[Archived] Captain?

[Tris]

I can't understand some who are calling for Neill's head over his refusal to sign a new contract. Is it the sheer novelty of a player showing enough loyalty to a club to see out his full (and fairly lengthy) contract without once spitting the dummy and demanding a transfer? He has never refused to play any role asked of him, right across the backline, and has a positive influence on the pitch much more often than not.

As for those who would doubt his love of the club for his insulting the supporters. Well, i think it fairly obvious to anyone who cares to think for themselves that his gesture was aimed at a minority of fans who have taken it upon themselves to take the moral 'high-ground' by suggesting that Lucas is obligated to re-sign for the club when his current contract runs out, instead of either taking a better offer should one arise. I know you love the club, but it's ludicrous to suggest that one who has served the club so long and well should be singled out for derision for not staying for their full playing career.

Lucas probably realises that he is now approaching the peak of his abilities and to further improve, or to be challenging for honours on a regular basis he needs to move soon. It's not as if he has been disloyal to the club, or even been talking to other clubs as many if not most players of the modern game would have done long ago. No, he is fulfilling his obligation to the club in full.

And for that he is castigated by his own fans. It's a shame that fulfilling the obligation agreed between himself and the club is not enough for some. But when someone sulks and demands a transfer that is seen as a normal situation.

What a good post.

[BRFC New World Order]

Two wrongs don't make a right Den and Neill needs his head screwing on as well. What gives this pratt, who is probably earning in a week what many fans earn in a year, the right to run the length of the pitch to deride a section of the support? The fact he is also club captain makes the situation many times worse, but really that's not Neill's fault it's Hughes's.

I think it's a very serious issue. We are losing support in the droves already, the connection between the fans and these millionaire players (Many would say prima donnas) is already practically non existent and then the club captain starts behaving like this.

I was expecting Mark Hughes to strongly condemn his reaction whilst acknowledging the reason he did it. To casually dismiss it as a celebration that was merely a "bit over exuberent" will only serve to further drive a wedge between the club and support and create an atmosphere of "us" and "them".

I think it's pretty safe to say from the way he dealt with Sherwood and Hendry that Uncle Jack would have had Neill on his bike long ago.

If support falls to even lower levels I highly doubt it will be due to Neill. A few fans seem to hint at refusing to show but that won't have any significant impact. Most of those probably won't go through with it anyway. I'm sure the majority will be attending the next home match. There will probabaly be some amongst the support in London this weekend as well. Anger will subside I'm sure over the coming days.

Would it be fair to say that Hughes appears to be somewhat stubborn? Some of his decisions lately (not just his stance over the captaincy) seem to hint towards such traits. Whether that's good or not I guess we will find out by the end of the season.

It is worth thinking about what Jack would have made of the situation. As he's no longer here I guess it's not really going to be a main focal point of the debate.

[thenodrog]

Would it be fair to say that Hughes appears to be somewhat stubborn? Some of his decisions lately (not just his stance over the captaincy) seem to hint towards such traits. Whether that's good or not I guess we will find out by the end of the season.

The traits of being passionate and feisty is not bad in a footballer either.

[gumboots]

It's good to see that at last the sensible members of the board are standing up to be counted and, if not support Lucas Neill, at least accept that at no point has his behaviour warranted some of the vitriol aimes at him. As has been said, if we want new players we need to show them that though our support is limited in number, we are supportive of our manager and his decisions, and after all that's what this thread is about isn't it? Is Mark Hughes right to make Lucas Neill captain?

[Brownie]

I can't understand some who are calling for Neill's head over his refusal to sign a new contract. Is it the sheer novelty of a player showing enough loyalty to a club to see out his full (and fairly lengthy) contract without once spitting the dummy and demanding a transfer? He has never refused to play any role asked of him, right across the backline, and has a positive influence on the pitch much more often than not.

As for those who would doubt his love of the club for his insulting the supporters. Well, i think it fairly obvious to anyone who cares to think for themselves that his gesture was aimed at a minority of fans who have taken it upon themselves to take the moral 'high-ground' by suggesting that Lucas is obligated to re-sign for the club when his current contract runs out, instead of either taking a better offer should one arise. I know you love the club, but it's ludicrous to suggest that one who has served the club so long and well should be singled out for derision for not staying for their full playing career.

Lucas probably realises that he is now approaching the peak of his abilities and to further improve, or to be challenging for honours on a regular basis he needs to move soon. It's not as if he has been disloyal to the club, or even been talking to other clubs as many if not most players of the modern game would have done long ago. No, he is fulfilling his obligation to the club in full.

And for that he is castigated by his own fans. It's a shame that fulfilling the obligation agreed between himself and the club is not enough for some. But when someone sulks and demands a transfer that is seen as a normal situation.

Agree with Tris that this is an excellent, considered post.

