[Archived] Owen Has A Pop At The Idiot

[pleasure]

the nonsense continues. this time from JT.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/tm_...-name_page.html

[neekoy]

I think this sums it up

"JOHN TERRY has hailed Steve McClaren as the manager with the passion to guide England to a new era of success - and revealed he is desperate to be his new captain."

[thenodrog]

  neekoy said:

I think this sums it up

"JOHN TERRY has hailed Steve McClaren as the manager with the passion to guide England to a new era of success - and revealed he is desperate to be his new captain."

Don't know either of em personally but I bet privately Terry frickin hates Maclaren.

[neekoy]

I think we should keep some kind of archive aside for when McLaren gets the sack in 18 months

We can then compare the players praise now "He will bring the spirit back into team, he is a great manager, his 9 up front tactics are a revolution!!"

to "And I thought Sven was bad"

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

  Bryan said:

An extra week off isn't going to make any difference.

How much more time off did these highly paid athletes need before the tournament began - an extra month? Or did the Premiership need to finish two months earlier to give these "stars" an extra rest?

The Italian Serie A finished later than the Premiership did. But Italy still won the World Cup. In comparison it seems that English Premiership players couldn't get themselves into a good physical condition before the biggest tournament in the world.

  Bryan said:

Lampard was knackered after a long and hard season

Lampard was rested from Chelsea's final Premiership game of the season against Newcastle. (John Terry was rested from Chelsea's final two matches against Rovers and Newcastle). Some of these pampered players were being wrapped up in cotton wool - and they still complained about being "tired".

In any case, Lampard's complaint was that he wasn't being trained hard enough by England and that the players were given too many days off.

You say that Lampard was "knackered after a long hard season", but Chelsea were knocked out of the Champions League in the last 16 and were beaten by Charlton in the 3rd Round of the Carling Cup, so it's not as if Lampard had to play about 65 games with Chelsea last season.

Lampard is lucky he didn't have to play for Arsenal in 1979/80. That season under Terry Neill, Arsenal had to play over 70 games including four FA Cup semi-final matches (3 replays) against Liverpool, sandwiched in between a two-legged European Cup Winners Cup semi-final against Juventus. Arsenal were playing four matches a week in April back then. Compared with that, Lampard had it relatively easy last season.

  Bryan said:

To summarise your post then:

- Players are responsible for their own fitness, and should be telling the manager what training they should do.

I think that footballers as well as managers and coaching staff, all have a responsibility to ensure that players are properly fit to last the distance of a match (barring any injuries.)

My own view is that if players complain about being "too tired" during the biggest tournament in the world, it's because they aren't fit enough.

Compared with how hard tennis players, for example, train their bodies to ensure they can play five-set gruelling matches on consecutive days, some lasting over four and a half hours, I think footballers have it fairly easy in comparison. I know that football is a team sport, whereas tennis is an individual sport, but I honestly don't think that footballers train themselves as hard as other athletes do in certain other physical sports.

Frank Lampard, on over 100K a week with Chelsea, should have been able to say to Sven: "This isn't working. I don't feel fit enough. I need to change the way I've been training."

At club level, it seems to be the case that players turn up at the training ground at about 10 o'clock, do a couple of hours training before driving back home in their Ferraris and Aston Martins to their mansions. Lampard had about six weeks after his final match of the season with Chelsea to prepare himself for the biggest tournament in world football. But the poor little lamb said his legs were too heavy.

[Neil Weaver]

  Anti Euro Smiths Fan said:

My own view is that if players complain about being "too tired" during the biggest tournament in the world, it's because they aren't fit enough.

Overtired ?

[broadsword]

So, Lampard wasn't fit enough because he was moaning about being tired, and the amount of games he played wasn't as many as that played by Arsenal in 1979/80.

So, what you are saying is that Arsenal players in 1979/80 were fitter than Frank Lampard Juinor is now? Do you realise how ridiculous that statement sounds? You may have noticed that the game is played at a slightly higher tempo these days.

Who knows whether Lampard complained to Eriksson about the training, or how tired he felt. If he did, it didn't actually have any effect, did it?

The manager makes the decisions and is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the pitch - period. He is responsible for switching the training round if it isn't working, he is responsible for tactics and selection NOT the players. Players can speak their minds but won't necessarily get their own way, and if they don't and the results don't come then they are entitled to speak out.

One thing that I do remember is that Klinsman's training methods re-invigorated his team after a long season because he was prepared to accept new ideas. We needed something new to get the players going again. As it is, Lampard was clearly out-of-sorts and needed dropping.

I never agreed with messing the FA Cup schedule up just to have more time off at teh end of teh season. It certainly didn't help us did it?

