[Archived] England Games

[RovertheHill]

Well Colin, there's a lot I agree with in your post. I don't agree about the passion and commitment bit, or the not caring bit though. I remember the optimism we all had after Italia 90. It was great going into work, discussing the games, anticipating the next. We even got a team off the ground at work and persuaded the bosses to stump up for a kit! It seemed everyone was talking about football and it was exciting. Then Graham Taylor killed it by consistently picking a bunch of journeymen, having next to no clue about how to play at that level, and generally talking cr@p. If we did qualify for a tournament we never expected to get out of the group. Our expectation levels were reset and we settled for second best. I desperately don't want that to happen again - but I fear it will with McClaren. And that actually pains me. I am bothered. The players Taylor picked were not paid as much as the current crop, and were not over-rated by anyone. They were distinctly average, and it showed. They didn't lack for commitment - Geoff Thomas would run through a wall. Only problem was if you asked him to hit it with the ball he'd miss.

So I don't think it comes down to how much this lot are paid, or whether they are over-rated. I think there are managers out there who can bring together a team and make it better than the sum of the parts, by instilling them with a passion, a goal and a gameplan. Mark Hughes for one. O'Neill seems to be doing it at Villa. God forbid, even Allardyce does that. McClaren has never done that as manager, and in my opinion he never will. He just isn't made that way.

It seems to me the press has a lot to answer for, as they appear to be the reason why Scolari backed out of the England job after accepting it. The same press who were lauding McClaren after Crouch had scored against a couple of mediocre teams in meaningless games. The same press who agreed absolutely with his "ruthless" treatment of Beckham and his distaste for the WAG's, whilst ignoring the fact that all he did was speak in platitudes and sound-bites. The same press who went orgasmic over his selection of Terry as captain (which I completely disagree with but that's another story). And the same press who will absolutely crucify him when we do not qualify for this tournament. Of course, they will forget this circle of events, and most of them will insist they said it all along.

And finally, I don't think he's useless, but Lampard doesn't seem to like to share the limelight with anyone. He's been cr@p this year at Chelsea since Ballack arrived, and he's always cr@p with Gerrard. Perhaps he's intimidated. It's funny - the people who use the "Beckham is past it" argument fail to notice that all of the points they apply to Beckham equally apply to Lampard. Can't beat a man, slow, doesn't track back as well as he should etc. The only difference is Lampard is younger and Beckham takes better free-kicks.

Where's that bloody whisky...

[RevidgeBlue]

I'd rather watch Rovers in the Carling Cup beat Torquay 1-0 than watch England win a game.

Amen to that Colin, most sensible comment on this thread.

Cheer up guys, it's only England, the real football starts again at Anfield on Saturday. I did get a bit more excited pre World Cup than usual this year because we should have had a good chance of winning it with the players available. But on the whole I can't care the same way for players who I despise the rest of the year when they are turning out in a ManUre/Chelski/Liverpool/Spuds/Newcastle shirt against the mighty blue and whites.

A couple of words on McClaren: He's not my favourite but a slight sense of perspective is required. We were crap under Sven, but the fact we appear to be even worse under McClaren doesn't mean that what went before was any good.

Whither the universally renowned tactical genius "El Tel"?

McClaren should however be sacked summarily if he is preparing his way via Max Clifford for Beckham's return. He made exactly the right decision originally, Beckham is history as far as England is concerned and that's the way it should remain.

It seems to me the press has a lot to answer for, as they appear to be the reason why Scolari backed out of the England job after accepting it.

That had nothing whatsoever to do with it. It was the FA's cack handed timing of the approach.

[Fife Rover]

Thought The Sun's headline this morning was very clever...

"It's down to you misses Robinson"

That may be very clever but it is also very inacurate and very unfair. OK he did make a boo-boo for the 2nd goal, but other than that he had a good game, and IMO he was the ONLY England player that you could even think that applies to. As for the rest of them, and even allowing for the formation and tactics being wrong it was still a VERY, VERY poor performance by the all the 10 outfield players. The worst I can remember from any England team ever.

And before anyone accuses me of a hysterical over reaction; I have thought long and hard about it before coming on here to say it. I honestly cannot remember any occasion before where the entire England team has played so badly and with such a complete abscence of spirit. You can forgive them for getting beat if at least a few of them show some spirit or give an indication that they at least care, but this.........!! Words fail me.

Edited October 13, 2006 by Fife Rover

[RevidgeBlue]

That may be very clever but it is also very inacurate and very unfair. OK he did make a boo-boo for the 2nd goal, but other than that he had a good game, and IMO he was the ONLY England player that you could even think that applies to. As for the rest of them, and even allowing for the formation and tactics being wrong it was still a VERY, VERY poor performance by the all the 10 outfield players. The worst I can remember from any England team ever.

