Germany 0 Italy 2

[Drakefyre]

How many goals did England score from open play this WC?

[Eddie]

4 out of 6.

[rover6]

Eddie, Rio Ferdinand said he was 'embarrassed' by England's achievements at the World Cup. The fraudster himself, Sven, admitted it wasn't good enough and Gary Neville, also contrite, stated that there were no excuses, ENgland didn't play well enough and therefore did not deserve to go any further.

In the light of these comments, how on earth can you put a positive slant on England's campaign?

They lost against a team that had as much goal threat as Sunderland last year.

[Eddie]

Yes, but they outplayed Portugal, we didn't play well but could easily have been in the semis. I just think this was a poor world cup, no one has really impressed so there is no need to pick out England. France have been awful and are in the final.

[neekoy]

Tripe Eddie

France had a slow start but against Spain and Brazil they were fantastic, the dip against Portugal could have easily been players being cautious about yellow cards

Spain, Argentina and Holland had one bad game the whole world cup, and it happened to knock them out. Germany was superb, Italy have had an excellent tournament.

Brazil didn't reach the quality expected but were still devestating againt Japan and Ghana, Ghana and Australia played their butts off and were unfortunate not to go further. Portugal have done enough and shown glipses of the Brazilian European tag.

In fact the only teams who got through the group stage who were crap the whole way through, both playing and watching, were Switzerland, England and Ukraine.

Edited July 6, 2006 by neekoy

[Rovermatt]

Yes, but they outplayed Portugal, we didn't play well but could easily have been in the semis. I just think this was a poor world cup, no one has really impressed so there is no need to pick out England. France have been awful and are in the final.

Playing better than previous insipid displays does not necessarily qualify you as having outperfomed the opposition. Portugal may have been sh*t up front but they controlled the game, even if England were down to 10 men for an hour.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Rovermatt

[Jan]

Having just come back from both semi-finals, Eddie you're on planet cuckoo-land. England have been below-average to downright dreadful this tournament. Any one of the teams playing in the two matches would have taken England apart on current form, and the weakest of the 4, Portugal, actually did.

The Italy/Germany match was a joy to watch. I was particularly taken by the number of times an Italian defender, with an opposing forward coming at him gave a little cushioned header into space for a midfielder to get. That's something I've never seen England do. We've all seen the manic head tennis that is prevalent in most British games. This waasn't that. It was controlled and directed. Thye really were a class apart.

The funniest sight of the whole tournament, however, was the sight of THOUSANDS of English men ( bright red and ugly- spot them a mile off) wearing France scarves, t-shirst and hats and booing Ronaldo. ( the English accents, lary behaviour and mannerisms helped identify them too). Given what most English think about France, the hypocrisy was outstanding!

Anyway, if there was any justice, the Italians would win for being very skilful. However I kind of hope France do it- for Zizou- one of the finest players ever.

Oh and by the way, is there ANYONE who, if managing a playing against a team with Rooney in it, wouldn't have a game plan to get him sent off? If there is they're DUMB.

[Ozz]

Any one of the teams playing in the two matches would have taken England apart on current form, and the weakest of the 4, Portugal, actually did.

Taken apart is a bit strong Jan. Aside from Denmark in a mad friendly, I cannot recall anyone taking us apart . (Presuming that this means a three or four goal dubbing)

Even when we play badly, and this has been fairly regular over the last few years, even the best sides find it difficult to actually beat England. Look how many games SGE actully lost in his reign, forgetting Penalties.

Which is also a weakness as well as a strength. Too cautious, too scared to loose.

[Eddie]

Portugal took us apart? Beating us in a penalty shoot-out when we were down to 10 men for an hour is taking us apart? Actually, that has changed the outlook of the entire world cup for me, we ripped T&T, Paraguay and Ecuador to shreds then.

