[Archived] Killing Us!

[philipl]

If PSV v Liverpool was the game offered up to the British public you were terribly short changed.

I was able to watch the Barca and Bayern games and they were both cracking entertainment. Barca were everything Chelsea are not at the moment- fluid, incisive, brilliant whilst Bayern cramked up the luckiest 4-0 win I'll ever see. How the Russians didn't get their noses in front in the first 50 minutes, only Oliver Kahn and the Gods will know. Even after Bayern had started scoring, Moscow still kept creating fantastic chances.

From what I have read, Benitez indulged in a massively cynical selection which produced a massively cynical result. Hopefully there are more Evertons than PSVs lurking out there when it comes to playing Liverpool.

Tonight's CL games have also set off with a rush of goals.

Clearly with the massive increase in TV exposure, fans are demanding far more high quality performances and entertainment. The desperate need to preserve status for financial survival unfortunately is producing more desperately negative and cynical football which is another self-destroying cycle afflicting our game.

[thenodrog]

At least those who watch in the pub are only paying for their ale - the landlord is paying SKy!

C'mon Phil you are not naive enough to believe that.

On the contrary - both are to blame , those who pay Sky and those fools who happily pay £36 to watch a bunch of ponces prance around a field .

Phil....I keep telling you that those games only cost me £21! £36 should not even enter the equation for people who claim staunch lifelong support for BRFc and who live in or around the town!

If I chose to pay £36 I'd only get to see 11 games for the money that I currently watch every home game, 1 free european game and as many reserve games as I choose to attend.

[blue phil]

Well you and I are lucky enough to benefit from having a season ticket ; many walk on fans aren't that lucky . These are the fans who are being priced out of the game ....plus the walk ons won't want to be shoved in the bike shed on a winter's day to see the game at a "lower" price .

Put it this way , Theno ; I'm a long term season ticket holder and don't consider myself a Sky fan or a part timer or a couch potato ....but if I didn't have a season ticket I probably would have reached my limit by now with the pricing structure that Rovers offer . Thousands have gone before me and there are plenty more to go yet , believe me ....

[Alan75]

Well I have to agree with blue phil, if I didnt have a season ticket, then I wouldnt pay the walk on price.

For years Ive travelled the length of the country for home games, even to watch the youth team, however even though I am now moving back to the northwest, any further increase in ticket prices, sadly could be the straw that broke the camels back.

[den]

I partly understand the need for "entertainment" from rovers, or any club. Let's not get carried away though, by this tagging of football as being entertainment.

Football isn't choreographed or rehearsed - it's a sport at the end of the day. Some days the team plays well and entertains, some days they don't. It's not for the want of trying. It's a professional sport, where the aim is to win, NOT to entertain.

Entertainment is also in the mind of the supporter. You can be entertained watching park football. The poorest of park games can still make for a very enjoyable afternoon. Some of this, is down to the attitude of the fan.

[Paul]

I partly understand the need for "entertainment" from rovers, or any club. Let's not get carried away though, by this tagging of football as being entertainment.

I understand what you say den but ask a question. Lets put aside the two cup competitions as I think the PL is the main problem. Other than the top four winning the PL is out of the question, finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th is seen as an achievement. It is an achievement but is always calculated in financial terms not sporting ones. Those clubs who finish 5-7th are rewarded with a UEFA cup place; a tournament with 134 entered teams, other than the English teams at a push 21 of those clubs are worth getting excited about. Llanelli at home anyone?

If it isn't entertainment what is it? Provided a club doesn't get involved in relegation struggle most results don't really matter, it's just a case of moving up and down a couple of spots. I want to be entertained by watching my team win a game playing good football. There's nothing else left for the fans. Is the season to revolve around putting one over Arsenal, Liverpool or Utd? That's pretty much the point we've reached.

