England 2 Trinidad And Tobago 0

[brfcshabba]

Jermaine Jenas isn't likely to play in the World cup. Why didn't he take a striker in place of him

[rover6]

The debate about Sven being a good England manager or a bad England manager is, imo, a bit like the argument of whether Winston Churchill is one of the greatest Britons ever.

It seems to leave very little room for non-partisans.

I side with Paul, in believing that Sven is not a good England manager. For so long he has pandered to the egos of his big players. It's only in this tournament (and the squad selection) he actually had the balls to back his own judgment. I very much doubt that Michael Owen would have been subbed in a prior tournament. It seems that with him leaving after this tournament (and escaping the media and public criticism) he has started to act more like a manager.

I am not one who objects to a foreign manager being at the helm - but one who is not aware of England having any rivalry with Australia - I do. One who gives the national captaincy to Emile Heskey and Phil Neville (albeit for only part of a game) I do. One who allows the players to dictate the tactics in the lead up to a tournament (Euro 2004) I do. One who brings on Owen Hargreaves in crucial games, yet never gives him a real chance to stake a claim in his favoured position in friendlies, I do wholly object to.

And that list of peccadillos excludes his off-pitch blunders.

However, as hinted above, Sven seems to have got his finger out (at the very end of his regime) and the subs against Trinidad were good and positive. That doesn't explain, imo, why he is playing Joe Cole on the left wing (mark my words, he will not impress against decent teams in an unfamiliar positioN) or why he hasn't sorted out the Lamps-Gerrard partnership or why he didn't take 5 strikers.

And as for Steve McClaren - a joke appointment by the English FA. He will be cheaper and possibly a mild upgrade on Sven but the man will be out of his depth in the tournaments.

Edited June 16, 2006 by rover6

[Scotty]

There's some very strange comments on this thread (aside from the predictable rubbish from the Neekoy numpty).

First of all I didn't see too much wrong with England's central midfield pairing. It's not as if T & T were winning lots of tackles in midfield and carving through us at regular intervals. All T & T did was sit deep - frequently having 9 or 10 players behind the ball. So the game almost became a training exercise, our attack against their defence.

The thing we lacked I thought was width. Beckham and Cole roamed infield too much into already congested areas and, dare I say it, we missed Neville's attacking runs down the right. Carragher's a great defender but he's not the best going forward. Only Ashley Cole consistently supplied any width for the first hour. It was noticeable that we started to create chances towards the end of the first half when Beckham stayed wide.

In addition, we played the long ball to Crouch's head too often. We need to mix it up more, play the ball into the striker's feet, and link up midfield and attack more often.

In the second half the much maligned Sven sorted this out with his substitutions. He put on Lennon, Downing and Rooney, and suddenly we had genuine width down both flanks and had someone dropping deep to link play up. We battered T & T in that last half hour and fully deserved the two goals we got.

There's no doubt in my mind that we'll play better against a team that's prepared to attack us rather than just defend for 90 minutes.

England good points: Our defence looks as solid as any team's I've seen so far. Ashley Cole showed signs that he was coming back to form last night. Beckham, in the main, is playing well and his crossing is superb. Crouch has caused both the teams he's faced so far lots of problems and took his goal superbly yesterday. Rooney's back. I thought Gerrard was our man of the match yesterday and has played well in both games. We finished the game strongly and there were no questions about our fitness or stamina. We have substitutes who are capable of changing a game.

Bad points: Both Lampard and Owen look out of form. The midfield balance could be a problem when we play against a good team. Robinson seems to have been taking lessons from James when it comes to dealing with crosses.

Overall we've played 2 and won 2 without playing anything like our best. We're already through to the last 16 and our best player is back from injury. Personally, I'm just really looking forward to the next games, I think we've got a real chance in this competition.

[ABBEY]

Because if he'd taken one or even two of Defoe/Bent/Johnson/Beattie then he wouldve had to drop a couple of midfielders or defenders and then people wouldve complained that the depth in those areas was too thin. Your only allowed a 23 man squad. Unless you think Owen and Rooney shouldve been left at home?

derr walcott....derrrr...jenas...derrrrr.....downing

Edited June 16, 2006 by ABBEY

[AlanK]

The midfield isn`t a problem, its THE problem.

