[Archived] Music Discussion Thread

[Flopsy]

i rather like the new Verve track, even if they have used the teletubbies as backing singers

[Billy Castell]

I agree. I never take to much interest of the 'TOP 100 BANDS EVER' polls that the magasines always run when they have nothing to fill pages but I am always amazed that the Libertines are always high up in them with quotes like 'one of the most important bands ever' next to their picture - hang on, didnt they have something like 2 albums? Pathetic

It can take just one album to have an important effect on music as well as a whole load. However, The Libertines are an important band, as sales of smack and pork pie hats have probably increased tenfold as saddo wannabes try to copy Pete Doherty whilst proclaiming him a genius (which he isn't). Another thing hat makes them important, is the they were at the rusty, disease-ridden edge of the tight trousered indie crap which sort of merges with pop and emo. The Libertines were the bit of rough that went with the jangly gituar crap. If Pete and Winehouse hurried up and died, we'd probably be able to get our troops back from Afghanistan as the Taliban's drug money would dry up. The FARC would also fold,and then Colombia may sort itself out.

I also hate those lists, and I'm waiting for Q magazine and Channel 4 to do their top '50 lists we've ever done ever'. You cannot quantify 'importance' or 'influence' as they are purely subjective, and a topic like music is open ended. Can the person who made the first piano be more 'important' than Bob Dylan? If so, by how many units of measurement? This would be a crap episode of Numbers..................

[grizfoot]

Of course The Libertines deserve to be in the top 100 bands of all time. Up The Bracket is a masterpiece in my opinion. The band's that took influences from them have mostly turned out to be medicore but that's not exactly their fault.

The new Dirty Pretty Things album is okay but still doesn't compare to the two Libertines albums.

[S15]

Garbage.

I cannot for the life of me be bothered to explain and write all the reasons why The Libertines are not one of the greatest 100 bands ever, however I just couldn't bare not to make it known that I feel this way.

[tony gale's mic]

Greatest 100 bands ever is definitely pushing it, but you can't deny Doherty is an immensely talented individual, even if he doesn't always show it.

[Billy Castell]

Can't sing, can't write, and often can't be bothered to turn up for gigs. He's rubbish. Half his 'talent' is based on the fact he's a hopeless druggie who mumbles on about the albion like a tramp. People would not worship hiom if he was a teetotal Christian who's trying to save the environment.

Gruff Rhys has much more talent, and yet Super Furry Animals have been ignored as they don't do the celeb bandwaggon.

[Nelsta]

Can't sing, can't write, and often can't be bothered to turn up for gigs. He's rubbish. Half his 'talent' is based on the fact he's a hopeless druggie who mumbles on about the albion like a tramp. People would not worship hiom if he was a teetotal Christian who's trying to save the environment.

Gruff Rhys has much more talent, and yet Super Furry Animals have been ignored as they don't do the celeb bandwaggon.

Couldnt agree more, the Super Fury Animals are an extremly underated band.

[DeadlyDirk]

Can't sing, can't write, and often can't be bothered to turn up for gigs. He's rubbish. Half his 'talent' is based on the fact he's a hopeless druggie who mumbles on about the albion like a tramp. People would not worship hiom if he was a teetotal Christian who's trying to save the environment.

Gruff Rhys has much more talent, and yet Super Furry Animals have been ignored as they don't do the celeb bandwaggon.

I can some up an excellent counter argument to your comments with three words.

'You are wrong.'

Have you even listened to Up The Bracket? I mean really listened? Next you'll be saying The Beatles and Elvis Presley were rubbish.

[S15]

Pete Dohertys' song writing resembles that of a sixth form student who is trying to reinvent themself now they have left the old tags from high school.

I'll let you figure the irony for yourselves.

[percy]

Couldnt agree more, the Super Fury Animals are an extremly underated band.

Have to agree, they were brilliant and didn't get the plaudits their albums deserved. Even their b-sides album 'Out-Spaced' was superb. Would say the same for The Beta Band too - massively talented and criminally underrated.

Pete Doherty / The Libertines / Babyshambles? A few good singles and intimate gigs overhyped by the unnecessary media focus on some chancer's ability to take drugs in public, make a mockery of the courts, miss gigs and occasionally play in someone's kitchen - all as a side show to his actual bands.

Genius? No chance. Lucky chancer who wrote half decent songs occasionally? Maybe.

[tony gale's mic]

Yep, the fact he won a national poetry competition and went on a British Council funded trip to Russia to read out his poems at the age of 16 is definitely proof the guys got absolutely no talent whatsoever. Clearly he can't write.