And bfore anyone accuses me of a hysterical over reaction; I have thought long and hard about it before coming on here to say it. I honestly cannot remember any occasion before where the entire England team has played so badly and with such a complete abscence of spirit. You can forgive them for getting beat if at least a few of them show some spirit or give an indication that they at least care, but this.........!! Words fail me.

I didn't think he made a boo-boo for the second Fife, the bobble was one of those things you can't legislate for and you haven't time to react. (Remember Tim Flowers down here v Liverpool?)

I thought he was badly at fault for the first though. Should have been a routine save, but he got caught hopelessly in no mans land and it looped in.

Other than that he kept us in it. Although I suppose you could argue that without either of the two alleged bloopers we'd have played badly and come away with a 0-0.

[FourLaneBlue]

Robinson was to blame for both goals.

I didn't think he made a boo-boo for the second Fife, the bobble was one of those things you can't legislate for and you haven't time to react. (Remember Tim Flowers down here v Liverpool?)

Of course you have time to legislate for it...there was nobody within ten yards so why do a whiffy airshot? The man had time to trap the ball, juggle it and telegraph it if he wished before booting it upfront. Why doesn't this happen all the time to outfield players in conditions like this? Regardless of the bobble...Robinson messed up. Simple as.

Also if you compare the Flowers howler with that of Robinson the other night you can see the difference. Flowers tried to scoop up the ball and had his body in the way but only a bizarre superbobble sent it up and over his shoulder. Robinson was too cavalier when attempting to kick it, even though he already knew the surface was poor. If at that time any opposition forward had been running in it could be understandable but the fact he had so much time and space meant he should have been far more careful...which is, after all, his job.

As for England...I haven't cared too much ever since the 2001/02 season. For the first half of that Andy Cole was a regular starter for England despite not always being in the Man Utd first XI...as soon as he came to Rovers and started scoring shedloads...Sven dropped him! All because he was playing for us. The refusal to take Matt Jansen to the World Cup by instead going for Martin Keown (eventual minutes played at that world cup = 0) merely compounded it.

Rovers V England...Rovers all the way*!

* - Especially now England really rubbish instead of just not that good

Edited October 13, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[philipl]

Just seen the replay of the match. I'm still laughing at the goals but the England performance was far worse than the press reported it to be.

This was Turnip Taylor all over again. At least Malta beat Hungary 2-1 and that was fun!!!

The only interesting question concerning England now is when McLaren gets the sack.

[RovertheHill]

Unfortunately, McClaren won't get sacked because if Rev is correct and the FA did make a mighty cock-up in the appointment then they are in no way going to heap more criticism on themselves by sacking their second choice, especially after the fuss about the appointment process. So however long his contract is, is how long we have him.

Also, sense of perspective? I don't think there is anything wrong with my sense of perspective. Before McClaren, we were a quarter final team - pretty much consistently - and along the way we beat some world class opposition. I don't call that crap. The next appointment was to take us that bit further and maybe get us to a final. This is not some bandwagon - plenty of us on here said before his appointment that McClaren was not the man to do that. We weathered the "told-you-so's" after a couple of meaningless friendly wins and now the chickens are coming home to roost. I hope we qualify but I suspect we won't and it p****s me off because we ARE better than that. As for Beckham, I did suspect he would get dropped from a starting berth, and when Lennon is fit I think that may be right. But he should not be axed from the squad and anyone who thinks Richardson, P. Neville or Jenas would make more of an impact as a sub needs their head looking at

[speeeeeeedie]

I agree with the comments on the idiotic press. I agree that England players underperform on the world stage. I agree that McClaren looks lost right now. I also wonder why Jermain Jenas gets into the England squad consistently. Is his bench warming technique the best around? He shouldn't have gone to the WC and shouldn't be playing now.

As for Robinson. If Gary Neville had passed the ball outside the line of the goal a wiff would have given them a corner. Robinson's positioning was bad, he should have asked for the ball outside of his near post. If he'd have done did this there would have been no problems. This is not an issue anymore (well it will be for a while now) but after Euro 1992 (the last tournament where keepers could pick up the ball from a back pass) coaches all over the place were worried about keepers who didn't have the skill to control a ball, so many decided to teach players that when they passed it back to so so outside the lines of the goal, hopefully negating comedy own goals. Keepers were also taught where to receive them. In the years since goalies have become more comfortable with a ball at their feet and this practice has died down.

[blue phil]

Ever since I have lost my appetite for supporting England, to be honest I just don't give a hoot any more.

Every goal that Rovers score brings a joy to my heart even if I'm listening to it being scored on radio 5 when we are playing away at Boro. I'm dancing around the house with pleasure. Every goal we concede pains me, and that's still just on the radio.