What right has anyone on here or in the crowd got to castigate a true 100% honest professional of making a career move that suits his high ambitions. He knows if he doesn't play for a big club now, he never will.

Some people are so up their own backsides with their elevated opinions of others its incredible.

Let Lucas move on, thank him for his service as well as his honesty and wish him the best.

I am more dissapointed than anyone about Luca's departure, I consider him one of the most complete defenders in the Premiership, hom many others can play right along the back four ?

I only hope MH can discover another Lucas Neill for £700,000.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Brownie

[rover_groo]

Tris, very good and honest post mate.

I can see where you are coming from, but it's his outspoken agent that informed the club in August that Lucas will not be signing another contract for Rovers. But Lucas has been doing a bit of fannying about and said that this is definitely the case and should say what he would prefer i.e be sold in January or hang on and finish the job when his contract ends in June 06.

Then Hughes' doesn't have to feel oblidged to place him as captain so that it could convince him to stay. Instead it should go to either Brad, Sav, Tugay or Andre. All three are pivotal members of the squad and playing with a great deal of consistancy.

Tbh, I would stick Eddie in at Right-back as he has shown that he is capable of playing at right-back for senior team. It took him a while to settle, but got stuck in during the second half and played some great football. The lads only young and I would expect him to play at the top level in years to come. I really feel for Tony Kane who is another of Rovers recognised right-backs. He's on loan at Stockport and probably would have made his debut on Wednesday instead of Nolan.

Kane is getting good reviews whilst at County and in his 4 appearances, they have won 2 and drawn 2.

[Boz]

So in summary, is it fair to state that the majority agree?:

1. Booing your own players does not achieve anything and is wrong.

2. Whilst a player has a contract with BRFC for which we are paying, it is correct to play him subject to his performance being of the required standard.

3. Lucas on the whole has been a model professional who has made a major contribution to the Rovers and pound for pound excellent value for money. With just a couple of minor negatives which are far outweighed by the positives, concerning reported comments he has made on, the aesthetic beauty of East Lancashire, some of the females that reside there (despite the fact that his girlfriend is from Snuffy Harwood) and responding to derisory comments aimed at him by the supporters.

4. It is not ideal that the captain of the team is someone who imminently intends to leave the club.

5. Following on, Lucas should not be captain of Blackburn Rovers, but as it's MH who appoints the skipper it is he who anyone should address this issue to.

As an aside, if there is indeed little honour in the modern day game post Bosman in the position of captain and it is merely someone who tosses a coin, especially as we already have a number of leaders in the team (Friedel, Ooijer, Neill, Todd, Savage, Tugay, Reid, Nelson) perhaps it might be an idea that a different loyal supporter each week can take a turn in performing this duty!!

[RevidgeBlue]

I can't understand some who are calling for Neill's head over his refusal to sign a new contract. Is it the sheer novelty of a player showing enough loyalty to a club to see out his full (and fairly lengthy) contract without once spitting the dummy and demanding a transfer? He has never refused to play any role asked of him, right across the backline, and has a positive influence on the pitch much more often than not.

Just a couple of points there, Neill is showing no loyalty to anyone other than himself. (Which is perfectly understandable) If he was bothered about the club (no reason why he should be, it's just a job to him) he would have signed a new contract ensuring us a large fee when he did leave.

Secondly, I suspect he wasn't booed solely because he refuses to sign a new contract, I suspect it was because he is leaving AND it appears as though he hasn't been fully committed in certain games recently, Basel, United, Newcastle and Nancy being four that spring instantly to mind.

Edited December 15, 2006 by RevidgeBlue

[OscarRaven]

I've said my piece, I'm not going to repeat myself or respond to the charge of been childish. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion myself included.

Please dont go along with some sort of pathetic lynch mob / hanging party next home game. I'm sure that some of the pathetic dollopers who barrack their own player and captain will try to stir the sh1t and whip up the natives so if you want to do something worthwhile for the entire club then don't bloody well go along with them and do your best to stop it.

I think its clear the support is split on this one, I can see why. Unfortunately the situation is very unhealthy, I predict unrest in the stands, infighting amongst supporters, general decline in the atmosphere and morale of the paying support.

Neil is by no means solely responsible for this but his actions, whether right or wrong deserved or not have made the situation much worse. I fear this divide will be our undoing, unrest in the stands will inevitably spread to the pitch. The players don't face life in the fizzy pop league, especially not Lucas that’s us the fans.

So no matter the rights and wrongs of the situation the support must stay together and support the team if we are to be successful, I just don't see how this can happen in light of Lucas' decision to deride the home support especially in light of the fact it is (or was) a minority.

Edited December 15, 2006 by OscarRaven

[den]

So no matter the rights and wrongs of the situation the support must stay together and support the team if we are to be successful, I just don't see how this can happen in light of Lucas' decision to deride the home support especially in light of the fact it is (or was) a minority.