If you actually bothered to give the music a proper listen and stopped focusing on his bad habits you'll see they've made some excellent tunes. I'm no Pete apologist - the man's a fool and since Up the Bracket his output has been patchy at best. But credit where credit's due, if you're saying the mans not at least very talented then you're simply wrong.

SFA are an excellent band and beat seven shades of crap out of Babyshambles live when I saw both at Glastonbury last year though, they definitely need more recognition.

[S15]

If I'm saying he's not atleast very talented I'm wrong?

I guess I'm wrong then, becasue he is not.

Bono, The Boss, McCartney, Lennon, Prince, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper, and even though I'm not a fan, Noel Gallagher fall in the catagory of 'very talented' song writers because over a 15-20 year period these guys have consistantly banged out great songs and have released many great albums, and even not so/as great albums which have sold millions of copies.

Those who have had what most consider one good album, lived of the hype for a bit then bugger off fall into the aptly put catagory of 'Lucky chancer who writes a decent song every so often.'

And I hasten to add being a great poetry writer does not in any way mean you are a good song writer.

Music is an extremely large factor when deciphering great song writers.

[tony gale's mic]

If I'm saying he's not atleast very talented I'm wrong?

I guess I'm wrong then, becasue he is not.

Bono, The Boss, McCartney, Lennon, Prince, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper, and even though I'm not a fan, Noel Gallagher fall in the catagory of 'very talented' song writers because over a 15-20 year period these guys have consistantly banged out great songs and have released many great albums, and even not so/as great albums which have sold millions of copies.

Those who have had what most consider one good album, lived of the hype for a bit then bugger off fall into the aptly put catagory of 'Lucky chancer who writes a decent song every so often.'

As I said, lucky chancers don't get identified as worthy to go on government funded trips to read out their poetry at the age of sixteen. The fact he's a brilliant lyricist (as was shown before anyone even knew who he was) and can construct at least a good tune represents a considerable talent, even when you look at it objectively. If you use record sales to justify talent then that's a very, very flawed argument.

People can be very talented and yet throw it away during their careers no matter whether theyre a musician, a footballer or anything else, which is what Pete looks like doing. But at least he's starred on one more excellent album than most of his peers.

And I hasten to add being a great poetry writer does not in any way mean you are a good song writer.

Music is an extremely large factor when deciphering great song writers.

Being a great lyricist is half of being a great songwriter, considering theyre the main two components. And much of his best work is musically very good too, although this is harder to really argue over.

[percy]

Maybe I'm simply wrong then.

I do think he wrote a few good songs, but he was never consistent enough in my opinion.

Compare him to the likes of John Bramwell (I Am Kloot) and there's a big difference. Bramwell's a better writer, IMO, seems to be alot more prolific and has been consistent enough to get 4 cracking albums done with IAK. Yet, there's quite a few people who haven't heard / seen IAK, due to a lack of coverage in the press (well, outside of Manchester anyway)....

Doherty's music just seems to be an aside from his wayward lifestyle and I think that the hype sometimes covers up what is, IMO, fairly average indie.

[Billy Castell]

I can some up an excellent counter argument to your comments with three words.

'You are wrong.'

Have you even listened to Up The Bracket? I mean really listened? Next you'll be saying The Beatles and Elvis Presley were rubbish.

OK, I take it back. Pete Doherty is the best musician that has ever existed. Up the bracket is the voice of God, and idiots like Beethoven are nowt but dribbling morons when compared to this genius. His music is like so life changing and stuff. He like speaks to like my soul with his songs. Maybe if I take smack and write a few songs, I can one day be declared a living God, and worshipped by teenie indie kids whilst I contract herpes and get away with various crimes. And then I can be NME's pin-up boy after I die young due to my own stupidity.

SFA are so much better, as are Divine Comedy, but they don't get the hype as they just get on with their music and don't go round skipping bail and being scanky little smackheads who rob their friends to feed their habit. But then I guess you have to do that kind of thing if you want to be idolised by fashionistas, 16 year olds and Heat/NME readers. To compare Pete with The Beatles is like comparing Steven Segal to Robert De Niro. He may have done some half decent singles, but come on now he has never been that good and never will.

[American]

If you want to go off of a good debut album, a lot of artists would be "geniuses", Darius Rucker and Hootie and the Blowfish as an example.

[DeadlyDirk]

OK, I take it back. Pete Doherty is the best musician that has ever existed. Up the bracket is the voice of God, and idiots like Beethoven are nowt but dribbling morons when compared to this genius. His music is like so life changing and stuff. He like speaks to like my soul with his songs. Maybe if I take smack and write a few songs, I can one day be declared a living God, and worshipped by teenie indie kids whilst I contract herpes and get away with various crimes. And then I can be NME's pin-up boy after I die young due to my own stupidity.