We have one of if not the best midfields in the world and every time our defence had the ball they lumped it over the midfield.

Every time the ball rolled invitingly out of the opponents penalty area and you just waited for Gerrard to come and blast it in to the top corner he was in the centre circle.

The midfield could not pick out Owens runs and play the killer ball as it had sailed over them already. Cue Owen off and looking poor.

It was bloody shocking.

its not rocket science is it?

Either J. Cole or Frank are going to have to make way for a holding player so we can tell our Stevie to go play his football.

Edited June 16, 2006 by AlanK

[RevidgeBlue]

Sven does seem to have an uncanny knack of scraping out results from the poorest of performances. I suspect it is more down to luck than good judgement.

I thought we were abysmal for 57 minutes yesterday and not too bad after the two subs came on. But if Lennon and Rooney can come on and play with energy and determination, why can't the rest?

Two great results, two awful performances. I'm sure these players can play a lot better than that, whether we will or not remains to be seen. If we don't our participation in the knockout stages will be shortlived.

Tony Cottee came out with a phrase I fully agree with. "We have the players to win the World Cup and the manager to lose it"

[Paul]

Paul some SGE moments -

1) 4-0 vs Spain

2) 1-5 vs Germany

3) 1-0 Argentina

4) 3-2 Argentina

5) 5-0 Jamaica

I'm not sure a 6-0 friendly against Jamaica really counts but I'll let you have it. So we have five memorable matches in five years at a cost of £25 million. We had more under Souness, and a hell of a lot more under Hughes. Now I know the comparison isn't fair so lets not go there.

I don't care what nationality our manager is, though watching Klinsman's reaction against Poland tells you a lot, I just don't feel SGE has/is doing the job. This squad should be up there with Brazil in terms of the fear factor. Some of the finest players in current world football are playing long ball kick and hope. Where are the ideas, the creativity? I think England have players who might win the world cup but on form to date I still see them going out in round 2. We desperately need a perfromance against Sweden and then again versus Ecuador/Germany. Lets pray it's not Germany in their own backyard, if it is the team really have to lift themselves. If England progress to the final stages of this competition it will be despite, not because of, SGE.

I really hope this team realises the problem and simply goes out and plays to its potential

[CAPT KAYOS]

Tony Cottee came out with a phrase I fully agree with. "We have the players to win the World Cup and the manager to lose it"

Something I mentioned quite a while ago RB. - Looks like TC reads this MB as well

Personally I don't think Prof Slaphead should have been in charge the minute they said he was being replaced (never mind appointing him in the first place) however I feel the team and possibly Prof Slaphead should be given a bit of slack at the moment.

They have done what they have had to do and got into the knockout stages without playing well yet not really looking like we have had any problems.

The proof of the pudding will start now, we do have the players and I feel the players will rise to the occasion when required . Whether we get to the Final or not is a different matter and could well depend on Owen reagaining anything that gets him back looking like a top striker and as Alan K has stated - getting Gerrard forward.

Forget Rooney, IMO Stevie G is our most influential and important player and could be the lynchpin on which Englands destiny lies in this tournament.

[speeeeeeedie]

T&T wasn't as boring as Paraguay but in the cold light of day we've won both and are moving on.

I too wonder about our performances, and I think we need to drop Crouch to make us play it on the ground, but with Owen looking lethargic it may not happen. Sven tends to stick to what he's got, but you have to give him credit for having the ba!!s to switch it up. We completely changed when Lennon came on, not just for the fact that he ran at players but it gave Beckham more space. T&T played for a draw and nearly got it.

We should play Rooney against Sweden, get our first 11 out there to get ready for a long run!

[mjs]

I know it has been said by many before but there is no way we will win this World Cup with Lampard and Gerrard as our central midfield pairing. They are ineffective against lesser opposition so I don't hold out much hope for when we play the better teams.

Neither of them seems to know whether they should be playing the holding role or if they should be supporting in attack. The sad thing is that SGE doesn't know either. He just picks them both because they are supposedly the best players (and they play for one of the top four).

