[Archived] Killing Us!

[cletus]

For the few that actually ARE fans as opposed to the ones who say they're fans and never attend, I think the lack of access to the games will make a difference, and I don't think the club should drop prices. I think we're already very competitive. Arsenal have 5 Category A games where the cheapest ticket is £46(nearest neighbours plus Manure). We need to maximise revenue from our nearest neighbours too.

As for the numpty who said "it only cost me £32 to watch Arsenal away last season and this season Rovers are charging £36 to watch Everton" Can anyone spot the inconsistency????

You really are a pr1ck aren`t you?

[blue phil]

This letter won't make the slightest bit of difference whatsoever . People will just blame the club for encouraging Sky to go down this route . They won't like being virtually blackmailed into going down to Ewood and will be less inclined to watch the Rovers than they were before .

And meantime the prices will go up and the gates will carry on going down and down ......until there's only The Drog and Jan there paying the "market" price ...

[thenodrog]

And meantime the prices will go up and the gates will carry on going down and down ......until there's only The Drog and Jan there paying the "market" price ...

Comments like that do illustrate why everything we do turns out to be second rate. The TV coverage ensures that the whole country now know that BRFC are a Premier league team but with fizzy pop level supporters! People all over the country take the p1ss out of whippets and ferrets, flat caps and clogs........ I guess it's a matter of time before Blackburn Rovers are added to that list!

Tell me how and why on earth can you expect BRFC to charge less than Burnley and Preston ffs? Crass stupidity!

Tell you what..... you dont want BRFC to change (as I know it eventually will have to) so what is your solution Phil? Just please dont bang on about lowering prices again! Every marketeer in the land worth his salt knows that lowering prices ultimately devalues the product. It always reduces revenue and eventually reduces demand. People are so incredibly selfish nowadays. Anybody out there think they need more money? Right well instead of whingeing about not being able to afford the basics then just get off your arse and go and make some money then..... and don't expect someone else to subsidise you through life.

You all know that there really is only one way forward anyway.

btw Mods.... can you please change the title of this thread to

"Whining Luddite supporters are Killing us"

[Scotty]

I love the way you ask other people for their solutions Theno without ever properly describing how yours would work. There's been loads of counter arguments put forward by myself and others about why "Lancahire United" wouldn't work - you never refute anything, never argue your case. All you do is repeat the same slogan "there's only one way forward".

Please tell us all about this way forward. How will it work exactly? How will it get around the existing league rules that do not permit clubs to merge? How will it get past the animosity of the fans that have lost their football clubs? Where will the new stadium be located? Who will pay for the new stadium? Which clubs will be part of this merger? How will this affect the rest of the league - I mean, if we're merging will other clubs? Does this mean we'll just end up with regional / county teams rather than town / city ones? Will there still be a lower level of football?

I'm basically just looking for some evidence that you've actually thought any of this through at all.

[blue phil]

I've already offered one potential solution - offer adult tickets at the "market" price but with a couple of free tickets for kids thrown in . That way at least you have a chance of getting seats filled and win potential new recruits for the future . I know both my lads are now avid supporters because I took them from an early age . Charging - or attempting to - £30 odd quid for an adult who is then expected to pay another £30 for his kids is just plain madness in this area of the country . You alienate BOTH the existing fans AND their kids .

Now you may call me tight or stupid or disloyal or all three ; I don't care in the slightest . All I know is that by keeping prices at this level we are losing support on an almost weekly basis . It is a false economy in the medium run never mind the long run . Liverpool and Arse etc can afford to lose 10,000+ fans and keep prices high . We can't . We have to make economies elsewhere . Either that or sit with 10,000 people all paying £50 or £60 a ticket . Where's your breaking point , Theno ?

As for Lancashire Utd ; forget it . Anyone brought up supporting the Rovers would rather pay a fiver and watch them in the conference than support a Big Business Soulless Conglomerate Utd . That goes for Burnley , Preston , Blackpool fans as well . life doesn't begin and end in the premiership .

[thenodrog]

1. How will it work exactly? Dunno

2. How will it get around the existing league rules that do not permit clubs to merge? Dunno

3. How will it get past the animosity of the fans that have lost their football clubs? Dunno

4. Where will the new stadium be located? Dunno

5. Who will pay for the new stadium? Dunno

6. Which clubs will be part of this merger? Dunno

7. How will this affect the rest of the league - I mean, if we're merging will other clubs? Does this mean we'll just end up with regional / county teams rather than town / city ones? Will there still be a lower level of football? Dun....... err No idea scotty.

btw if you want you can substitute 'dunno' with 'don't care'.