He was asking to hear the boos, from the morons who would be better off actually encouraging the team, after he'd scored the winner.

Good on yer Lucas.

[ptholt]

just copying in what i said in the nancy post on the subject of lucas as its probably more relevant here, also just a little observation of someone i have no respect for in football at all.

paste -

MH surelymade Lucas captain to show what the club thinks of him and to give him more responsibility and try and entice him to stay by showing a LOT of faith in him, this unfortunately backfired, perhaps when people started booing and bad mouthing him..... perhaps it could be said because of those people booing him he is even more determined to leave and play for a club where he may be more valued and has a greater chance to achieve something even if its via the bench....

Personally i think hes conducted himself fairly well, he stated his desire to leave quite a while ago and has done well in the games ive seen since, unlike the most pathetic captain i have ever seen at any club who tossed his dummy out the pram, refusing to play and returning to the part time league at the drop of a hat for those "big" games against inverness cally, his actions were FAR worse than Lucas who at least is still fighting for us, sure he might have a bad day at the office, but not that many on the pitch in the blue + white have had very good days this season...

[gumboots]

So in summary, is it fair to state that the majority agree?:

1. Booing your own players does not achieve anything and is wrong.

2. Whilst a player has a contract with BRFC for which we are paying, it is correct to play him subject to his performance being of the required standard.

3. Lucas on the whole has been a model professional who has made a major contribution to the Rovers and pound for pound excellent value for money. With just a couple of minor negatives which are far outweighed by the positives, concerning reported comments he has made on, the aesthetic beauty of East Lancashire, some of the females that reside there (despite the fact that his girlfriend is from Snuffy Harwood) and responding to derisory comments aimed at him by the supporters.

4. It is not ideal that the captain of the team is someone who imminently intends to leave the club.

5. Following on, Lucas should not be captain of Blackburn Rovers, but as it's MH who appoints the skipper it is he who anyone should address this issue to.

Yes

[ABBEY]

to me a capt should be someone who has a passion for his club,someone who at least wants to play for his club,someone who has respect of players and fans.

none fit our want away aussie ,why the hell is captain is beyond me..

ftr id have savage.

if this was discussed whilst id no net i apologise..

100% STILLL STAND BEHIND THIS.

[yellowsubmarine]

100% STILLL STAND BEHIND THIS.

Continue standing then.

[gumboots]

100% STILLL STAND BEHIND THIS.

Abbey didn't you on a previous page start a thread where you asked who's this board's biggest idiot and admit it was you?

[ABBEY]

i sure did but still think a capt should demand respect and have the thought ,heart and at the very least WANT to play for the club he captains. In the team ok but capt no way.

how does this make me an idiot gum?

[Ozz]

After scoring the winner V nacy, Lucas crossed the ball for Bennis equaliser yesterday. How did he play, was he booed?

[bellamy11]

Booed by the Reading fans who thought he went down a bit too easily twice early on in the first half. I didn't notice any grief from the Rovers contingent but I wasn't sat near the people making most of the noise.

Played average - no better or worse than he has done for some time. And his cross for Benni was an absolute beaut. I think people doubting his commitment on the field need to have a look at themselves.

[thenodrog]

Played average - no better or worse than he has done for some time. And his cross for Benni was an absolute beaut. I think people doubting his commitment on the field need to have a look at themselves.

According to a few on here he should be 'rotting in the reserves' whatever that means. After scoring the winner v Nancy and setting up our equaliser yesterday with a peach of a cross they must be feeling very foolish now.

(Must say I've heard it said time and again but never actually seen anybody actually rotting in the reserves. )

[Exiled_Rover]

According to a few on here he should be 'rotting in the reserves' whatever that means. After scoring the winner v Nancy and setting up our equaliser yesterday with a peach of a cross they must be feeling very foolish now.

(Must say I've heard it said time and again but never actually seen anybody actually rotting in the reserves. )

Matteo and Gray bloated in the reserves (Gray's probably only recently just come back to match fitness). I've never seen anyone rot though, agreed.

[philipl]

No Rovers player should be booed by Rovers supporters EVER.

[Gav]

i sure did but still think a capt should demand respect and have the thought ,heart and at the very least WANT to play for the club he captains. In the team ok but capt no way.

Spot on.

[pleasure]

Spot on.

you didnt think todd shouldve been captain last season either, did you ? even though his leadership and performances were outstanding. blimey, you're a hard man to please!

[Hughesy]

1st chance iv had to get on here since last week and after his goal celebration there is only one word for Lucas Neill and it Rhymes with Banker!!

Sell him on the 1st of Jan. Bye bye big head!

[BuckyRover]

1st chance iv had to get on here since last week and after his goal celebration there is only one word for Lucas Neill and it Rhymes with Banker!!

Sell him on the 1st of Jan. Bye bye big head!

Annoying.

Why don't we try and get rid of all of our best players while we are at it.