We have one of the truly world class midfield players in Gerrard but are currently wasting his talents. Bring Carrick in to do the spade work, as he uses the ball brilliantly and will add some fluency and quality to our approach play, leave Lampard on the bench and let Gerrard play where he can hurt opposing teams (deep in their half). Unfortunatley SGE won't do it because he hasn't got the bullocks.

Add to this a half fit Owen and Rooney, a less than quality Crouch (Abbey is right, he wouldn't be anywhere the England team if he didn't play for Liverpool) a very raw back-up in Walcott, and things are currently not looking too promising.

I really want to be eating my words on 9th July.

Edited June 16, 2006 by mjs

[Flopsy]

I'm not sure a 6-0 friendly against Jamaica really counts but I'll let you have it. So we have five memorable matches in five years at a cost of £25 million. We had more under Souness, and a hell of a lot more under Hughes. Now I know the comparison isn't fair so lets not go there.

I don't care what nationality our manager is, though watching Klinsman's reaction against Poland tells you a lot, I just don't feel SGE has/is doing the job. This squad should be up there with Brazil in terms of the fear factor. Some of the finest players in current world football are playing long ball kick and hope. Where are the ideas, the creativity? I think England have players who might win the world cup but on form to date I still see them going out in round 2. We desperately need a perfromance against Sweden and then again versus Ecuador/Germany. Lets pray it's not Germany in their own backyard, if it is the team really have to lift themselves. If England progress to the final stages of this competition it will be despite, not because of, SGE.

I really hope this team realises the problem and simply goes out and plays to its potential

Its not all SGE's fault. Surely the players who are "some of the best in the world" can bloody go out and show it. Tactics take you so far sometimes you have to play and not blame the system. Substitutions is not the players fault - playing like school kids is

[Eddie]

Let's hope they sort themselves out. Prove all the doubters and naysayers wrong.

[AndyC]

guys - get a grip! You've all been reading the tabloids too much!

we have played 2 teams that have defended the whole game with 10 men behind the ball like their lives depended on it!

rover6 - joe cole has been one ofn the best players in the 2 games and the only one looking likely to create something.

lampard and gerrard can play together. all this rubbish about needing carrick as a holding player is baffling. The guy can pass, but he's useless at tackling which you can't be if you're the 'holding player'

Anyway - we play 442, so we dont have a holding player a la carrick or makele - we have 2 midfielders who get up and down.

It will be a very different story when a team comes to attack us. you will see a different England then.

Main thing we need to work on, is our distribution. If we can't break a team down, lets just pass it around and wait for the opportunity.

[Lathund]

To me it feels like some of you seriously overestimate your own team. Saying that the individual quality in the side is equal to that of Brazil or Argentina is something you'll only hear from an Englishman. Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Terry and a couple more would have a good shout at getting into any squad in the world, but behind that it's a bit thin. Don't get me wrong, the rest of the starting 11 are quality players, but there's honestly not much between many of them and the Croatian, Portuguese, Swedish etc players. Enough quality to be a world top 10 team, and regularly reach quarter finals? Sure. Enough quality to, on a good day, be able to beat any side in the world? Yes. But the best squad in the world? Not really. Perhaps that's the impression you'd get if you watched very little Spanish, Italian, German and French football, but it's not necessarily accurate. It's perhaps also a matter of playing styles. It's a less valid argument now compared to 10-15 years ago, but perhaps being used to the British style of play isn't a great thing internationally?

Doesn't help that Ashley Cole, Rooney and Owen aren't 100% match fit either.

Anyway, people assess players differently and are bound to disagree. But it's my opinion that is that the lack of silverware is due, at least in part, to the quality of the squad, and not solely down to the foreigner. Sure, SGE hasn't been perfect, but look at his record as England manager and you'll find that it's not bad. Results won't magicly improve with an Englishman in charge

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Paul some SGE moments -

1) 4-0 vs Spain

2) 1-5 vs Germany

3) 1-0 Argentina

4) 3-2 Argentina

5) 5-0 Jamaica

You've got two out of those five results wrong there Floppy Mod....

It was actually England 3 Spain 0 at Villa Park in Eriksson's first match in charge in 2001.

