[Archived] New Deal For Mokoena?

[philipl]

Thank you bish.

Another thing to bear in mind is that as we move towards 2010, the world's press will increasingly beat a path to the door of the host's captain and record number of caps holder. He will become a one man publicity machine for whichever club employs him.

[Ricky]

When he had a fairly long run in the team he started to look a half decent player to be fair. The problem really seems to be when he comes in for the odd game here and there, that's when he looks suspect.

[MarkBRFC]

When he had a fairly long run in the team he started to look a half decent player to be fair. The problem really seems to be when he comes in for the odd game here and there, that's when he looks suspect.

Fully agree with that, when Savage was injured for the second half of last season and Moko stepped in, he started to play well after half a dozen starts or so because he was playing regular.

[rover6]

The fact of the matter is, anyone who does his research will not pay £500k for the man. He has many international caps, he has Premier League experience but he is crud. There are negligent managers out there who will spend ridiculous amounts for experience, so who knows what we may one day get for him. In fact, the more he stays on he bench, the better, because his inadequacies will not be overly exposed.

Dominic Matteo was Leeds' star man in their relegation season, playing as a defensive midfielder. Did that make him worthy of a big money move to play CM at another club? Diagne Faye at Bolton played the totem in midfield to quite good effect. Is he a reasonable midfielder? Djimi Traore won the Champs League - would you want him in our squad, let alone team?

My belief is, anyone can play DM in a relegation-scuffling 4-5-1, who has basic ability and more importantly, the physical attributes. Could Jon Douglas not come on for 15 minutes with a remit of holding his position in front of the back four? Of course - it is a truly undemanding role.

Circumstances have a tendency to elevate people (and sometimes disparage them) undersevedly. Mokoena has been elevated far beyond his station. He has received the sort of cushy, unconditional love from Hughes that our youth players can only dream about.

Edited March 28, 2008 by rover6

[den]

Your first two sentences stand out Rover6. You use those kind of stats to push youngsters forward for the first team. Treacy in the form of his life for the irish U21s etc.

When it's someone not good enough, that means nothing, when it's a youngster it means everything.

Just an observation, no malice intended.

[brian_gallagher85]

When is his contract up anyway? As this will be the main factor in his price regardless of his ability.

[rover6]

Den, I was all for giving Mokoena a chance, like I am all for rewarding good youth players with chances or new signings.

It's when the player has clearly, over a number of games - even seasons - proved that he is not good enough that I draw the line.

If Treacy or Rigters came in for a bunch of games and made zero impression, I would accept that we have to look elsewhere. Mokoena has proved, on many occasions, that he is a poor player. And it's not as if he has age on his side to develop like, for example, Jamie Carragher of early 20s who was about as comfortable on the ball as Nils Eric Johansson wearing clogs. (exaggeration alert!.)

Edited March 28, 2008 by rover6

[den]

Den, I was all for giving Mokoena a chance, like I am all for rewarding good youth players with chances or new signings.

It's when the player has clearly, over a number of games - even seasons - proved that he is not good enough that I draw the line.

If Treacy or Rigters came in for a bunch of games and made zero impression, I would accept that we have to look elsewhere. Mokoena has proved, on many occasions, that he is a poor player. And it's not as if he has age on his side to develop like, for example, Jamie Carragher of early 20s who was about as comfortable on the ball as Nils Eric Johansson wearing clogs. (exaggeration alert!.)

Yes, so now you see, that playing in some junior international side doesn't mean sod all, does it? It's the only evidence that you ever put forward for the inclusion of any youngster.

[Ricky]

Rover6, I still stand by my comments that when the Axe WAS given a decent run of games he actually did a good job. He replaced the injured Savage and actually looked like a premiership player after a shaky start.

[Hughesy]

Spot on Ricky. Given the chance he does the job - hence why he would be worth £2m.

[Tris]

My belief is, anyone can play DM in a relegation-scuffling 4-5-1, who has basic ability and more importantly, the physical attributes. Could Jon Douglas not come on for 15 minutes with a remit of holding his position in front of the back four? Of course - it is a truly undemanding role.

What a bunch of crap.

[brian_gallagher85]

I'm sure Derby and Fulham fans will also disagree.

Moko will forever by a legend in my eyes for his "tackle" on Robben

Edited March 28, 2008 by brian_gallagher85

[waggy]

i know kicking your own centre forward makes you a idiot

[RevidgeBlue]

Mokoena had an exceptional run when he first came to the club sweeping up as part of a five man midfield in our initial survival exercise under Sparky.

Since then he has never looked anything like the part when playing in a conventional four man midfield, and imo would struggle to hold down a place in a Championship side let alone the Premiership.

"South African international" sounds reasonably impressive though so with a bit of luck we should be able to con someone out of 500k for him.

