[Archived] Rovers And Bung Inquiry

[Blueboy Downunder]

very interesting article. now of course all of these people involved are gonna deny, any involvment at all. the interesting thing about the possiblility of lucas going to liverpool recently, is that it brings to the fore that "was this harrison bloke" gonna get a back hander from the scousers if lucas signed?? which if true certainly tells us and it should lucas too - that his agent was not actually working for his client, rather trying to do it so taht he might receive a substantial amount of a back hander.

no doubt that this is certainly not the end of this controversy, and i am hoping we can see more of it and that lucas sacks this buy and signs a new contract with rovers.

[Hughesy]

I think the programme was good as it helped highlight the problem and helped people become more aware of the issue in football.

A lot of last nights programme will have been edited and cut so you are guaranteed they have a hell of a lot more information about managers, players & their dodgy agents. The FA will already have all that info + lots more.

Im sure Rovers are already aware of Andy Todd’s situation and I think he will get a cold reaction in training today from the other players.

The agent involved (Harrison) needs to be banned pending further investigation. Clubs like Bolton, Chelsea & Pompey need to have a transfer block put on them until the findings have been accepted or rejected by the premier league.

Last night about 85% of the programme was about Bolton, Sam Allardyce & his son – they must be very worried! His son even received payment during a period where he was banned from dealing with Bolton. Then later denied he ever received a payment when the BBC made a call to him. Also it is now no surprise that Allardyce didn’t get the England job.

Also Chelsea must be worried following the offer made on camera of £150k over 3 years for the young lad at Boro. They already have 3 suspended points and the FA are also looking at their dealings with the young lads from Leeds.

Im sure there will be plenty of Sam Allardyce songs around the terraces now.

[G Somerset Rover]

To be fair although he has a history of wheeling and dealing, and he may yet be guilty-I don't think Harry did alot wrong to be honest. If an agent mentions a player that you like of course you're going to say the things that harry said. It's hardly like he said "Yeah when can you get him to slap in a transfer request?". To be fair Rovers should only be concerned with that n***head Harrison who Lucas and Toddy need to kick into touch asap.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Somerset Rover!

[Ricky]

Harry didn't do anything wrong in my eyes. I'm sure it's no different than him saying "I like him as a player" whilst commentating on a match. I'm sure that I've heard managers on Sky before saying that they like a certain player, or think he's a good player etc.

I'm sure something like that can't be against the rules.

[FourLaneBlue]

It should also be remembered that it was Neill's agent that came out to the press and told all and sundry that Lucas would not be signing another contract. It would be in his interest to push for a transfer so maybe Lucas is more open to the idea of staying at Rovers than his agent has implied.

Everybody in the game knows it goes on but the FA and the Premier League prefer everything to be hushed up and hate the idea of any outside interference in their affairs. They are closed and have been related to Square Mile instutions in the early eighties before they were forced to open up their affairs to more outside scrutiny.

It's a shame the program didn't dig up more as most will now just be swept under the carpet, as per usual.

Is football corrupt? Of course. Does anyone care? Not really, they just want their team to have the best players.

[G Somerset Rover]

Pitty this Mascherano and Tevez deal didn't happen a few months earlier!

[FourLaneBlue]

might get a mention

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1174833,00.html

This has come up before but it still leaves me perplexed...why do Rovers have to get an agent to try to get rid of some players, such as Hignett? Why can't Rovers themselves see if anyone else is interested in players they are trying to offload? Instead the transfer involved paying Jon Holmes at the SFX agency and then the guy Rovers turned to, Monaco-based Mike Morris, wanted a £75,000 cut too. Why are Rovers paying out so much for what seems such a straight-forward transfer. Unknowns from abroad I can just about understand but getting rid of Hignett to his former manager Dave Bassett...why does that require the involvement of (plural here as well, not singular) agents?

It's not as if Hignett was an unknown quantity in the English game.

[thenodrog]

Much ado about nothing. In fact laughable in it's amateurism. Sam and Arry have hardly been nailed to the mast and both seem innocent of all charges that this poor documentary offered up. Gartside was simply trying to do a good bit of business for Bolton, the Liverpool connection was laughable with the only dodgy stuff being Chelsea's offer for the 15 year old and thats hardly unexpected is it? Funny how that has attracted so little attention compared to Sam n' Arry.

Mighty poor showing from the beeb. If they have any more evidence then the FA have done right to call their bluff by asking for it. Shame that it was so poorly done cos I'm sure that there have been many many 'irregular' deals done since the Prem was formed and I suspect some of the 3rd world agents are the most corrupt.

[pleasure]

harrison, gartside, fat sam and his son have been unbelievably stupid, greed got the better of them.

let's not kid ourselves, there'll be plenty more managers that accept bungs than were shown last night, but

the difference between them and fat sam is :- they are brighter, more careful and only deal with the people they know and ,in many cases, get third partes to hand- over the money.

all in all, i was disappointed with the programme. it promised far more than it delivered.

harry has become far more wary about who he deals with, following previous allegations.

much more is documented and i'd recommend reading- Broken Dreams: Vanity, Greed and the Souring of British Football, by renowned author- tom bower. it's a fascinating account of bungs and illegal payments and pulls no punches.

todd and neill havent done anything wrong. they're not too blame for their agent trying to prostitute them.

their performances last season prove their professionalism.

also, why were some team names bleeped out ? (one was obviously chelski).

[AggyBlue]

Mighty poor showing from the beeb. If they have any more evidence then the FA have done right to call their bluff by asking for it. Shame that it was so poorly done cos I'm sure that there have been many many 'irregular' deals done since the Prem was formed and I suspect some of the 3rd world agents are the most corrupt.