I understand thenodrog's view on prices and being fortunate to watch PL football but this is close to saying we are getting the best entertainment and should pay for it. Do I really care about watching Ballack, Lampard and Schevchenko? Frankly no, I go to watch Blackburn Rovers, not "some of the best players in the world."

[bob fleming]

Well I have to agree with blue phil, if I didnt have a season ticket, then I wouldnt pay the walk on price.

Same here. How can anyone justify forking out £36 to get on Ewood when the match is being shown live on Sky?

The only thing this'll achieve is that existing season ticket holders will be ensuring that they must get a season ticket next year as well, if they want to keep wtaching their team in a 2/3 full stadium. There is no way our gates will be higher this season than last.

In the meantime the propensity for the "casual" fan to "walk on" and get the Blackburn Rovers bug is lost. That's despite "cheap" tickets in other areas of the ground. I'd imagine that the overall perception "round the town" is that it costs £36 to get into Rovers these days.

[AggyBlue]

Entertainment is also in the mind of the supporter. You can be entertained watching park football. The poorest of park games can still make for a very enjoyable afternoon. Some of this, is down to the attitude of the fan.

Got to disagree with that, I watch park football every sunday morning. It is down to the attitude of the players.

No theatricals, in short, no blatent cheating.

No mass protests to the referee, trying to influence his decision making.

Most of us have played football at some stage of our lives, be it school, pub or local leagues.

That is real football and what the premier league serves up these days bears very little resemblance to the game we played or if you're old enough, the game we used to watch.

[thenodrog]

I understand thenodrog's view on prices and being fortunate to watch PL football but this is close to saying we are getting the best entertainment and should pay for it. Do I really care about watching Ballack, Lampard and Schevchenko? Frankly no, I go to watch Blackburn Rovers, not "some of the best players in the world."

I suggest thats where we differ then. After my formative years watching us sink lower and lower through the divisions I think of it as a priveledge to see our team BRFC both containing and being regularly pitted against some of the worlds best talent...... sorry to labour the same point but on my doorstep and for £21

[FourLaneBlue]

Football isn't choreographed or rehearsed - it's a sport at the end of the day. Some days the team plays well and entertains, some days they don't. It's not for the want of trying. It's a professional sport, where the aim is to win, NOT to entertain.

When the admission price was no more than a few pints that may have been the case. Yet now when people are being asked to contribute what is a fair whack (twenty quid a game is it even for season ticket holders is still a fair outlay for ninety minutes of football) they might want more than dull fare served up in a half-empty stadium. Times have changed and so have the expectations of many supporters.

Edited September 14, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[FourLaneBlue]

Same here. How can anyone justify forking out £36 to get on Ewood when the match is being shown live on Sky?

£36 for the Chelsea game on a Sunday which was to be shown on Sky was barmy.

If supporters (ex-supporters, couch potatos whatever you wish to call them) are being priced out of the big games then they aren't likely to be coming back for the cheaper ones are they?

The club often gets a lot of grief unfairly and often for things that are not its fault but some of their pricing policies this season are self-defeating.

[Biddy]

£36 for the Chelsea game on a Sunday which was to be shown on Sky was barmy.

If supporters (ex-supporters, couch potatos whatever you wish to call them) are being priced out of the big games then they aren't likely to be coming back for the cheaper ones are they?

The club often gets a lot of grief unfairly and often for things that are not its fault but some of their pricing policies this season are self-defeating.

But surely £36 was the top price. As people keep saying, tickets could have been bought for £29 which is a bit better.

[adopted scouser]

Mediocre games that continue to be more expensive. Vastly wealthy teams occupying the same league as teams with limited funds and an even more limited fanbase. Got a freebie at Old Trafford last week, and if you take away the grub. booze, free programme, free admission, Frank Stapleton going table to table and Dennis Irwin holding the door open for you - it was at best a mediocre game.

As a neutral I enjoyed the day out, but it felt like a cake you used to look forward to as a kid suddenly had fifty odd toppings on it, so much so you couldn't find the cake anymore.

