England 2 Sweden 2

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

We should get past Ecuador but after that our paper light defence will do for us when we come up against the big guns.Rooney is far from fit too,a big gamble him being there in the first place but it looks like desperation won that one.

[joey_big_nose]

What a great game that was!

Shame it didn't end 1-1 with regard to my betting, but hey. The entertainment value was great. Am I the only one who thinks England are not particularly weakened by the loss of Owen?

I don't think in terms of posession and good football we are certainly not weakend by losing Owen. But he scores goals against the run of play ALL the time. We need that. Forexample when Sweden were battering us in our own half it would of been typical Owen to score one at the other end.

Still, we have enough good player still to progress in the tournament. Its a case of getting them to play well together for 90 minutes.

[greggyk]

Will be bye-bye Sweden against Germany I'm afraid. They're a class above England, and Schweinsteiger + Lahm will destroy us down the left.

Dont talk rubbish. Class above England, your having a laugh?!

They've played a much of muppets in their group and have struggled (untill they played Ecuador's reserves tonight)

Germany will beat Sweden though, only because Sweden are pretty poor

[grizfoot]

Joe Cole was amazing, best player of the pitch by a country mile. Also thought Owen Hargreaves had a decent game (shock horror!)

Edited June 20, 2006 by grizfoot

[Eddie]

I'm thinking that Sweden's work ethic will match Germany and that if they have a full side (with Ibrahimovich back) that they could produce a surprise result, especially if there set pieces are as effective as they were today.

[BlueMonday]

On top of the imbalanced squad now looking even more thread bear with Owen crocked.

I'm worried about Englands stamina and fitness levels.

They are looking like punch drunk boxers as games progress.

They've done well to top the group, but I'm affraid they are going to get found out in the latter stages.

They just haven't enough invention or an extra gear to push on against the cannier sides.

Hope I'm wrong !

[Lathund]

Dont talk rubbish. Class above England, your having a laugh?!

I'm sorry, I forgot this was a mainly English MB.

I meant to say that England has the best squad EVER, easily better than Brazil and that Germany are utterly useless. 5-1!!!! 5-1!!! 5-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rovermatt]

I'm not actually really English, so I can look at it from a decently objective stance.

Thought we were good in the first half, no long balls, nice movement and passing, but it all went pear shaped in the second. I think a lot of that has to be credited Sweden, they closed down well and worked hard and turned it into a grudge match that was never going to be pretty. Our defending from set pieces needs to improve, though that was most unlike us, again though some of that can be put down to Sweden's quality, it was the one area where they looked like they could trouble us and they worked it very well.

So which is it?

Anyway, Lee Dixon is convinced that England will murder Ecuador. Though he also maintained that England played flowing football ('at their best'). He must have had a few jars with the drunken English woman who, before tonight's game, loudly proclaimed "Oo's Ecuador?!"

Edited June 20, 2006 by Rovermatt

[Eddie]

I'm sorry, I forgot this was a mainly English MB.

I meant to say that England has the best squad EVER, easily better than Brazil and that Germany are utterly useless. 5-1!!!! 5-1!!! 5-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that you will struggle to convince people that Germany have a good of a team as England, though they are certainly in the better form.

[thenodrog]

1. I predicted Joe Cole would be our man of the tournament and it looks like I will be proven quite correct. (again Credit due please.

2. Ericcson was a complete fool for taking Walcott instead of Defoe. No credit due here as just about everybody and their grandma predicted as much.

3. Sol Campbell need never ever be handed another England shirt. He's done and gone. Problem with SGE is that if King had been fit I strongly suspect that SGE would still have taken Campbell.

4. Hargreaves plays before Lampard but after Carrick and Gerrard in our midfield. Common sense / logic / experience dictates that we can only play with one attacking midfielder and a playmaker. Last year Lamps edged Gerrad out for me but no longer. Gerrard has gone from strength to strength whilst Lamps look like he has 'hit the wall'.

5. We have lots of engine and far too little guile and leadership. We get the ball and give it away far too cheaply. When the presure is on the term 'Headless chickens' always springs to mind.

Oh well enough of dissing the swede........ roll on Steve Maclaren!

[pexbo]

Congratulations England! Good luck in the round of 16.

[Lathund]

I think that you will struggle to convince people that Germany have a good of a team as England, though they are certainly in the better form.

