USA 1 Italy 1

[herbergeehh]

Sorry, I won't bother to read through all the posts on here, but I'm sure some of them relates to the sending offs and the game in general. Perhaps.

Disappointed in Italy, Zaccardo had an awful game and should be replaced by Grosso for the next one. What de Rossi was thinking I guess we will never know, he's a tough player, but he's usually a very fair one, so I was disappointed to see that blatant elbow on the runaway bride. This unfortunately took Totti out of the game, and changed everything for Italy - 4-3-2 doesn't fit Italy at all with Pirlo as the only passing midfielder. The 1st half was poor anyway, but up until the red card I could see Italy take all three points on experience and attacking class. After that, it was anyone's game.

The two U.S sending offs, in my opinion, was okay. The first one (who got a straight red) could be seen as a bit harsh, but it was a very dangerous tackle that could have ended Pirlo's season easily. Pope's two yellows was exactly that - two yellows - and therefore the red was okay. Simple as that! I don't think it should make a difference whether he has a yellow card or not, it's Pope's job to control himself when he knows he has a warning already.

Roll on the Czechs, forza Italia.

Edit: Just read your post, Lathund, and I thought I should add that I fully agree with everything in it.

Edited June 18, 2006 by herbergeehh

[speeeeeeedie]

The USA were unlucky. They played quite well. The only sending off I would question is Mastroeni. A straight red would have been harsh, I thought he'd already been booked, if so he had to go for his second yellow. The ref was stood right next to him when he tackled and I reckon that from where the ref was it looked like a two footed lunge. The question has to be asked; what was he doing putting in a tackle like that with 1 minute to half time near the opposition box?

For Pope to get the same ban as De Rossi is not on, De Rossi should get at least 2 games.

[Shevchenko]

I reckon that from where the ref was it looked like a two footed lunge.

That's because it was a two footed lunge.

[herbergeehh]

For Pope to get the same ban as De Rossi is not on, De Rossi should get at least 2 games.

Definitely. I thought two yellows meant less punishment than direct red anyway?

De Rossi has apologized and says he never intended to hurt McBride, and I believe him. He's always been a tough player, but he's also been an honest one. It was a bad elbow, and if it had been somebody else I would not be in doubt about the player's intention. Anyway, a two match ban would be fair.

[Shevchenko]

Didn't Leonardo get 4 matches for an elbow in the world cup back in 94?

So two matches, I don't think so.

Would be getting off lightly in that case.

[USRoverME]

a draw is the best I can expect for Sam's Army, likely 1-1, with goals from Toni and Brian McBride.

okay, so I called the score, but I missed the Italian goal scorer. McBride was right there fr the OG, so I'll give myself that one! I missed the 3 reds, how silly of me!

IMHO, Derossi's red was fin, Pablo's was a certain yellow, and after seeing the replays, I can see the points of those who agree that it was a red, but I disagree. whether that's being a homer or a fan, I dunno, but I was so shocked when the red came out that I threw a magazine at my in-laws TV (much to the hatred of my father-in-law). As for the decision to make the tackle, it was stupid for Pablo to make that challenge.

As for Pope, I think that was the weaker of the two reds, I can see the second Pope foul being a yellow, but not sure ont he first. I'm not sure I could find it in my heart to even send off a Scum player for those two tackles, especially given the WC stage. Thena gain, I'm not a WC ref.

I would have loved to see that game stay 11 v 11 since I think the USA were the more attacking and dominant side. The Italian goal was against the run of play, imho, and completely due to Pope playing a 1 man offside trap, the worst defensive play in the game.

I'm happy with the point since its what we needed, but I'm very disappointed in what we had to endure to get it. That last 20 mins of that game was just not a WC game, watching it (and re-watching it last night on tape) was just too surreal, it was like watching bad highschool soccer.

As for Arena, ugh, I used to think highly of him, and I'm really doubting his ability now, no way should Beasley ever see a USA shirt ever again. When you ahve 9 men on the pitch, and you are a second half sub, there is no excuse for you standing around, NOT backtracking on Defence and NOT trying to use every ounce of pace you have to get around what had to be exhausted Italian defenders! Inexcusable.

[herbergeehh]

As for Pope, I think that was the weaker of the two reds, I can see the second Pope foul being a yellow, but not sure ont he first. I'm not sure I could find it in my heart to even send off a Scum player for those two tackles, especially given the WC stage. Thena gain, I'm not a WC ref.

I can't believe you don't think the first one was a yellow, Gilardino was going past him when he blatantly put his arm around him and pulled him down. With Gilardino past the last defender, a yellow card was the only option when he blew the whistle in the first place.

On a side note, John Paintsil, who plays for Hapoel Tel Aviv in Israel, celebrated with an Israeli flag against the Czechs. But not to worry, he wasn't taking a political stand, he wasn't aware of the situation actually! Living in a bubble..?

[Eddie]

On a side note, John Paintsil, who plays for Hapoel Tel Aviv in Israel, celebrated with an Israeli flag against the Czechs. But not to worry, he wasn't taking a political stand, he wasn't aware of the situation actually! Living in a bubble..?

Thank you for explaining that, I have been thinking about that for ages, he did it at the end and after both goals, it was most odd.

[herbergeehh]

Yes, I couldn't for the life of me understand why a Ghanese would have such allegiance to Israel's "cause" either, but it was merely a thank-you to his Israeli fans according to the players agent. Still find it pretty amazing to live in Israel without being aware of the situation, but these footballers..

