of a bit of luck and the coaching staff making some difficult decisions and picking a formation that not everyone thought was best and that the players certainly didn't like at first.

[neekoy]

In the first 11 it is a difficult question, but if you made a squad more English players would make it than French. Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville, Carragher, Hargreaves, Joe Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney and Owen would all make a France-England squad. You'd then have several English players in contention, like SWP, Lennon, Bentley, Carrick, Robinson and probably one or two others. England certainly have greater strength in depth then the French and a better first 11 on paper but the French have managed to work out a way of playing. This has been the result of a bit of luck and the coaching staff making some difficult decisions and picking a formation that not everyone thought was best and that the players certainly didn't like at first.

How big is your squad Eddie? 25 Players I have 6 Englishmen. Have to agree to disagree about the first 11, England don't have the creative quality of Ribery, Malouda, Govou, Anelka and Henry, the toughness in midfield of Makelele and Veira, the quality of depth in the keeping department or the finishing power of the strikers.

Coupet, Frey, Landreau

Abidal, Thuram, Sagnol, Escude, Silvestre, Gallas, Carragher, Terry, Chimbonda??

Lampard, Gerrard, Viera, Ribery, Makelele, Malouda

Trezeguet, Anelka, Cisse, Rooney, Owen, Henry, Govou

[CAPT KAYOS]

England don't have the creative quality of Ribery, Malouda, Govou, Anelka and Henry, the toughness in midfield of Makelele and Veira, the quality of depth in the keeping department or the finishing power of the strikers.

Maybe not as good but might have a bit more and balance if they played people in their rightful positions, and stopped asking them to adopt something different to the normal style they play every week.

ROONEY - is not an out an out goalscorer so shouldn't be relied upon to

OWEN - has been missed , but we do have what should be adequate back up.

SCHOLES - Also missed -Rooney could fill this Role (brain/thinker) will explain later.

GERRARD - Wasted out wide - as I have posted before he is pinnacle IMO to England doing well and must be the one in the middle.

BECKHAM - Drive and thinking on the pitch - missed

What England need is somebody with a 'brain' in the middle (and a manager to kick arse)ie Beckham/Scholes that is intelligent (football wise) and good enough to take things on and be the leader on the pitch (for me now this would be Gerrard/Rooney). Not into this Gerrard and Lampard can't play together - they are good enough and should be intelligent and disciplined enough to know who goes forward and who stays back - if need either one adopts one position and sticks to it.

As mentioned before, to me the set up is all wrong and it should all have been started a afresh before McClaren was installed - there should be natural progression for the under 21's to slot into the side if need, but the set up with Pearce and his part time position just shows how 'important ' the FA think it is.

Edited March 28, 2007 by CAPT KAYOS

[Eddie]

How big is your squad Eddie? 25 Players I have 6 Englishmen. Have to agree to disagree about the first 11, England don't have the creative quality of Ribery, Malouda, Govou, Anelka and Henry, the toughness in midfield of Makelele and Veira, the quality of depth in the keeping department or the finishing power of the strikers.

Coupet, Frey, Landreau

Abidal, Thuram, Sagnol, Escude, Silvestre, Gallas, Carragher, Terry, Chimbonda??

Lampard, Gerrard, Viera, Ribery, Makelele, Malouda

Trezeguet, Anelka, Cisse, Rooney, Owen, Henry, Govou

Well I disagree with a lot of those picks. Govou, Silvestre, Chimbonda and Cisse wouldn't make it. I wouldn't pick Escude or Anelka either. You are then faced with several age arguments and I would probably drop Viera now and replace him with Hargreaves, Thuram would be replaced with someone younger (even just putting Ferdinand in) and Foster would make the squad instead of one of those keepers. The other 6 places would go to Ferdinand (if he replaces Thuram then I would pick another midfielder or striker), Neville, Carragher, A. Cole, J. Cole and Beckham. It is maybe a little short on strikers but 4 in a squad of 25 with several midfielders who can fill in or the choice of changing the formation seems fine to me.

[gazsimm]

if i was the manager for tonight with this squad of players i would pick this team, shame SM won't though

Foster

Richards Rio Terry Carragher

Lennon Gerrard Hargreaves Barry

Rooney Nugent

[Scotty]

My first choice England team, when everyone is fit, would be:

Robinson

Neville Terry Ferdinand Cole

Lennon Hargreaves Gerrard Cole

Rooney Owen

At the moment though, because of injuries to the likes of Joe Cole and Owen, England have 3 main problems.

- They do not have a striker available who is intelligent and sharp enough to play with Rooney.

- They don't have anyone good enough to play wide-left.

- They are imbalanced in central midfield.

So, the first thing I'd do is change the formation. We don't have the players available to play 4-4-2 at the moment so I'd switch to 4-3-3. I'd go for:

Robinson

Richards Terry Ferdinand Cole

Gerrard Hargreaves Lampard

Rooney Lennon

Davies

First of all, we need a target man for the forwards to play off. The only one's I can think of who are currently fit are Davies and Crouch. Ashton would be an option when he's fit as well. Rooney and Lennon would then be able to play a free role behind the target man and do what they are best at - run at defenders.

Hargreaves could play the holding role in midfield allowing both Lampard and Gerrard to break forward and do what they are best at. Both full backs would provide the width (my first choice at right-back would still be Neville but Richards will do as a replacement).

It's basically the same way that Chelsea play. Unfortunately though, England's players aren't as good as Chelsea's!

[Flopsy]

Is it wrong to really really really want Andora to win tonight?

Im off to watch 300 instead of watching what is likely to be a game of utter tossness.

Godbless the cricket

[gazsimm]

My first choice England team, when everyone is fit, would be:

Robinson

Neville Terry Ferdinand Cole

Lennon Hargreaves Gerrard Cole

Rooney Owen

At the moment though, because of injuries to the likes of Joe Cole and Owen, England have 3 main problems.

- They do not have a striker available who is intelligent and sharp enough to play with Rooney.

- They don't have anyone good enough to play wide-left.

- They are imbalanced in central midfield.

So, the first thing I'd do is change the formation. We don't have the players available to play 4-4-2 at the moment so I'd switch to 4-3-3. I'd go for:

Robinson

Richards Terry Ferdinand Cole

Gerrard Hargreaves Lampard

Rooney Lennon

Davies

First of all, we need a target man for the forwards to play off. The only one's I can think of who are currently fit are Davies and Crouch. Ashton would be an option when he's fit as well. Rooney and Lennon would then be able to play a free role behind the target man and do what they are best at - run at defenders.

Hargreaves could play the holding role in midfield allowing both Lampard and Gerrard to break forward and do what they are best at. Both full backs would provide the width (my first choice at right-back would still be Neville but Richards will do as a replacement).

It's basically the same way that Chelsea play. Unfortunately though, England's players aren't as good as Chelsea's!

Davies for england no way

[bellamy11]

We could do a lot worse than Davies (cue tnr dragging back a post from 2 years ago where he suggested it first). Charisteas worked wonders for Greece in 04. I'd stick with AJ though - he's a good player. He has pace, movement and can finish. Our problem, IMO, is that when we try these new strikers they don't get a run of games unless they immediately score. Look at what has happened to James Beattie.

When Dean Ashton comes back I expect him to start getting into squads with regularity, provided he can recapture his good form after a long injury.