To be honest, I quite enjoy the opposition scoring against England. Ha! Ferdinand, Terry, Neville, Cole - collectively paid more in a week than I'll ever earn in my lifetime and they get skinned by a lad from the slums of Zagreb.

Makes me wonder why you're posting on this thread then ....

Money has little to do with it with the players if you're comparing their attitudes toward club and country . I'd suggest , if anything , the players are more likely to stroll around when playing for their club than their country . Ferdy , Terry , Cole , Neville playing for England put in just as much effort as Neill , Todd and our players for the "town" .

Maybe players representing England just smacks too much of patriotism for youyr liking , Col

[colin]

Makes me wonder why you're posting on this thread then ....

I'm posting on it because it is an interesting discussion about the England team. I've read and digested coments from Speeedie; Rover The Hill; Phillipl; Four Lane Blue; Revidge Rover; & Fife Rover.

Have you got a problem with that?

Post it. Or shut up.

[roverich]

Ferdinand, Terry, Neville, Cole - collectively paid more in a week than I'll ever earn in my lifetime

Have some ambition man or there's nothing left to live for! They probably deserve it more than you though I suppose

[FourLaneBlue]

How predictable. When in doubt yearn for the tried. Beckham's history as far as England is concerned and that's how it should stay.

Arsense from Arsenal disagrees with you...

Beckham right for England, says Wenger

Suggests that experience needs to be blended with youth, not too much of one or the other. I'm more in the middle as I'd rather not have him constantly back in the team and being once again undroppable but I'd certainly rather have him in the squad than Jenas. Useful as an option when crosses are needed, especially as we couldn't cross for toffee in Zagreb.

Edited October 14, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[blue phil]

Have you got a problem with that?

Post it. Or shut up.

Very aggressive , Col ! The wife not let you in bed again ..

[philipl]

Russia have won in macedonia and so have pushed England down into 3rd in the Group. Croatia are impressively winning in Israel so are opening a points and goal difference gap at the top but if Israel recover Croatia will remain top and England will be down to 4th.

The only interesting question about England is when will McLaren get fired?

I will be very surprised if the Dutch don't run is ragged later this evening.

[jim mk2]

Bring back Sven !

One of the redeeming features of Eriksson's tenure as manager is that England qualified for all the leading tournaments with relative ease. What of course he could not do is take England to the next level at the finals.

By struggling to qualify in this tournament England are merely reverting to type.

[USABlue]

Russia have won in macedonia and so have pushed England down into 3rd in the Group. Croatia are impressively winning in Israel so are opening a points and goal difference gap at the top but if Israel recover Croatia will remain top and England will be down to 4th.

The only interesting question about England is when will McLaren get fired?

I will be very surprised if the Dutch don't run is ragged later this evening.

I said it when McClaren was appointed and I'll repeat myself. Forget the Euro's we are not going to qualify. In football terms I am ashamed to be English. The FA have always been plonkers when it comes to the England manager. Do a Charlton and get rid now.

Edited November 15, 2006 by USABlue

[Alex Rover]

Andre Ooijer is the Dutch captain tonight.

[philipl]

Something has happened this evening which has never happened before in all my years of watching football.

There is a player in the England players list whom I had to look up to find out who on earth he is. Step forwards (or not) Ben Foster.

Apparently he is not even first choice for Manc reserves and got displaced at Watford when Rovers sent Richard Lee back.

And we kid ourselves England might win something one day?!?

[brfcshabba]

According to the commentator Ooijer has conceded three penalties, scored an own goal and been sent off for Blackburn.

I don't recall a sending off, nice to see the commentator getting his facts correct.

[BuckyRover]

Any excuse to have a dig at Blackburn.

Foster has played in most games for Watford this season.

[OJRovers]

yeah any excuse to put him down as he plays for Rovers.

I'm supporting Holland.

[Fife Rover]

I thought Ooijer had a decent game tonight for Holland. He did OK all night until they subbed him off for a striker to try to get the winner in the last few mins.

[rog of the rovers]

Foster to be fair has been in good form for Watford. He'll be the England number 1 one day.

As for Kieran Richardson and Shaun Wright Phillips, good to see that the inform players at a premiership level are being chosen ahead of the bigger clubs' reserve team!!!

[AxesFirstTouch]

players like Richardson and Jenas really shouldnt get anywhere near the squad.

[joey_big_nose]

As for Kieran Richardson and Shaun Wright Phillips, good to see that the inform players at a premiership level are being chosen ahead of the bigger clubs' reserve team!!!

Seconded! How can we be playing players who are not regulars for their club sides?

SWP is obvious quality but you cannot bring them in when they are out of practice.

We have a real problem so far as strikers go, I guess we can only hope for Ashton to come back and set the world alight. And Carrick needs to lose his place to, or play alongside, someone who can put his foot in and maintain the tempo. In Hargreaves absence the only real candidate is Scott Parker.