SFA are so much better, as are Divine Comedy, but they don't get the hype as they just get on with their music and don't go round skipping bail and being scanky little smackheads who rob their friends to feed their habit. But then I guess you have to do that kind of thing if you want to be idolised by fashionistas, 16 year olds and Heat/NME readers. To compare Pete with The Beatles is like comparing Steven Segal to Robert De Niro. He may have done some half decent singles, but come on now he has never been that good and never will.

Better? I wouldn't say that, SFA are a top band no doubt, can't say that I've heard a lot of Divine Comedy's stuff.

People concentrate too much on the attention Pete gets, the drugs, the crime, no showing gigs etc. He shouldn't get the attention he does for all this. If you forget about the person and just listen to the music though then he's wrote some top stuff. Babyshambles wasn't as good, but still some quality material in there, think his heart was out of it already by then.

He's wasting his talent, he could be brilliant if he got his ass into gear, I mean truly brilliant, at the moment he never will and I agree he hasn't done it over a lasting period of time like the true greats are.

I wasn't trying to compare him to the Beatles, there simply is no comparison with them, I was just trying to say thats the kind of scope your looking at if you think he's not talented at all.

He clearly was, could be again, could go down in history as a genius, will more than likely go down as someone who wasted his potential and died too young.

Steven Seagal? That did make me laugh!!! Fair play.

[Mc Love]

Here is some fresh new music from the Bad Boys of Irish Rap:

http://www.myspace.com/rubberbanditspranks

Listen to the song "Too Many Gee"

[CornwallRover]

This song is on repeat on my MP3 player at the moment, You - Atmosphere, from the brilliant album When Life Gives You Lemons.

[Sandiway Blue]

Regarding Pete docherty,i have to say this guy is bobbins and I totally agree with Billy Castell on this .He can`t sing to save his life and the fact that young impressionable teenagers are fawning over this jumped up smack-head is extemely worrying indeed.

And as for comparing him to Elvis and the Beatles tbh it is an insult.Ask anybody to name a Beatles or an Elvis song and you will get an immediate answer even though it has been well over 30 YEARS since either wrote a song.Ask anybody to name a song wrote or performed by Docherty within the last 5 years and i bet out of a room of 100 people you would be lucky to get more than 10 that would know any of his `music`, and i bet this will still be the case in 10 years from now never mind 30 years.

For me the only reason people will remember Docherty in 5 years time will sadly be for his drug-taking rather than his music.

Edited August 7, 2008 by bacup blue

[Nelsta]

As Teenage girls drool over boy bands and what ever crap X-Factor/Pop Idol churn out.

I personally think that the teenagers that think themselves to cool find themselves drawn to Pete Docherty.I think they genuinly go for the image and his reputation before the music.

Pete Docherty Musically is not anything new, nor anything groundbreaking.

There are far far greater more original bands that are/were over looked.

Like the ones mentioned above and many many more.

Super Furry Animals, Divine Comedy, I Am Kloot, Mull Historical Society they are all far better bands, But because they dont go round robbing people, doing drugs and just keep it about the music they are over looked.

Also, My friend gave me a CD the other day It's by Michael Head and The Strands it's called introducing the wonderful world of the strands, Anybody into I Am Kloot Should give it a listen.

[bob fleming]

who mumbles on about the albion like a tramp.

That hasn't done Frank Skinner any harm though has it?

[Rovermatt]

A slew of excellent points re: Doherty and his inane, gibberish music. I've had difficulty in the past putting my finger on just what annoys me about this over-hyped junkie and his soaringly pretentious persona and musical output but the points expressed above have helped me no end. Mentioning the guy in the same breath as Elvis or The Beatles is laughable.

[Tris]

Last night at The Crown in Darwen we saw this lot ...

Decadenze

They covered a number of songs by ACDC, Led Zep, Iron Maiden, Guns and Roses, Metallica, and also played some of their own stuff which is far from disappointing. The drummer in particular won't be playing in pubs for too long - he's awesome.

Decadenze playing at The Crown in Darwen again this Sunday at 6pm (next door to Sainsburys).

[JC4LAB]

Mathew Street Festival is on this Sunday/Monday Bank Holiday with some good as the real thing tribute Bands..The Kaiser Thiefs,The Fillers,Antartic Monkeys,Robbing Williams etc..This use to be a great the Beatles weekend with great Beatles tributes from around the world playing in the Cavern etc.but not so much Beatles nowadays...Shame....