Penalties

[philipl]

Whatever England did preparing for penalties didn't work. Even removing Lennon to bring on Carragher at the end of extra time put a player into the frame who couldn't put the ball on the penalty spot.

If you compare that pathetic showing with Germany's penalties:

- every penalty taker marched up confidentally and showed through their demeanour they were totally in control. Only Owen Hargreaves did that for England.

- the German keeping coach had anbalysed every penalty taken by every Argentine squad member over the past two years. Before each Argentine kick, Lehmann received a piece of paper telling him the directional preference of the next penalty taker.

With the level of professionalism attained in the English game, that penalty shoot out was just pathetic and will stand as SGE's lasting epitath.

[American]

I heard on the radio that Lehman's looking at the paper might not have been within the rules. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[rover6]

Does anyone think it's the English mentality that is fallible rather than the technique or practice.

It happens so often, I just get the feeling that our players aren't mentally strong enough.

[blue phil]

I'm sure McClaren will instill the mental toughness necessary to overcome any future opponents

Many more years of hurt to come I'm afraid

[greggyk]

Robinson was handed a sheet of paper before the the shoot-out was about to start.

It's nothing to do with coaching, it's just the fear English players have of the press if they miss.

If it's not that- we're just a nation of bottlers

[SouthAussieRover]

McLaren does seem to be a prolific note writer too.

There he was at the start of each match scribbling away on a pad and showing it to SGE.

I was convinced they were playing "hangman" or "noughts and crosses" although lets hope he was writing down notes on more tactical issues

[Lathund]

  philipl said:

- every penalty taker marched up confidentally and showed through their demeanour they were totally in control. Only Owen Hargreaves did that for England.

Keeping '90, '96 and '98 in mind, don't you think this might perhaps have something to do with the mentality in the English game? Interestingly enough Owen Hargreaves plays in the same league as most of the confident German penalty takers, which might have som effect. I can understand blaming SGE for not winning in the 120 minutes of play, but putting a ball into the net from 11yds out surely involves the actual players too to some extent?

Edited July 2, 2006 by Lathund

[Oklahoma]

I think it comes down to just one penalty: Lampard's.

If you noticed the way Gerrard reacted, he was disapointed and also looked scared in a "If he failed, how are we gonna score?".

The player that takes the first penalty should be the best one you have (Simão is definetly the best in Portugal) to build up confidence to the rest.

Cause in this case, loads of players are not used to score penalties for real. They can spend months or years without scoring one.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Oklahoma

[RevidgeBlue]

I think everyone is overplaying the penalty thing slightly, if you're not good enough to beat your opponents over 120 minutes, then it's basically a coin flip, in the lap of the gods. At best you're bound to be unlucky some of the time. Far safer to make sure you win the game in normal time.

However I heard a very interesting point on the radio today. The caller held the view that the keeper on each side faced five penalties and was therefore more far important than any individual penalty taker. What if Sven had been innovative and instead of putting on Carragher, had put on James, big lad, excellent shot stopper etc. Psychologically it would have completely thrown the Portugese.

Got me thinking.

[dave birch]

Had that happened, Rev, the game might have been over in normal (or extra) time, and it wouldn't have gone to penalties.

[RevidgeBlue]

  dave birch said:

Had that happened, Rev, the game might have been over in normal (or extra) time, and it wouldn't have gone to penalties.

Hee hee......harsh, I know he ain't the best but 90 seconds!

[tcj_jones]

I'm adament that I could have taken a better penalty than Gerrard, Lampard and Carragher did.

[rover6]

  Oklahoma said:

If you noticed the way Gerrard reacted, he was disapointed and also looked scared in a "If he failed, how are we gonna score?".

He looked terrified. Somehow I doubt Michael Ballack would have reacted like that. Gerrard is a fantastic player but he, like Lampard, has not done it for England.

[Rover4ever]

I dont think England are any worse penalty takers than Portugal. In Euro 04, only one miss separated the two sidews.

Its probably Lampards miss that set the tone for the collapse

[speeeeeeedie]

It is purely psychological. Mourinho is in the papers today saying what everyone else thinks; England were done for as soon as "England's finest goalscoring midfielder" rolled one to Ricardo. Every player had either experienced the loss before, and definitely remembered our previous cock ups.

It has been said that they practiced penalties every day, why? It wouldn't do them any good as you can't replicate emotion. Why didn't all the players take the same pen; go up and blast the ball. The sheer power should beat the keeper. Also Robinson should have taken the first, he likes kicking it hard.

[1864roverite]

there is a word........

B O T T L E

Our English superstars didnt have it

hows that for #80k a week and the rest

[FourLaneBlue]

  RevidgeBlue said:

However I heard a very interesting point on the radio today. The caller held the view that the keeper on each side faced five penalties and was therefore more far important than any individual penalty taker. What if Sven had been innovative and instead of putting on Carragher, had put on James, big lad, excellent shot stopper etc. Psychologically it would have completely thrown the Portugese.

Got me thinking.

Is that the same David James who saved bugger all penalties against the Portugese in the 2004 quarter final penalty shoot-out defeat?

Yep...it certainly could have "completely thrown" the Portugese...into fits of laughter.

Two games going to penalties against the Portugese...no penalties saved whatsoever by the England keepers.

[BuckyRover]

I don't think its fair to blame it on overpaid players either.

I don't think the portugese players are short of a bob or two?

Figo?? He went for 40m

Edited July 3, 2006 by BuckyRover

[pleasure]

england's penalty nightmare is purely down to 'player mentality.' they dont have any self belief. you can tell by the look in their eyes that they are going to miss.

[philipl]

And that comes down to rank bad self-indulgent management.

Gerard didn't look like like that taking penalties for Raffa in CL 2005?

Lampard is hardly going to tap the ball to Brad when Chelski get a pen at Ewood is he?

etc etc etc

The difference between the Portuguese and English is that they had professionalism and pride.

Edited July 4, 2006 by philipl

[Eddie]

  philipl said:

And that comes down to rank bad self-indulgent management.

Gerard didn't look like like that taking penalties for Raffa in CL 2005?

Lampard is hardly going to tap the ball to Brad when Chelski get a pen at Ewood is he?

etc etc etc

The difference between the Portuguese and English is that they had professionalism and pride.

Portugal didn't exactly give us a lesson in how to take them. 3/5 would lose you most shoot-outs, they were just up against the worst penalty taking nation in the world. It is the pressure of the moment, not the quality of the player. We need to figure out something in time for the next competition, it is just becoming too much of a regular thing.

[SouthAussieRover]

  1864roverite said:

there is a word........

B O T T L E

Our English superstars didnt have it

hows that for #80k a week and the rest

Or the Portuguese are better at diving in every department

[pleasure]

'Rodney Trotter' blames tiredness.

STOP TRYING TO COME UP WITH EXCUSES!!! THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!

http://worldcup.itv.com/News/Story_Page/0,...1315737,00.html

[Nayef]

Although you can be technically excellent at executing a penalty, what really makes a difference on the day is your attitude and confidence (true in all walks of life).

Fat Frank puts them away regularly for Chelsea but stepping up there, he was short of confidence. And this lack of self belief was evident in every penalty taker except of course for our german resident who must have felt pumped up after knowing he had put in a second half display, worthy of a titlehood.

Klinsmann's hired psychologists to help his team believe they can do it. Yes, they're german and yes we expect them to be efficient machines but instilling this belief with the help of psychologists has clearly helped their confidence. Did you see a poor penalty from them against Argentina?

Mclaren - take note! We need psychologists for these people who are clearly not mentally strong. We don't have another Shearer for England yet...