Man United, Blackburn - whatever. For me footie is wall to wall, saturated in cash and as a result a lot of the magic has disappeared. I can still remember sitting in the riverside with a flask of bovril, laughing with my mate at the fan with the bald head who had the players sign it as he ran round the pitch, Howard Kendall era I think. Where they used to open the doors between the enclosure and the Darwen end twenty minutes before the end of the game, as kids we could sneak in and watch the end for nowt. Or through the turnstile at the Blackburn End, up the concrete terrace past the red railings to see the pitch in front of you and people getting ready for the game.

On a course in Burnley yesterday listening to a mate who had watched the clarets come from two nil down against Barnsley, to win four nil. He paid about fifteen quid to get in, spent the rest of the night down the pub, and was making plans to get to Stoke on Saturday.

Shocking I know .... but felt slightly envious.

[CAPT KAYOS]

It's a professional sport, where the aim is to win, NOT to entertain.

Apparently not though nowadays as the tactics and mentalities adopted bear more to not getting beat rather than trying to win a game which I feel is where the natural entertainment 'gets lost' most of the time.

Edited September 14, 2006 by CAPT KAYOS

[den]

When the admission price was no more than a few pints that may have been the case. Yet now when people are being asked to contribute what is a fair whack (twenty quid a game is it even for season ticket holders is still a fair outlay for ninety minutes of football) they might want more than dull fare served up in a half-empty stadium. Times have changed and so have the expectations of many supporters.

Expectations may have changed, but so has the sport. Winning is everything, entertainment comes second. Having said that, football games have always been good and bad, nothings changd there. When I was younger, every game was great. Maybe it's our attitude that's changed as we get older, rather than the game itself.

Teams can't turn the entertainment on and off as desired, as I said it's sport, not a west end show. It was always that way, wasn't it?

[FourLaneBlue]

But surely £36 was the top price. As people keep saying, tickets could have been bought for £29 which is a bit better.

£27 in the outer sections of the Riverside. To be honest that's even worse value than the £36 in the BBE! The facilities are poor compared to the other three stands and you also have to miss the last ten minutes as it says on the ticket* you have to be seen walking out at that time in full view of the TV cameras!

* - Note...may not strictly be true.

Teams can't turn the entertainment on and off as desired, as I said it's sport, not a west end show. It was always that way, wasn't it?

Yes but the point is it wasn't always this expensive to see it!

When people are being asked to pay out the equivalent of the ticket price to a - you mention West End show or we could mention whatever else - every week then they start (rightly or wrongly) to expect better!

Something like a West End show used to be a special occasion and you'd have got ten games in down the Rovers for that!

Edited September 14, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Jan]

£27 in the outer sections of the Riverside. To be honest that's even worse value than the £36 in the BBE! The facilities are poor compared to the other three stands and you also have to miss the last ten minutes as it says on the ticket* you have to be seen walking out at that time in full view of the TV cameras!

* - Note...may not strictly be true.

And in the Jack Walker Lower outer. Please now tell us how bad the facilities are in there.......

People will bend the truth so far to try and back up a point.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Jan

[FourLaneBlue]

And in the Jack Walker Lower outer. Please now tell us how bad the facilities are in there.......

People will bend the truth so far o try and back up a point.

Actually I didn't know that about the Jack Walker Outer and you should know about bending the truth to back up your points

Nice to you meet you Miss Kettle, my name is Mr Pot

Edited September 14, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Jan]

£27 in the outer sections of the Riverside. To be honest that's even worse value than the £36 in the BBE! The facilities are poor compared to the other three stands and you also have to miss the last ten minutes as it says on the ticket* you have to be seen walking out at that time in full view of the TV cameras!

* - Note...may not strictly be true.

Yes but the point is it wasn't always this expensive to see it!

