Fans Behaviour

[McClarky]

Have England fans been behaving themselves over in Germany so far?

I was in Cologne on Saturday and watched the game in the Fanfest in the city centre. There were a few thousand England fans there and there was a really good atmosphere with no sign of any trouble. I did see a couple of English lads being arrested on Friday though. A few idiots were singing about bombers in a pub on Sunday as well which most people found embarrasing in a city of which 90% was destroyed in the war. You couldn't get a more friendly and welcoming people than the Germans and some people are still banging on about things from 60 odd years ago, D*ckheads.

If anyone is off to Cologne next week its a great place with loads of great pubs. My advice would be to avoid the Corkonian as it is an Irish pub and seems to attract the scumbags but apart from that its great. If you haven't got a ticket the Fanfest is right near the station but you'll need to get there early as its not that bis. The stadium is miles away. The beer is great as well.

[sleepyjack]

I was in Frankfurt from Friday until Monday and didn't see any trouble at all, aside from a few silly drunks. Heard that there were a few scuffles on the Friday after Germany won, but didn't see anything as we were outside the city centre that night. To be honest I expected far worse and was pleasantly surprised by how well everyone got on.

Agree about how welcoming the Germans have been, didn't meet a single unfriendly person on the whole trip.

[Paul]

The only trouble reported in the UK media is of two England fans arrested by the German police. The offence by one was to paint the SS insignia on his back and the swastika on his chest, the other had the SS insignia on his back. The images were 8" high.

As I understand it these two were released by the German police but not deported. They have since returned to the UK, one with both insignia on his body has been prosecuted and given a football banning order, the one with just the SS insignia on his back was not given a banning order.

I understand this type of display of Nazi imagery is illegal in Germany. So they seem to have been dealt with leniently by the German authorities.

[modes98]

It's been good so far, loads of chanting but what do you expect!

Only trouble we have encountered has been on our campsite with some english being thrown out and in a club croatia and france fans going at it!

It is very hot out here today, glad to be in a air conditioned net cafe!

[cletus]

All the British TV news crews are trolling around Nurembourg today looking, nay praying for a decent kick-off they can report on.

People having fun & enjoying themselves is not big news.

[SAS]

aye kicked off a bit on friday night

with germans on way back from game, but about 300 police stormed the square and all was well

as you can see, almost as many media people than fans

more pictures of the scuffles on my site - http://www.freewebs.com/slater_scott/engla...nsingermany.htm

[Ste B]

I understand this type of display of Nazi imagery is illegal in Germany. So they seem to have been dealt with leniently by the German authorities.

What is a joke is that a Rovers shirt is apparently Nazi imagery, as JPW wasnt allowed into the Aus v Japan game with it.

[SouthAussieRover]

I wonder if these fans' behaviour will get splashed all over the world media?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5081684.stm

[sleepyjack]

The BBC is part of the world media...

[bob fleming]

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QUOTE(Ste B @ Jun 14 2006, 22:27 ) 415396[/snapback]

What is a joke is that a Rovers shirt is apparently Nazi imagery, as JPW wasnt allowed into the Aus v Japan game with it.

That's the Lonsdale logo Ste. I kid you not.

[ABBEY]

why?

[bob fleming]

I read about it a while ago - this is the gist of it. - it's a Euro thing.

[SAS]

haha thats quality

[Flopsy]

You couldn't get a more friendly and welcoming people than the Germans and some people are still banging on about things from 60 odd years ago, D*ckheads.

The Nazis are something they should not be allowed to forget, or try and fob off as ony a small group that had no real support.

The same way as the behaviour of Stalin and the communists in Russia, the conduct of the Japanese and other types of mass genocide should not be forgotton because it happened 60 years ago.

A couple of hundred years, yes but 60?? no

Systematic rape, torture, murder, genocide, slavery and the total disregard of human life should never be forgiven. The same as some of the Allied bombing of the German cities should not just be dismissed as "one of those things that happens in war" Some of it is justifiable. the raids on some cities in 1945 was not, and instead was due to people justifying their fiefdoms and also an act of revenge. If they'd have concentrated on oil facilities the war would have been over a lot quicker.

Still history is rubbish isnt it and not worth knowing

[LDRover]

Fair play to the Germans though, they've kept the arena in Nuremburg (albeit in a state of disrepair) where Hitler spoke to thousands as a reminder of the past and how lessons should be learnt.

[Oklahoma]

I was in holland recently and i wore my rovers shirt and training gear there. Both have Lonsdale written on it.

So they now probably think I'm a nazy

Maybe that's why I wasn't lucky with the ladies... or maybe it was just my looks...

[neekoy]

The Nazis are something they should not be allowed to forget, or try and fob off as ony a small group that had no real support.