Well comparing teams player for player would've meant a comfortable win for England against Sweden, a Swedish 6-0 beating of T&T etc. Form is really all that matters. Klose is on fire, as is their left wing with Schweinsteiger and Lahm. Ballack is world class, and Lehmann is an excellent keeper. Their defense has looked a bit dodgy, but the same can be said for England. Difference being that Germany creates a lot more chance, and most of all they can keep going for 90 minutes. England only show up for 45 minutes each game. But yea, convincing an Englishman that his team isn't quite as good as he thinks it is is pretty tough indeed. But I also base it on how well the opposition suits Sweden. As we've seen half a dozen times during the SGE and Lagerbäck eras England fits us well. We can cope with the long balls to Crouch and with Beckhams crosses. England created chances through Rooney (Who can do pretty much anything) and through Cole&Cole on our weak right flank. Germany play with more imagination and have a great left side too.

Germany aren't a great team, saying they're a class above England during this WC rather says more about England than it does Germany tbh. Take of the St.George-cross-tinted glasses for a few seconds and you might see that.

[tcj_jones]

Contrary to the thoughts of many, I didn't really think we were that impressive in the first half, and were back to our usual dross in the second half. Neither halves were indicative of a team that could challange the better teams in this competition.

Hargreave's inclusion certainly helped, but the rest of the team were typically unimpressive. Lampard should be dropped. I don't care how high profile a player he is or how well he plays for Chelsea, for England he is anonymous. Watching Ballack I saw all the qualities required of an attacking midfielder. His range of passing is just sublime and he actually manages to hit the target when shooting from range. He would be a real hit for Chelsea and the premiership. He is a much better player than Lampard.

The only player who played well, apart from Gerrard in his brief appearance, was Joe Cole. However, his superb attacking qualities are more useful in the centre of the pitch, in my opinion.

It really is difficult to pick England's midfield, but I would probably go for this in our next game:

Lennon / Beckham / Hargreaves / Gerrard / J. Cole

Rooney

And if we need to really attack the opposition towards the end of a game, or need to really stretch them, then bring Downing on either Gerrard or Cole.

Beckham and Lennon were just breathtaking together on the right of midfield, and in my opinion, are the two most valuable players to the first team, even more so than Rooney.

I think we'll beat Equador comfortably - perhaps an uninspiring 2-0 victory, but as soon as we face Portugal / Holland / Argentina we will be exposed for the overrated team that we are. We have the players, but either they are being lead by poor management or cannot perform together. Perhaps a mixture of the two.

[Eddie]

Well comparing teams player for player would've meant a comfortable win for England against Sweden, a Swedish 6-0 beating of T&T etc. Form is really all that matters. Klose is on fire, as is their left wing with Schweinsteiger and Lahm. Ballack is world class, and Lehmann is an excellent keeper. Their defense has looked a bit dodgy, but the same can be said for England. Difference being that Germany creates a lot more chance, and most of all they can keep going for 90 minutes. England only show up for 45 minutes each game. But yea, convincing an Englishman that his team isn't quite as good as he thinks it is is pretty tough indeed. But I also base it on how well the opposition suits Sweden. As we've seen half a dozen times during the SGE and Lagerbäck eras England fits us well. We can cope with the long balls to Crouch and with Beckhams crosses. England created chances through Rooney (Who can do pretty much anything) and through Cole&Cole on our weak right flank. Germany play with more imagination and have a great left side too.

Germany aren't a great team, saying they're a class above England during this WC rather says more about England than it does Germany tbh. Take of the St.George-cross-tinted glasses for a few seconds and you might see that.

As I said, on current form they are the better side, but to say that they are a class above is untrue. Time will tell, we can't beat the likes of Germany, Argentina, Spain or Brazil in the group stages and there is no point in trying, we'll see what happens now that we are getting to the money end of tournament.

Don't allow the group stages to turn teams from mediocre into world class. I doubt very much that pre-tournament you would have said that Germany were anything other than workmanlike and effective, even the Germans were saying that, three games doesn't change that, especially when none of those games were againt top opposition. I still rate this England side for that very same reason, three games doesn't make you a bad side. I won't deny that Germany are in better form, but they are in much better form than Brazil (who have been no more impressive then England), yet you wouldn't say that they are a class above Brazil because of the general opinion that exists surrounding this amazing Brazil side.