[neekoy]

Would have been better if the goal was scored against Iran

[USRoverME]

I can't believe you don't think the first one was a yellow, Gilardino was going past him when he blatantly put his arm around him and pulled him down. With Gilardino past the last defender, a yellow card was the only option when he blew the whistle in the first place.

Well, I'll have to watch again, because that's not the foul I have in my head for Pope's first yellow... must have it confused.... my bad.

[herbergeehh]

No problem, I feel pretty sure it was Pope who got that yellow. The referee also gave Totti a silly yellow card in the 1st half, there's no doubt he was very trigger-happy in this match, but for the reds I don't think you can blame him much - he was consequently harsh at least.

Edited June 21, 2006 by herbergeehh

[Eddie]

Yes, Pope got his first yellow after a long ball was played over the top and he pulled an attacker down around the halfway line when he was the last man.

[Philly Rover ®]

The constant whining at how Italy cheated (Not necessarily on here), getting the word "cheat" into every sentence etc. just makes me wish Italy had won the game. So incredibly sore "losers" after drawing a game 1-1 where you had ZERO shots on target... Italy don't dive more than other teams, but because people watch their games knowing their reputation they interpret anything as a dive. Been shown in countless psychological experiments that people see what they want to see.

Not to re-open an old debate here, Lathund, and I haven't seen Italy's penalty from today yet... BUT from what it sounds like, Grosso threw himself down to win the penalty for the Azzuri. You still think Italy don't dive more than other teams?

[Lathund]

I still feel that way yes. They're better at it maybe, but if you watched the game today I think you'd have found that it was the only time it happened (And a ridiculous dive from Gattuso of all people in his own half that resulted in nothing). Basicly when Italy play they could go a whole game, or several games, without any dives, but when it does happen once people will go "Cheating @#/?s!!! They always dive".

It's not like they fell over as soon as an Aussie came near... so speaking of quantity no they don't dive more. Fans of teams with a more "honest" (hah!) reputation like England or the U.S ignore their own players cheating but are quick to jump onto teams with a worse reputation.

[Philly Rover ®]

Ignore my own players diving? No American has ever taken a dive in our national team history. It's only the greasy Italians and the pretty boy Portuguese and Spanish that dive all game, every game.

One thing I will stand by that I said throughout the World Cup is the fact that the referees are far too willing to influence the outcome of the games. Now I haven't seen the Neill penalty--so I could be talking complete crap here--but from what it sounds like, it was a debatable penalty at best. I'm still of the opinion that things like red cards and spot kicks should not be given lightly... better to err on the side of not giving them, and thus not influencing the outcome of the game, than to give them and have it be a highly questionable decision. In the end, the referees should let the players decide the game.

Of course, it's all a matter of opinion.

[Drakefyre]

I feel like the Americans aren't experienced enough internationally or in Europe to dive often/well.

[joey_big_nose]

I feel like the Americans aren't experienced enough internationally or in Europe to dive often/well.

Thats sort of true. England fans/commentators/pundits/managers used to be very 'diving is shameless cheating that should be driven out of the game'. But now as we are quite good at it, particularly Owen, we aren't so bothered. Its almost getting to the point where it is just accepted as part of football.

Disgraceful.

[Philly Rover ®]

Its almost getting to the point where it is just accepted as part of football.

Disgraceful.

Spot on, joey. It'd be interesting to see if anyone (be it FIFA, the FA, what have you) has done a study on what effect handing out yellow cards for diving has had, if any. If I remember correctly, it was a rule put in a few years back to try to clamp down on precisely the crap that Grosso pulled today... but somehow I doubt it's done anything to limit the diving whatsoever.

Please, listen to Eric Cantona

Edited June 27, 2006 by Philly Rover ®

[American]

I still feel that way yes. They're better at it maybe, but if you watched the game today I think you'd have found that it was the only time it happened (And a ridiculous dive from Gattuso of all people in his own half that resulted in nothing). Basicly when Italy play they could go a whole game, or several games, without any dives, but when it does happen once people will go "Cheating @#/?s!!! They always dive".

It's not like they fell over as soon as an Aussie came near... so speaking of quantity no they don't dive more. Fans of teams with a more "honest" (hah!) reputation like England or the U.S ignore their own players cheating but are quick to jump onto teams with a worse reputation.

Again, it was amazing how they could be stretchered off the field then run back on less than a minute later. They dive more than anyone but the Indigo Girls (and maybe Freddie Lundgberg!! ).

[Florida Rover]

It would appear that the stats back up the assertation that the Italians are the worst buch of divers so far in this tournament. Here is an excerpt from today's Guardian:

"In light of the wayward officiating at this World Cup, which team has given referees the most hassle?" ponders Leo Green.

To best answer your question, Leo, we decided to call upon the all-knowing - if a little geeky - online oracle that is: www.informationbuilders.co.uk/ontheball/ which tells us, through the medium of graphs, statistics and suchlike, that the Italians are the biggest handful for World Cup referees. According to their figures, in the four games Italy have played, they've been guilty of 25 dives (more than any other team), four instances of referee-bullying (only Croatia are greater official tormenters), seven fake injuries and two expulsions.

Australia, however, are the dirtiest side in the tournament thus far. Guus Hiddink's men did little to refute pre-tournament allegations that they were over-aggressive by committing 100 fouls, two more than Ghana, 11 more than Mexico and Holland and 47 more than an angelic Brazil.

Full link

[Oklahoma]

Sorry but those stats are wrong.

It only has 11 dives for Portugal, the same as England.

So, it is wrong!