[Jan]

OK- substitute taken apart for "beaten". The point is valid. You couldn't beat Portugal. They were the weakest of the 4 teams in the semi-finals. The biggest problem you have is that you don't have world class forwards. Owen is a crock, Rooney can be knocked out of a game very easily by playing on his temper, and the rest are good, not great. You do have a world class defence when the extra midfielder is there, it's true. This makes you hard to beat , but makes it even less likely that you'll score.

And unlike France last night, you can't defend a 1 goal lead. Lst night they shut down after they scored, and I really never felt that (Barthez horror apart) Portugal would score. Rovers never feel like that, Scotland certainly don't and neither do England.

[Eddie]

England only let in goals once during this tournament, so not really fair to say we can't defend and can't defend leads. As for not having world class forwards, Rooney can be easily taken out of the game? Oh, if it is that easy then I won't be worried about him when we play United next season. If you can accept the fact that Portugal looked odds on to score once (Figo missing a sitter) then you don't have much legs. I will also promise you that the French weren't very happy with that second half and were all very, very nervous. They thought Portugal would score.

[Rovermatt]

The biggest problem you have is that you don't have world class forwards. Owen is a crock, Rooney can be knocked out of a game very easily by playing on his temper...

Eh? Owen is one of the finest finishers on the planet when fit. His injury is not a stain on his ability. Also to describe Rooney as anything other than world class is baffling.

[Ozz]

(Barthez horror apart)

I was sure that was going to happen sooner or later last night.

[Oklahoma]

France defended well, they know Portugal doesn't have a strike force.

Didn't like the negative game by France (Barthez was always wasting time) but that's football.

[herbergeehh]

France were awfully boring, Portugal were just awful.

Just out of interest, has Portugal had any world class strikers since Eusebio?

[Oklahoma]

We had a few: Gomes, Rui Águas, Nené, Jordão but nothing much.

The best currently is Nuno Gomes (almost 100% of the portuguese agree with that) but Scolari doesn't like him much. Hope he lets him play saturday.

At least Pauleta will probably retire from international football (finally).

[herbergeehh]

We had a few: Gomes, Rui Águas, Nené, Jordão but nothing much.

The best currently is Nuno Gomes (almost 100% of the portuguese agree with that) but Scolari doesn't like him much. Hope he lets him play saturday.

At least Pauleta will probably retire from international football (finally).

See, that might say more about my knowledge levels, but I haven't heard much about any of those. Nuno Gomes was a big hit when he bursted through, but has faded away a little as far as I know, and can't be counted as a world class striker. The irony is, if Portugal had a striker like Crespo, Toni, fully fit Vieri or even Zigic, they would look so much more dangerous. Pauleta is decent and has scored a lot of goals, but as a lone striker at his age I don't think he's sharp enough.

[rover6]

We had a few: Gomes, Rui Águas, Nené, Jordão but nothing much.

The best currently is Nuno Gomes (almost 100% of the portuguese agree with that) but Scolari doesn't like him much. Hope he lets him play saturday.

At least Pauleta will probably retire from international football (finally).

Incidentally, Oklahoma, do you think Scolari would've done a better job picking Luis Boa Morte - either on the wing or as a second striker?

He's a risk due to his hot-headedness but he was outstanding for Fulham last year and has the physical presence and pace that Deco severely lacked.

[Oklahoma]

It's hard to say, really.

The problem is that Scolari has his men and sticks to them.

Nuno Gomes scored 15 goals this season and was part of it injured. He has done good seasons but suffers the same problem as Pauleta, doesn't work very well as a lone striker. However, he still works well for his team mates.

Boa Morte would certainly be an option but, as I said, Scolari sticks to his men and Boa Morte and Nuno Gomes are not his first options, unfortunately. Hope they play tomorrow, though.

The strikers I mentioned are mostly from the 80's and early 90's. I missed a very good one called Domingos, played for FC Porto.

[rover6]

You also missed Spurs legend, Jose Dominguez. :ph34r:

[Oklahoma]

I'm talking of true footballers