I hope that this England side will play as it can, if not then I can't see us getting much further, but I am still aware of the quality we have in our side and what we are capable of and that is a class above Germany. Of course we have to produce the goods, if not then this side will have wasted a great opportunity and tremendous amount of talent.

[RevidgeBlue]

I must have been watching a different game to everyone else tonight because I thought it was another dismal performance which did nothing whatsoever to frank Sven's credentials as a manager.

We were poor first half until Cole's goal which was a moment of individual brilliance no-one can legislate for.

After that for 12 or 13 minutes until half time we looked extremely useful.

The second half was even worse, Sweden battered us throughout, and we were only saved from a heavy defeat by the crossbar and a goal-line clearance. Sven was meant to be protecting Gerrard from a second yellow, but ludicrously introduced him into the fray for a relatively meaningless match and will probably claim it as an inspired move seeing as he scored.

We will probably still have the players to beat Ecuador but have to improve beyond all recognition if we're to avoid our usual tame quarter final exit.

[Lathund]

Did I say they were world class? I did say Ballack was (Which isn't an outrageous statement since he plays in England), but one player doesn't make a team.

I wouldn't have said anything before the tournament as I hadn't seen much of them. I wouldn't say that they were better than Brazil (Unless they start playing even worse) no, but that's because I rate Brazil's squad quite a bit higher than the English. As do most people who aren't English. If all players played at max capacity under the ultimate system for them I'd take England over Germany, but even judging player by player England aren't miles better. Better yes, but nothing like you make it out to be.

I also prefer to look at what the teams do on the pitch, rather than look at what clubs they play for and what the media thinks of each player. But maybe that's a silly way to look at this?'

EDIT: oh yeah, something I thought I mentioned already but apparently hadn't: Germany are at home. That usually matters quite a bit.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Lathund

[tcj_jones]

For what it's worth Rev, I agreed with you!

[USABlue]

For what it's worth Rev, I agreed with you!

Me too Rev. I was baffled with the Gerrard move, looks good for Sven that he scored. We can now pay dearly for his decision to not keep on Defoe. Beckham stunk again tonight, I thought he was crap against T&T also, way too many wayward balls, and free kicks yes he set up Crouch but that was a bout it for me.

One sweet pass to Rooney all night does not warrant a starting spot for the next game. We move on but I am no more confident than I was. Flatter to deceive, as is almost always the case.

Robinson looked clueless in the sticks. Ecuador beating us easily will not surprise me in the least. Our fitness seems to be a concern to me, best get Mark Hughes out there.

Edited June 21, 2006 by USABlue

[Scotty]

Usual bizarre responses on here I see.

I thought we took a while to recover from Owen's injury in the first half, understandably so, as I'm sure an injury to a key player like that in the first minute would rock any team. However, once we regained our composure we looked much the better team. We kept possession well, mixed up our passing with long and short balls, and had easily the best player on the pitch in Joe Cole. He fully deserved his goal.

Hargreaves played the holding role well, his distribution was excellent, and he broke up a number of attacks. Rooney looked a threat and nearly scored a wonder goal, and it's only a matter of time before Lampard scores a screamer. No idea how many shots we had in that first half but it must have been getting on for double figures.

For some reason we started off flat in the second half and forgot how to defend set-pieces - which was unfortunate as Sweden are particularly strong on them. They capitalised when Allback scored and could easily have had two or three more. We weren't helped by a further injury to Ferdinand - someone who'd been doing an excellent job up to then of distributing the ball from the back.

Slowly though we recovered and the substitution bringing Gerrard on for the tiring Rooney gave us the upper hand again I thought. No surprise to see Gerrard score what looked like the winner, I didn't think it was against the run of play at all at that time. Sadly though, our defending let us down again as Sweden scored a comical equaliser.

I didn't think England seemed any more tired than Sweden in the second half, other than Rooney who is still getting his match fitness back, and I thought we showed a lot of character to overcome two injuries to key players - especially one as early and severe as Owen's seems to be. Obviously our set-piece defending was diabolical but I'm sure that's something that can be sorted on the training ground in the coming days. I'd be more concerned if we'd allowed Sweden chances from open-play but I don't remember them having any.