All I know is that if football was started now then there is no way that 92 clubs would be formed. The footballing public are simply unable and unwilling to fund them. Sky money funds the Prem and the rest are scraping the bottom of the barrell. How do clubs like Hartlepool, Scunthorpe, Rochdale and even Stanley keep going for goodness sake? No future, no hope, no nothing except annual struggle to pay the milkman and the window cleaner. Local businessmans ego trips / playthings is about all they have become. Like dinosaurs they are throw backs to an age before TV, radio and cars.

London has at least 13 professional league clubs! The entire concept of 92 professional clubs just does not make any sense, how many ever play in front of sell out crowds? Don't look back at Blackburns sometime proud history, try to look forward and to ways of improving our lot. 10 years ago the club led by JW were considering developing the Riverside and making Ewood into a 40,000 seater stadium......seems totally ludicrous now doesn't it? And especially so when supporters are deserting at the current rate despite last seasons successes. Just how many stands do you think will have closed by the time another decade has passed scotty?

Without some false messiah turning up with oodles of roubles....... for a year or two....there really is only one option.

[Scotty]

So you've not thought it through at all then.

Even if what you say happens, your "solution" is simply unworkable. I mean, you're the one proposing it and you can't see how it's going to work!

[thenodrog]

......Liverpool and Arse etc can afford to lose 10,000+ fans and keep prices high . We can't . We have to make economies elsewhere . Either that or sit with 10,000 people all paying £50 or £60 a ticket . Where's your breaking point , Theno ?

As for Lancashire Utd ; forget it . Anyone brought up supporting the Rovers would rather pay a fiver and watch them in the conference than support a Big Business Soulless Conglomerate Utd . That goes for Burnley , Preston , Blackpool fans as well . life doesn't begin and end in the premiership .

10,000 x £50 = £500,000

30,000 x £10 = £300,000

btw basic maths show that only 5000 willing to pay £60 will meet your full house income! Less variable costs required to.

Liverpool is not a wealthy place Phil.... it just has a larger fan base! We in BBurn are faced with a falling population of fans mainly because of demographic changes, so we have a desperate need to increase our fan base..... simple as that. We cannot expand because of our surrounding neighbours who by and large are on the horns of a similar dilemma themselves. Please can you or scotty give me an option to our decline?

As for watching BRFC in the conference...... sorry, but even if they gave me a fiver to go my life is just too short.

btw I've managed to get you and scotty to unite! PNE / Notlob / Turdites should be a piece of p1ss!

Edited August 31, 2006 by thenodrog

[BuckyRover]

I've already offered one potential solution - offer adult tickets at the "market" price but with a couple of free tickets for kids thrown in . That way at least you have a chance of getting seats filled and win potential new recruits for the future . I know both my lads are now avid supporters because I took them from an early age . Charging - or attempting to - £30 odd quid for an adult who is then expected to pay another £30 for his kids is just plain madness in this area of the country . You alienate BOTH the existing fans AND their kids .

Now you may call me tight or stupid or disloyal or all three ; I don't care in the slightest . All I know is that by keeping prices at this level we are losing support on an almost weekly basis . It is a false economy in the medium run never mind the long run . Liverpool and Arse etc can afford to lose 10,000+ fans and keep prices high . We can't . We have to make economies elsewhere . Either that or sit with 10,000 people all paying £50 or £60 a ticket . Where's your breaking point , Theno ?

As for Lancashire Utd ; forget it . Anyone brought up supporting the Rovers would rather pay a fiver and watch them in the conference than support a Big Business Soulless Conglomerate Utd . That goes for Burnley , Preston , Blackpool fans as well . life doesn't begin and end in the premiership .

I agree totally. If Adults only had to pay for their tickets, the kids would become fans for life, and when they can actually afford to pay (when they are earning as adults) you will have fans for life.

The only problem is that it is a long term plan, and we need short term financial security

[thenodrog]

So you've not thought it through at all then.

Even if what you say happens, your "solution" is simply unworkable. I mean, you're the one proposing it and you can't see how it's going to work!

I've only pointed the OBVIOUS way forward not conducted a sodding feasibility study! Give us all your LONG TERM solution to our falling support then.

I agree totally. If Adults only had to pay for their tickets, the kids would become fans for life, and when they can actually afford to pay (when they are earning as adults) you will have fans for life.

But surely 99% of us were taken by our dads to BRFC anyway! Thats why we support them now for goodness sake! Where are we going to magic up all these 'Dads' from?

[BuckyRover]

I was taken by my friend and his mother.

My Dad is not a Blackburn fan

So thats two for starters

[Jan]

I was taken by my friend and his mother.