[rover6]

My belief is, anyone can play DM in a relegation-scuffling 4-5-1, who has basic ability and more importantly, the physical attributes. Could Jon Douglas not come on for 15 minutes with a remit of holding his position in front of the back four? Of course - it is a truly undemanding role.

What a bunch of crap.

Well reasoned.

You don't think that the holding midfield role is undemanding and does not take a genius, or even a good player to perform it okay?

Well, are you aware that Aaron Mokoena was pilloried by South African national media and fans for his dire performances in the run-up to the recent African Cup of Nations AS A HOLDING MIDFIELDER? (As was their manager for the selection).

Are you aware that in response to Mokoena's technical inability, the South African boss, gave him the specific remit to not try any long pass, if he can help it?

Are you aware that South Africa flopped badly in the ACN. And I believe that now, Mokoena is back to playing centre back for them.

(Edit: for all those slamming Mokoena for injuring Santa Cruz, you must bear in mind that he was captaining a South Africa who are under intense domestic pressure from media and managers for recent failures and the fact that they lie outside the top 70 in the FIFA world rankings. They had something to prove).

Edited March 28, 2008 by rover6

[Ricky]

Moved all the Axe talk from the Vogel thread to here. Makes more sense really.

[Lathund]

You don't think that the holding midfield role is undemanding and does not take a genius, or even a good player to perform it okay?

Well, are you aware that Aaron Mokoena was pilloried by South African national media and fans for his dire performances in the run-up to the recent African Cup of Nations AS A HOLDING MIDFIELDER? (As was their manager for the selection).

The very fact that Mokoena apparently didn't perform well in that role surely means that it *is* demanding? And if Liverpool's third string keeper could perform that role well, why did they spend all that money on Mascherano? Likewise United with Hargreaves?

[Mc Love]

Get him out now....useless....(Moko's thoughts in the match: Oh there is my good team mate Santa Cruz, maybe Mark Hughes will play me upfront if I injure our leading goalscorer:THUMP: oh know what have I done?!??

[rover6]

Is anyone now prepared to give me a bit of credit for my argument that the holding midfield role is one of the least demanding?

The fact that Emerton can come in and play well there with little Prem experience of the position (against seriously good teams) is evidence of that. As I said before, if you have reasonable technique to retain possession, good work ethic and decent mobility - you can do a adequate, or better, job in that role. It's the very reason Phil Neville played there for Man U. It's the reason that Vogel can come in having not played competitive football for yonks and play okay.

And it is the only reason Aaron Mokoena passes as a Premiership footballer. But now Emerton has done a good job there, and we have Vogel and I'm sure Reid could play that role - I see absolutely no reason for keeping the Axe.

[philipl]

Is anyone now prepared to give me a bit of credit for my argument that the holding midfield role is one of the least demanding?

No- it was rubbish before and is still rubbish now.

Sorry and all that but there is no such thing as a least demanding position when you are playing Premiership football, least of all when facing Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Carrick et al.

What yesterday did show is that Emerton besides being a supreme athlete is also developing a cracking good footballer's brain and that he can use his pace and close control inside as well as outside. It also showed the value of Vogel's experience and ability in that Emerton was able to play alongside him like they had been playing together all season.

[Paul Mellelieu]

If the role's that easy why have Chelsea, Liverpool and Man United spent tens of millions on holding midfield players? They could have signed the Axe for next to nothing!

[rover6]

The role's not easy but one of the least demanding. Of course, Makelele, Hargreaves, Mascherano are fantastic players because not only do they have the basic attributes of stamina, pace, strength, endeavour BUT they also have close control, flair, short and long-range passing ability, vision, creativity, - in fact, wasn't Claude Makelele once a winger!

However, Emerton can do a good job there because the role does not require you to have great attacking skills. Emerton has minimal vision, creativity or attacking guile but he has strong physical attributes and decent technique. The holding midfielder has time on the ball because he occupies that vacuum pocket in front of the back four. He can make short, undemanding passes (sideways/backwards) and concentrate on tackling and tracking back.

And the thing is, if you make an error, you usually have four defenders behind you who might just save your skin. If you're a defender, an error is much more likely to lead to an opposition goal.

The fact is, Mokoena has made himself look reasonable by occupying the least demanding role on a footy pitch. And he still manages to mess up - the guy's huge but he can't head a ball. I cannot believe how lenient Rovers fans are of Mokoena. He was very culpable for Man U's goal, and he was marking a much shorter man but still did his dying swan attempt at clearing the cross.

(I assume he was meant to be marking Scholes, as he was the closest to him).

Edited April 20, 2008 by rover6

[Ronin]

Good news!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...amp;ito=newsnow

[BRFC95]

Good news!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...amp;ito=newsnow

Fingers crossed eh

[Cocker]

Fingers crossed eh

plus legs, eyes, ears, arms - anything really.