Fans Behaviour

[Rovers Air Force]

I havent, although mass organized rape, torture and deliberate genocide is not really something that can be thrown at the British empire in the last 300 years. Gross negligence leading directly or indirectly to millions of deaths, yes. A systematic program to remove whole peoples from the planet by working them to death or gassing them, no.

Although the Concentration camp is a British invention although designed to keep a populous out of the hands of insurgents and not to deliberately kill them. Although kill them we did. Again something to remember and not to forget.

India?

Zimbabwe?

Crimea?

Australia?

off the top of my head! Just because nobody reported it does not mean it did not happen!

[McClarky]

The Nazis are something they should not be allowed to forget, or try and fob off as ony a small group that had no real support.

Agree entirely but singing songs about German bombers in pubs full of people from all over the world having a beer and a good time together is hardly the way to do it. I'm not saying forget but I am saying lets move on and not embarrass ourselves.

[Flopsy]

India?

Zimbabwe?

Crimea?

Australia?

off the top of my head! Just because nobody reported it does not mean it did not happen!

it wasnt mass organised rape or torture was it?

The British Empire was in no way the shining gem that some would like but compared to some others it is not bad at all.

[herbergeehh]

I'm sorry Flopsy, but I find your view a bit offensive on behalf of all Germans. The war shouldn't be forgotten, I agree, but what is your point exactly? It's not like it was the German people who invaded half of Europe, gased Jews and so on, it was Hitler and his Nazi government. It's as if I should blame American for the Vietnam war. (or you, for the appeasement policy that allowed Hitler to expand in the first place!)

This was the first time the Nazi's showed their ugly face on a large scale. People didn't really know what to think, it was the 1930's and the whole country was in a crisis. Massive unemployment and other social problems had flourished since the stock market collapsed in '29, and when Hitler helped the country on it's feet (or promised to do so), he became a popular man - like he probably would in all countries. Then they started brainwashing people, he got elected, and the rest is history. (well everything is..)

It could have happened basically anywhere (nationalism was flourishing all over Europe) and it's not something to hold against the majority of the German population. Silly chants and gestures, and as mentioned above - there's enough things to remind us of the 2nd world war, I wouldn't feel the least bit sorry for the tosser who get's jailed for this. (probably won't happen though)

Oh, and Abbey, it's a thread on fan behaviour, this part of the debate is the very important background

Edited June 16, 2006 by herbergeehh

[Flopsy]

I'm sorry Flopsy, but I find your view a bit offensive on behalf of all Germans. The war shouldn't be forgotten, I agree, but what is your point exactly? It's not like it was the German people who invaded half of Europe, gased Jews and so on, it was Hitler and his Nazi government.

The german people and army (on the whole - some very brave people saw the evil from the start) were quite happy to go along with it untill they began to lose.

They ignored what was happening to teh Jews and some worked in collusion with the matter.

As I said - Forgive but do not forget

[blue phil]

What did you expect the average bloke on the street to do about it , Flops ? Organise a demo ? Stand for public office and try and change the system that way (as you constantly say ad nauseum) ? What would you have done ?

[speeeeeeedie]

Flopsy you are on one here. I don't know what you are on about. It seems that you are having a go at the Germans and holding a grudge for something that happened a while ago and you have no recollection of as you were not around.

I don't think forgiving has anything to do with forgetting.

Think before you write, you are making yourself look stupid.

[philipl]

This thread is excellent news.

All the fans in Germany are behaving themselves.

[Exiled_Rover]

It's as if I should blame American for the Vietnam war. (or you, for the appeasement policy that allowed Hitler to expand in the first place!)

Actually that's the Yank's fault again for pulling out of the League of Nations, but I digress

On a related note, it seems like our lads are behaving themselves, which is nice to see.

[American]

It was a great atmosphere in Nuremberg, though things started to go a tad sour after the first half. I was more worried about the crush of people after the match starting a problem.

(For those interested in seeing pics, you can go HERE

(Let me know if the link doesn't work).

[Oklahoma]

Great photos, American!

[snatchymcsnatch]

Great photos, American!

Yeah top notch - any chance of some video footage for us armchairs?

[USABlue]

I never said that, I said that the german people should not be allowed to forget. Swastikers/hitler salutes 10 german bombers is crass and wrong but the deeper meaning, which is the point i was trying to get across is that what happened under the Nazis (and stalin) is so abhorrent that it should never be forgotton.

Anyway if you want to talk about the attempt to remove and destroy cultures we could always ask about the ideginous population of your fair isle?

Rabbit Proof Fence wasnt a made up situation was it?

Agree, but let's remember it on a differnet Forum. Footy here, not the holocaust thank you very much.

[herbergeehh]

Still think you're blaming innocent people Flopsy, but as USABlue says - that debate doesn't fit in this thread. Good to hear that people behave themselves!

[SouthAussieRover]

Don't know about the fans but I love the reactions of Klinsmann on the touchline.

Passionate and acting like a supporter. As opposed to the morbid SGE who acts as frigid as ermmm....

[Oklahoma]

Well, here is a recent update.

122 english people arrested yesterday in Stuttgart and today 200 in Stuttgart in the majority english.

BBC

Edited June 24, 2006 by Oklahoma

[philipl]

The Guardian on the fans' behaviour: http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/...1805578,00.html

So very positive.

Must admit I fear for Stuttgart this evening- win or lose.

[Paul]

Must admit I fear for Stuttgart this evening- win or lose.

Me too. I dearly hope the reporter is right when he says that without the hooligan leaders the mindless few are lost. It may not be Stuttgart tonight but if we come home from the WC without a major riot it will be a very positive and significant achievement. Who should take the praise is an interesting question.

[philipl]

Watching the game yesterday evening, I was thinking that but for 150 morons in Brussels in 2000, the World Cup would probably have been played in England.

[Modi]

Interesting interview with one the senior British police officers over there.

He said something along the lines of that when the 60k fans turn up they aren't expecting too much trouble as they would be there to enjoy the football and themselves. He was suggesting that the arrests and trouble so far are from the typical idiots who tag themselves onto football as a way of masking their loathsome behaviour.

Probably has a very valid point.

[Oklahoma]

Here in Portugal 2004 all was quiet, with the exception of some problems in the Algarve.

Which was interesting cause England's closest game was in Lisbon. So it was just a bunch of idiots that got arrested and were sent home.

Edited June 25, 2006 by Oklahoma

[SAS]

The Guardian on the fans' behaviour: http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/...1805578,00.html

So very positive.

Must admit I fear for Stuttgart this evening- win or lose.

from what ive seen/heard, i fear for the english fans not stuttgart as it seems the germans and police are targetting them

[dave birch]

On TV here, they talked about how the English and German fans clashed, put the blame on the English supporters whilst showing tape of the (very obvious) German fans heaving chairs tables etc at what I presume were English fans.

[yorkblues]

it was on sky news more germans than english and we get the blame again

[greggyk]

lets on kidd ourselve, during the Germany game, 100's of English fans were singing '10 German bombers' which Sky News accently of course showed about 5secs of, without even talking about it. Then, since that moment very early on in the afternoon, no news station has chosen to show that again.

What did they expect to happen, the Germans just to ignor them?