My Dad is not a Blackburn fan

So thats two for starters

I went of my own volition- my dad doesn't like football. Three

Edited August 31, 2006 by Jan

[FourLaneBlue]

As for watching BRFC in the conference...... sorry, but even if they gave me a fiver to go my life is just too short.

Of course it is...because you are a glory hunter...or at least sounding like one Gordon!

You like to think deep down that you aren't (and keep reminding yourself of the sacrifices you made in the years after 1966) but there it is in your own words.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing...but come on, let's be honest about your Lancashire United idea. It is all about being still able to compete at the top. Nothing to do with Blackburn Rovers as an institution or supporting your local team and its heritage.

The truth is though that the world already has a LANCASHIRE UNITED...go over the Stretford way and you'll find it...

..you're about a hundred and ten years too late I'm afraid!

Edited September 1, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Paul]

Just please dont bang on about lowering prices again! Every marketeer in the land worth his salt knows that lowering prices ultimately devalues the product. It always reduces revenue and eventually reduces demand.

It isn't lowering prices alone that reduces demand and devalues the product. You are right in saying the product becomes devalued but wrong, IMO, in the cause. Product availability coupled with low pricing by multiple retailers is the usual reason. The product I market, bedding plants, has had a maximum retail value of £2.99 for the past twelve years, you can buy it in most major retailers for as little as £1.99 on occassions. Sales for the six months to June 2006 rose by 14% nationaly but DIY sheds increased their market share once again, taking trade from traditional outlets. Without banging on about this the fundamental reason for a static RP for twelve years is widespread availability and the product becoming a Known Value Item.

I can only talk authoritively about my market but there are of other examples: TVs, CD players, MP3 players, milk, beer, bread, clothes etc

Football is in a strange position. The product has been totally devalued in the past 15 years by Sky (the multiple retailer), in particular, and the media in general through massive over-exposure (i.e increased availability) to the point the product is no longer unique. Once a product reaches this level value drops dramatically. On the other hand costs continue to rise year on year, at present the clubs are attempting to recoup these costs through higher pricing. They will fail now consumers have discovered the products real value; the lowest level being free with every pint of beer purchased in your local.

While the PL blindly continues to market itself in this way attendances will continue to decline and fans will not return. My company is more profitable now than ten years ago despite the retail price of our core product remaining static. We simply found ways to cut costs while adding value to our products. Until football takes a realistic approach to both costs and pricing attendances will continue to fall. No industry can survive by expecting to increase its price expotentially.

Arguements put forward which revolve around the consumer "paying the going rate" to fund PL status are fundamentally flawed. A product only sells if retail pricing matches the customer's perceived value or the customer does not know the product's true value. The perceived value of a football ticket is way below £36 and therein lays the problem.

Football clubs have lost the price war, their only optiion is to reduce costs and find the true retail value of their product. Major clubs with a large fan base will be the last to reflect this but it will happen, there is a limit to the number of replacement sales one can make. Blackburn Rovers have no opportunity for replacement sales, that is our problem.

[thenodrog]

We in BBurn are faced with a falling population of fans mainly because of demographic changes, so we have a desperate need to increase our fan base..... simple as that. We cannot expand because of our surrounding neighbours who by and large are on the horns of a similar dilemma themselves. Please can you or scotty give me an option to our decline?

Major clubs with a large fan base will be the last to reflect this but it will happen, there is a limit to the number of replacement sales one can make. Blackburn Rovers have no opportunity for replacement sales, that is our problem.

A point that we agree on Paul ..... and the inescapable nub of the situation.

Edited September 1, 2006 by thenodrog

[Glenn]

I went of my own volition- my dad doesn't like football. Three

Four. My dads a Liverpool fan .... now I take HIM to Rovers from time to time.

[thenodrog]

So basically if it was just down to free tickets for t'lad wi't dad you 4 wouldn't be brfc supporters then?

[Paul]

A point that we agree on Paul ..... and the inescapable nub of the situation.

Good and I can answer another of your concerns:

give me an option to our decline?

If we can agree football is simply a product competing in the leisure industry I believe there some very obvious comparisons and a model for the Rovers to follow.

Look at supermarkets, not in the leisure industry as such, and their market positioning. As a consumer I can chose between the big four, the price -led outlets and the quality outlets. I'll use Tesco, Aldi and Booths for my example. As a consumer I want value for money and for my expectations to be met, these two are a crucial combination.

For general shopping we visit any of the big four, we have no loyalty. When I go to Tesco my expectation is to purchase everything I need, at a reasonable price, average service level and with a minimum of hassle. Frankly it's a chore and the challenge is for Tesco to make it as pleasant as possible.