[daren]

It was all John Terry's fault, he jinxed Lampard by betting he wouldn't score. God knows, he put harder chances than some of the ones he got in Germany in the back of the net last season. I blame Terry and his voodoo witch doctor

[pleasure]

  Bryan said:

So, Lampard wasn't fit enough because he was moaning about being tired, and the amount of games he played wasn't as many as that played by Arsenal in 1979/80.

more matches, only 2 subs, they played on heavier pitches and they were paid less (although comparatively better than most). watching old MOTD programmes, broadcast on ESPN CLASSIC (SKY CH 442), makes me think... footballers have it easier nowadays. PLAYERS... STOP COMPLAINING!

[Lee]

I saw ESPN Classic the other day, we even got a mention!

"The player of the day has to be Blackburn Rovers' Simon Garner who scored all five goals in their 5-1 victory over Derby County at Ewood Park"

[blue phil]

Didn't someone else score 5 goals on that day ? Stole a bit of SG's glory somewhat I remember .

[DanLad]

  blue phil said:

Didn't someone else score 5 goals on that day ? Stole a bit of SG's glory somewhat I remember .

Someone did, yes. A Derby player?

Was there a picture in the national press with Simes holding his hand up with all fives fingers splayed and he was beaming away? Or was that the Derby bloke? Or was it 5 goals Simes scored against Derby?

Bloody memory. Grrr!

I wsa only about 8, though...

[Lee]

Err DanLad...

"The player of the day has to be Blackburn Rovers' Simon Garner who scored all five goals in their 5-1 victory over Derby County at Ewood Park"

[American]

  Bryan said:

The manager makes the decisions and is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the pitch - period. He is responsible for switching the training round if it isn't working, he is responsible for tactics and selection NOT the players. Players can speak their minds but won't necessarily get their own way, and if they don't and the results don't come then they are entitled to speak out.

The players are responsible for their fitness. He wasn't in shape, nothing was stopping him from coming early or staying late to make sure he got in shape.

I'm a huge fan of Lampard, but this whole thing smacks of him using SGE as a scapegoat for his incompetence.

[broadsword]

Why do clubs hire sports scientists and fitness coaches then? They shouldn't need them, the players know it all! You might as well have the players washing the kit, making the teas and giving the half-time talk.

Did the players give themselves days off? No, the Swedish Turnip did.

It's not so much scapegoating as laying blame where it's rightfully due.

[American]

How is it not rightfully due with Lampard? He didn't have to take the day off. Plenty of people come in to "catch up on work" on off days. Before the biggest tournament of his life, he should have made damn sure he was in the best shape he could be. If I have a big project due, I'm not going to blame the boss if he managed me incorrectly if I wasn't prepared. It's his responsibility to HELP me prepare, not to prepare me.

The blame is rightfully lain on the man who took 20 some odd shots without hitting the target. If he was that crap and out of shape, maybe he should have passed more.

[broadsword]

Did he actually take the day off then? Or was he told not to train that day?

I don't think your analogy is a valid one. Footballers are spoon-fed, it's their duty to carry their skills onto the field, the conditioning and training is the responsibility of the manager. What would training be like if everyone suddenly announced they were off to do their own thing?

"Oh boss, I won't do the five-a-side, personally I feel I'd benefit more from a long run, so see ya later".

"Boss these cones have been laid out wrong, can I change them?"

"Boss, I've over-trained thanks to you, I am taking today over to allow my muscles to super-compensate"

"Boss, these bleep tests aren't stretching me, I'm using my own heart-rate monitor and I'm not above 85% of my heart-rate yet"

"Boss, I find these training routines mentally-unstimulating, either let's do soemthing different or I'll go home"

Yes, it all sounds very feasible to me.

You can't take your own work-place analogy and then suddenly apply it to football.

[American]

Fine, I'll take American sports where players routinely show up early and stay late to get in extra training. Guys who are told to do 10 reps of weight and do 20 instead.

A true leader goes above and beyond what the coach tells him to do. Only one person to blame for being out of shape, and that's himself. He knows his body better than the coach does.

[thenodrog]

This tough training lark for footballers is a myth imo. Everytime TV shows clips from training grounds all the players are doing is keep ups and having a laff and a joke. I've never seen one of em do anything strenuous yet.

[Drakefyre]

What about the goalkeeper and striker staying late at training to get in some extra practice together? Seems to happen quite a bit. No reason Lampard couldn't have stayed later and done some running, especially if he felt behind some of the other players fitness-wise.

If everyone was at the same level and came in against Paraguay and realized they weren't actually that fit at all, I can understand it.

[rover6]

As much as I loathe making any reference to the epitome of greed - the 'Mr Career so Far (Episode I/X)' autobiography (biography really), I must applaud Steven Gerrard or should I say - I must applaud Steven Gerrard's ghost writer.

"We are not as good as we think we are. England were guilty of over-confidence. Me and the other players constantly claimed we could win the World Cup - it was stupid."

That's the way, Lampard. Show a bit of humility before laying into other people. (That's not to suggest that Sven should not be criticised - he should be hammered (metaphorically, of course).

[James No. 7]

Sven Goran Eriksson interview. In it he is asked for some of his opinions on the state of football in general and some questions on his time in England. The interview takes a while to warm up, though.