The same way as the behaviour of Stalin and the communists in Russia, the conduct of the Japanese and other types of mass genocide should not be forgotton because it happened 60 years ago.

A couple of hundred years, yes but 60?? no

Systematic rape, torture, murder, genocide, slavery and the total disregard of human life should never be forgiven. The same as some of the Allied bombing of the German cities should not just be dismissed as "one of those things that happens in war" Some of it is justifiable. the raids on some cities in 1945 was not, and instead was due to people justifying their fiefdoms and also an act of revenge. If they'd have concentrated on oil facilities the war would have been over a lot quicker.

Still history is rubbish isnt it and not worth knowing

I don't think they are ever going to forget it Flops, I think they have enough monuments around the country to remind there people of the attrocoties that occured. Why though should we inflame a situation that the people are deeply ashamed of and probably will be for the rest of their lives.

And before you start talking of genocide and systematic rape, torture, murder and slavery maybe you should not forget your own countries behaviour in the past. Surely wrongs have to be forgotten someday.

In the meantime some massive trouble after the Poland vs Germany game.

Edited June 15, 2006 by neekoy

[Flopsy]

And before you start talking of genocide and systematic rape, torture, murder and slavery maybe you should not forget your own countries behaviour in the past.

I havent, although mass organised rape, torture and deliberate genocide is not really something that can be thrown at the british empire in the last 300 years. Gross negligence leading directly or indirectly to millions of deaths, yes. A systematic program to remove whole peoples from the planet by working them to death or gassing them, no.

Although the Concentration camp is a British invention although designed to keep a populous out of the hands of insurgents and not to deliberately kill them. Although kill them we did. Again something to remember and not to forget.

Also a number Germans and David Irvine, are trying very hard to pretend the excesses of the Nazis were confined to a small portion of the population and everyone else just went along due to fear. That is patent rubbish. The majority of Germans were quite happy to go along with the Nazis and their behaviour in eastern europe is something that couldnt have been carried out by a few hardliners.

Forgiven yes, forgotten no. Ask most germans why the Nazis came into power, and its due to the Versaille treaty. The fact that they started the first world war by implementing the Schliefen Plan is convienently overlooked.

Id recommend that people have a look at Max "I love the Wermacht" Hastings' rather excellent book Armagedon. Which gives an idea of what went on on the Russian front of teh 2nd World War and the attrocities carried out by both sides. Hes fairly even handed, pointing out that the main internal resistence to Hitler only really started when it was obvious that the Germans were starting to lose.

[neekoy]

I'm not saying it wasn't horrible Flopsy, what I am saying as that through my travels through Germany, is that the German people are continually trying to write the past and there is no reason to crucify the next generation of Germans (by painting nazi images on your body) for the wrongs they are desperately trying to right.

Yes the majority of Germans loved the prosporous times of the war, but 60 years of national disgrace is punishing enough without some idiot who is using symbols to inflame football rivalries.

Edited June 15, 2006 by neekoy

[Flopsy]

I never said that, I said that the german people should not be allowed to forget. Swastikers/hitler salutes 10 german bombers is crass and wrong but the deeper meaning, which is the point i was trying to get across is that what happened under the Nazis (and stalin) is so abhorrent that it should never be forgotton.

Anyway if you want to talk about the attempt to remove and destroy cultures we could always ask about the ideginous population of your fair isle?

Rabbit Proof Fence wasnt a made up situation was it?

[Oklahoma]

Flopsy, in Germany during the WWII, there were underground movements to inform people of what was going on in the war.

One of them was known as "White Rose". Their members tried to inform people of what was happening and were executed 24 hours after their "trial".

Just to put in perspective, should people treat USA and England people bad just because your leaders decided to invade a country on a false purpose?

[ABBEY]

its a fans thread not a history thread cmon england .

[neekoy]

Anyway if you want to talk about the attempt to remove and destroy cultures we could always ask about the ideginous population of your fair isle?

Rabbit Proof Fence wasnt a made up situation was it?

Rabbit proof fence was a movie based on a book called Molly's daughter. Alledgedly about two young girls from the 'stolen generation', which was the white people trying to give aboriginal children learned and safe homes.

Funny that there are now calls from within the indigenous population to bring back forced removal of children.

We don't destroy cultures, we liberate against tribal law that allows the rape of children and the murder and sexual abuse of women.

They can have the finger paintings, just be civilised.

[SouthAussieRover]

The BBC is part of the world media...

No kidding Einstein.

I said the world media not a part of it :ph34r:

[blue phil]

Anyway if you want to talk about the attempt to remove and destroy cultures we could always ask about the ideginous population of your fair isle?

.....or even parts of this isle ?

(Maybe we should stick to the footy .... )