It's worrying that we started the second half so poorly and forgot how to defend corners, and it's obviously also worrying that two of our key players appear to be injured, but all in all I thought we showed some improvement today - particularly in the first half. We've finished top of the group and have given ourselves, on paper at least, an easier route through the competition. Bring on Ecuador on Sunday!

[neekoy]

You clearly do love this England team.

Was I wrong?

[Jan]

Dont talk rubbish. Class above England, your having a laugh?!

They've played a much of muppets in their group and have struggled (untill they played Ecuador's reserves tonight)

Germany will beat Sweden though, only because Sweden are pretty poor

The same Sweden that drew with, and should have beaten, England?

The most hilarious comment I heard from an England pundit was "we're on our way, we're world class again". Why? Because you couldn't beat Sweden, a team who, Paraguay aside, haven't won inabout 10 outings? Get real. You have one fit striker and a twelvve year old whose mummy won't let him play 'cos the matches are on too late. You have two world-class midfielders who can't play together and that's about it. You have a captain who's about as much use as a chocolate teapot and a goalkeeper who has decided now is the time to forget how to keep goal. Definitely on your way!!!!

[Flopsy]

Owen's dislocated his kneecap (Im looking at teh negative side) so that leaves us with a strike force of Rooney (who was good for 50minutes last night) Crouch (again did well last night) Walcott (who will play if we need a goal im sure/hope) and then Gerrard and J Cole as 2ndry strikers. Although Id not play the last two with Rooney as hes not a target/shoulder of the defender striker. Rather they should play off Crouch or Walcott.

I thought Beckham had a good defensive display last night as he was helping out Carragher and was missing the Neviller something chronic attackingly.

The sooner Neville gets back the better as it means that Carragher can be back up centre back and not Sol, who was at fault, along with Robinson for the 2nd goal

[jim mk2]

The sooner Neville gets back the better as it means that Carragher can be back up centre back and not Sol, who was at fault, along with Robinson for the 2nd goal

Eh ?

What about Terry, who completely misjudged the throw-in and allowed it to bounce over him ?

Full marks to Sweden, who spotted England's vulnerability to driven crosses. In 190 years of watching the national team I've never seen an England defence in such disarray.

A "flapper" in goal does not inspire confidence either.

[philipl]

The defensive disorganisation was worthy of Boro losing 7-0 to Arsenal, 4-0 to Sevilla and being terrorised by Kuqi twice in six days at the Riverside.

That was an attrocious performance at the back- nobody knew what they were doing and Ashley Cole couldn't even cover the back post properly.

As for Hargreaves, he was terrible. I watched him for about twenty minutes and I'd say every passing decision he made was wrong and he got caught in possession twice (including needlessly losing the ball which lead to the corner for Sweden's first equaliser).

Utterly depressing situation for England. By the way, Italian TV followed Rooney throwing a complete paddy on the bench over being substituted.

[SuperStella]

Another shocking performance last night – it started off well, but, as usual it got worse as the long ball game, misplaced passes and sloppy defending came in. Sweden should have won easily, hitting the bar twice and having 3 cleared off the goal line.

Why the hell has Eriksson taken Walcott? When Owen fell on his own knee, he put a yellow carded senior player on who he wanted to leave out of last nights game (Crouch) instead, then brought a midfielder on for Rooney? He should have taken Defoe AND Ashton…. We don’t need 3 goalkeepers in the squad

The guy is clueless!

I never thought I would find myself saying this, but I actually hope the over-rated Ferdinand is fit for Sunday…. Campbell, another example of a player lacking match practice and fitness was absolutely appalling – no wonder Arsenal are set to show him the exit door this summer. What has he done to get in the England squad?

So, we have 4 strikers….. Crouch is on a yellow card and teetering on suspension, Rooney isn’t match fit and looks way off the pace, Owen is crocked and Walcott we’ve never seen; then again, neither has Eriksson!!

Its about time, we played an anchoring midfielder (Carrick), allowing Gerrard and Lampard to push on and support Rooney (lets pray to God he gets fitter, and improves). There is no point these 2 attacking midfielders, who scored about 40 goals between them last season should be playing deep midfield; if so, there are a number of midfielders who could do the same job as them 2; we need to play to our strengths!

Edited June 21, 2006 by SuperStella