I rarely visit Aldi but I'm sad enough to receive the bi-weekly special offer e-mail. On occassions this includes real bargains that I want. I then plan to visit Aldi on the first day of the offer. It meets my expecation of cheap price, rubbish service and that I may have to return the product if it doesn't work.

Booths - the cream of supermarkets, but really it's an upmarket retailer. Visiting Booths is wonderful. Excellent products, great service, high prices and Booths always exceed my expectations. I'll pay the price Booths demand and feel good about it. The experience is good and the price comes a long way second.

The problem in football is the product has not really changed while, for many, the matchday experience has deteriorated. Rovers generally meet my expectations BUT crucially my expectation is low. The experience of visiting any ground is very poor. Those who visit the pub are really saying this is no longer value for money, you don't match my expectations and the pub has actually begun to meet my expectation. Take away football culture and you alienate the customer, if it isn't properly replaced those fans ultimately walk away.

The challenge for Rovers is to decide on their market position and work accordingly. Are we going to be Tesco, Aldi or Booths. At present we're Booths on price and Aldi for the rest. If Rovers or any other club continue to charge £36 to watch football they have a mountain to climb in terms of exceeding customer expectations. The match day experience is very poor, improve this and the perceived value increases. While we continue to offer the same product at its current price attendances will continue to decline.

I would argue the solution for Rovers is to become the Booths of north-west football. Great experience, great service, real feel good factor. If we can't do that the only answer is to compete on price.

[FourLaneBlue]

The problem in football is the product has not really changed while, for many, the matchday experience has deteriorated. Rovers generally meet my expectations BUT crucially my expectation is low. The experience of visiting any ground is very poor. Those who visit the pub are really saying this is no longer value for money, you don't match my expectations and the pub has actually begun to meet my expectation. Take away football culture and you alienate the customer, if it isn't properly replaced those fans ultimately walk away.

Watching the game on TV used to be a poor second to watching it live because the best thing about going to Ewood was the atmosphere. Lots of singing, funny chants being slung towards the opposition end and being able to walk around.

These days with the drummers and many half empty and soulless stadiums going to the football just isn't the same for many. It's been sanitised, moved away from the preserve of the working man and repackaged as a family-friendly product. This may be a good thing...yet it does mean that many of those who used to the backbone of football support are happier in the pub.

Maybe the craic there is just as good as at the ground now?

[Paul]

One great example of the experience is happening now. Around 500 fans are making plans for the trip to Salzburg. Their expectations of the whole experience are very high, they've been excited since the draw was made. Yes they are shopping around for cheap flights but ultimately the cost is irrelevant because the feel good factor is there. These fans are going to spend £4-500 just to watch a a game of footie.

Makes the point for me. Right product, high expectation, cost is last on the list.

[Ste B]

, cost is last on the list.

I disagree, Cost is very high up the list. Which is why theres plenty of independant travellers doing whatever they can to see the match rather than pay the 479 that the club are asking for.

[SuperStella]

Plus the fact its could be our last game in Europe for a long time, and people see it as a 3 day break on the lash, with a Rovers game thrown in for good measure.

You can hardly compare it to paying £36 for Rovers v Everton on a wet Wednesday night.....when its on in the warm pub on telly.

It's all very well and good saying 'ban foreign telly' etc etc. But I cant bring myself to join in with this. I've watched foreign several times when Rovers are away. I.e. Portsmouth, when I saved about £80 by not going - this is going towards funding my Austrian trip.

Also, what about Sky? Ban that as well?

I'm sure there are lots of rovers ''fans'' who wouldnt go even if we sent a taxi round to their house, and let them on the ground for free.

[FourLaneBlue]

A lot of fans prefer away games to home matches anyway. Better atmosphere, lots of singing...At Ewood it's just lots of shouts of "Gerrrintoemmm".

The problem of this is that, other than in the cups, Rovers don't see a penny of the money.

[Paul]

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QUOTE(Ste B @ Sep 1 2006, 10:21 ) 441588[/snapback]

I disagree, Cost is very high up the list. Which is why theres plenty of independant travellers doing whatever they can to see the match rather than pay the 479 that the club are asking for.

Yes of course cost is important but it isn't the over-riding factor. The main point is fans are travelling, minimising cost where possible but still spending £000s for one game because the experience is going to be much higher.

[3rdpillar]

Maybe the craic there is just as good as at the ground now?

Sure is, you only have to listen to the "old gits" complaining...those were the days on the Riverside when shouts of "bl00dy H3ll Crawford"...resounded.

These old gits are now funnier more bitter and twisted and make for great listening whist supping a pint and watching on tv, never mind the free half time curry!