When people are being asked to pay out the equivalent of the ticket price to a - you mention West End show or we could mention whatever else - every week then they start (rightly or wrongly) to expect better!

Something like a West End show used to be a special occasion and you'd have got ten games in down the Rovers for that!

A decent seat at a West End show is £55. I don't think any of our seats are that much.

Actually I didn't know that about the Jack Walker Outer and you should know about bending the truth to back up your points

Nice to you meet you Miss Kettle, my name is Mr Por

And you should then do your research better....................!!!

Examples of the latter, please

Edited September 14, 2006 by Jan

[FourLaneBlue]

Regarding the West End reference...that was meant to show that it was seen like a special one-off performance whereas football was much more regular and much more accessible to all. If the usual price is £55 then it is still under £20 more for what we expect is guaranteed entertainment.

den was saying that it can't be compared to a West End show - the prices are no longer that different.

Edited September 14, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Jan]

Regarding the West End reference...that was meant to show that it was seen like a special one-off performance whereas football was much more regular and much more accessible to all. If the usual price is £55 then it is still under £20 more for what we expect is guaranteed entertainment.

den was saying that it can't be compared to a West End show - the prices are no longer that different.

Oh dear

£27 (JWL price- decent seat) is less than half of £55. (27+27=54)

[den]

I was trying to say to the people who sit and think "entertain me", that footballs not like that.

That's all.

[FourLaneBlue]

Fine. Congratulations in 'catching me out'. Silly me - still referring to the BBE price. Well done Jan.

Of course it would have been more relevant to compare a West End production coming to Blackburn - would they charge West End prices then? All year? How much is an average Blackburn income? Half (at best) that of a Londoner? So, relatively speaking, they can't be that far off in terms of how it hits the pocket.

Of course not...they have to work with their immediate surroundings.

So...we were talking about the Chelsea game. It's been moved to a Sunday so not a good time for many. It's also on the TV. Should they really be making that an A+ game?

Some people on this board are worried about the long-term future this will have on our football club whereas as others just don't seem to care. They're alright Jack perhaps?

I'm not suggesting any of this is easy for Rovers but some steps could help...

1. Get Kids in, for every match, for a small fee. If it means losing some revenue then so be it as it can't really be that much in the scheme of things.

2. Some kind of more flexible half-season ticket to be looked at to help the problem that many people now have attending games. Not only with all the moved games but also with the rise of shift work that seems to have occured over the few years.

3. Tell the local pubs that they are only interested in chasing up landlords that broadcast the Ewood matches on foreign TV, as that is their sphere of interest. Away games aren't how they make money. Sure it may seem they can't do that but who cares? Money talks. It's in the landlords interest for Rovers to do well as that will get people in for the away games they show.

4. If the game is going to be designated as an A+ then make sure it is worth it. Chelsea at home on a Sunday when Rovers are already receiving extra Sky money isn't. Regardless if you can get into another part of the ground for £27 or not, if fans are used to sitting in the BBE or JW Upper or wherever they will probably wish to sit there again. Their friends might be there, whatever. They may well resent being priced out of their old seats, especially if they have had to give up season tickets because the demands of TV meant they can't attend more and more of the games.

Do I think Rovers have looked into all of these and I'm saying nothing new? Absolutely. Yet they need to keep doing it. Thousands have left while we are a Premiership side - it is making it more and more difficult to compete.

Edited September 14, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[thenodrog]

Jack Walker alledgedly had a sign in his office whioch said 'Think Big'. I suggest that concept is totally beyond the comprehension of many of our contributers.

[FourLaneBlue]

Jack Walker alledgedly had a sign in his office whioch said 'Think Big'. I suggest that concept is totally beyond the comprehension of many of our contributers.

Certainly not beyond me - if you wanted to think big then you would charge the same prices as Chelsea. Besides if Jack had really 'thought big' he'd have gone and bought United and left us where we were, however he was following his heart then, not just his head.