(In Sven's only other match against Spain, we lost in the Bernabeu stadium on that shameful night in 2004 when Wayne Rooney pressed the self-destruct button and was lucky not to be sent off for his stupidity.)

I can give a number of examples of poor results under Sven - drawing 2-2 at home with Macedonia at St Mary's in 2002, losing 3-1 to Australia at Upton Park in 2003 - even Brett Emerton scored against our defence - losing 3-2 to Denmark at Old Trafford in 2003 and 4-1 to Denmark in Copenhagen in 2005.

Plus of course that highly embarrassing night at Windsor Park last year when we lost to Northern Ireland - who are currently ranked below the likes of Rwanda, Kenya, Qatar, Syria and Jordan in the FIFA world rankings.

We've had good results under previous managers (4-1 V Holland under Venables) , (3-0 V Portugal under Hoddle) , but I don't think many people would suggest we bring back either of those two managers.

Despite beating Germany 5-1 in Munich under SGE five years ago, Sven is IMO a tactically poor manager who more often than not gets his substitutions and tactics wrong.

If England do manage to win this World Cup, it will be in spite of our overpaid manager, not because of him.

Edited June 17, 2006 by Anti Euro Smiths Fan

[tcj_jones]

I know it isn't a very helpful post, but I'd have Venables back in a flash over Eriksson or Maclaren.

[Eddie]

To me it feels like some of you seriously overestimate your own team. Saying that the individual quality in the side is equal to that of Brazil or Argentina is something you'll only hear from an Englishman. Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Terry and a couple more would have a good shout at getting into any squad in the world, but behind that it's a bit thin. Don't get me wrong, the rest of the starting 11 are quality players, but there's honestly not much between many of them and the Croatian, Portuguese, Swedish etc players. Enough quality to be a world top 10 team, and regularly reach quarter finals? Sure. Enough quality to, on a good day, be able to beat any side in the world? Yes. But the best squad in the world? Not really. Perhaps that's the impression you'd get if you watched very little Spanish, Italian, German and French football, but it's not necessarily accurate. It's perhaps also a matter of playing styles. It's a less valid argument now compared to 10-15 years ago, but perhaps being used to the British style of play isn't a great thing internationally?

Doesn't help that Ashley Cole, Rooney and Owen aren't 100% match fit either.

Anyway, people assess players differently and are bound to disagree. But it's my opinion that is that the lack of silverware is due, at least in part, to the quality of the squad, and not solely down to the foreigner. Sure, SGE hasn't been perfect, but look at his record as England manager and you'll find that it's not bad. Results won't magicly improve with an Englishman in charge

If you look at it that way not much seperates most players in this world cup. When you really look at sides it is easy to pick holes, if you look at Brazil I can't see a single defender there who would make it into the English backline. There is no perfect team out there, but England are one of the top three and in my opinion those three are slightly ahead of a following pack which is then virtually impossible to seperate.

As for the lack of silverware being down to lack of talent, I woudln't agree. I am not saying that over the past few years we have always been overflowing with talented players, but we are always good enouh to be able to do something, the fact that we have not won anything for 40 years is the result of poor management and underperforming. If we win this World Cup I won't be of the view that we won it despite having SGE at the helm and if we fail it won't just be because of him. We have a squad of players with a huge amount of talent and if they aren't able to produce the goods when they cross that line then that is their fault.

[Flopsy]

I big dollopd of luck always makes the difference in these competitions

[Rover4ever]

There is no perfect team out there, but England are one of the top three and in my opinion those three are slightly ahead of a following pack which is then virtually impossible to seperate.

On what basis are you putting England over Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland or Germany?

Has England performed better than those 5 in either qualifying matches, Euro 2004, or friendlies?

[Eddie]

On what basis are you putting England over Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland or Germany?

Has England performed better than those 5 in either qualifying matches, Euro 2004, or friendlies?

Better than Spain and Italy yes and were the most convincing of that lot in qualification, though because of the weakness of England's group that means nothing really. Overall strength in depth, same reason why most people you hear talk, be they current or ex players or just folk in the media. Now that isn't to say that is the only reason I believe that, but there is just a quality in that England starting 11 and even on the bench that puts them slightly ahead of those sides.