On the BBC news later that evening it was stated the investigation found that eighteen premiership managers past and present had accepted bungs.

[Paul]

Is football corrupt? Of course. Does anyone care? Not really, they just want their team to have the best players.

IF the game is corrupt, and Panorama was very, very poor, we should all care simply because if anyone who can influence events on the pitch is corrupt in one manner - taking bungs for example - what is there to say he wouldn't be prepared to influence the outcome of a game?

[Biddy]

On the BBC news later that evening it was stated the investigation found that eighteen premiership managers past and present had accepted bungs.

They probably have, unfortunately the BBC investigation could find any actual proof. All comments were from the agents saying they have dealt with managers before but they can and are just claiming this was bragging as they wanted to find out what Knut was up to. Very clever by the agents involved I think.

I couldn't even see what the BBC really had on the Chelsea guy. Yes he mentioned that he would give the kid £150,000 over 3 years but he never made that a firm offer and asked to speak to the kid. That's like me saying I'd only pay Amoruso £10 and his bus fair home given the chance. As mentioned above, the Liverpool link was laughable.

The Harry segment should also have been left out but I guess they realised they had no content and needed to fill time.

IF the game is corrupt, and Panorama was very, very poor, we should all care simply because if anyone who can influence events on the pitch is corrupt in one manner - taking bungs for example - what is there to say he wouldn't be prepared to influence the outcome of a game?

Apart from that aspect, I'm with Mike Newell in the comments that these back hands and incentives are all coming from one source, our wallets. That is possibly the worst aspect of all of this and we wonder why ticket prices are going up.

[FourLaneBlue]

IF the game is corrupt, and Panorama was very, very poor, we should all care simply because if anyone who can influence events on the pitch is corrupt in one manner - taking bungs for example - what is there to say he wouldn't be prepared to influence the outcome of a game?

There has been far more evidence published previously than was brought up on last night's program yet very little was actually done about it. The only reason this program made headlines was because it was hyped up as a BBC primetime broadcast, yet it was something a limp wristed affair...maybe they couldn't show much of their evidence? Craig Allardyce brought up his solicitor pdq during that phone call, I expect others would have done so too. Either that or it was a truly abysmal waste of a documentary.

It's pretty obvious that there is some corruption in the game and bungs get paid, everyone knows it goes on...it would be worrying if it was widespread. Yet there has been little desire by the FA or the Premier League to appoint any individual or task force that has powers to actually go in and do something about it. So it is very difficult to get any proof whatsover. Often the proof comes from outside the country, George Graham's downfall was brought about because of a Danish journalist rather than anything the FA did.

Part of the new Labour government's manifesto mentioned the wish to clean up football and to appoint an outside regulator to govern football...but once it got bogged down in the Wembley fiasco under Ken Bates and the even bigger fiasco of the 2006 World Cup bid they kind of gave up.

Will this lead to an indepndent body with the power to actually examine how much money is going out of the game and where to? Wouldn't bet on it.

Edited September 20, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[DP]

This has come up before but it still leaves me perplexed...why do Rovers have to get an agent to try to get rid of some players, such as Hignett? Why can't Rovers themselves see if anyone else is interested in players they are trying to offload? Instead the transfer involved paying Jon Holmes at the SFX agency and then the guy Rovers turned to, Monaco-based Mike Morris, wanted a £75,000 cut too. Why are Rovers paying out so much for what seems such a straight-forward transfer. Unknowns from abroad I can just about understand but getting rid of Hignett to his former manager Dave Bassett...why does that require the involvement of (plural here as well, not singular) agents?

It's not as if Hignett was an unknown quantity in the English game.

Unfortunately, as in most transactions these days, there is a broker or agent involved. Wouldn't it be refreshing if we could buy or sell a house without the need of an Estate Agent?

Players also seem to like having agents to "help out" with the financial matters. Don't forget they'll be getting a much bigger cut these days compared to the past when a player requesting a transfer got bugger all of the fee.

At the time I imagine Hignett still had a while on his contract to go and Rovers wanted rid. This put all the power with the agent.

[Blueheart]

No smoke without fire .

If Ali dice is as innocent as he makes out, then why is he not pressing his solicitor to commence proceedings for slander against the Beeb ?

[Biddy]

No smoke without fire .

If Ali dice is as innocent as he makes out, then why is he not pressing his solicitor to commence proceedings for slander against the Beeb ?

Well he was at a game last night whilst the program was on TV and in a statement that they played on the radio news this morning he said he would watch the program today before deciding what to do. He did say that he would fight if they made any false claims against him.

[DanLad]

No smoke without fire .

If Ali dice is as innocent as he makes out, then why is he not pressing his solicitor to commence proceedings for slander against the Beeb ?

Who says he's not? I'd suspect that his solicitors are looking at this right now.

[gazsimm]

If fat Sam has been a naughty boy what will happen to him?

[RovertheHill]

Regardless of whether the programme last night actually proved anything or not, clearly there is a problem in football with people taking bungs. It doesn't make it right, but you can at least see that a scout who earns in a year what a player earns in a week could have his head turned by the offer of a back-hander. What is deplorable is millionaire managers, who are on extremely good salaries and bonuses, taking illegal payments FOR DOING THEIR JOBS, and then complaining about the power of players and the fact that their clubs cannot compete financially. Their noses are so far in the trough that they cannot see that they are contributing to killing the game. Because at the end of the day, that money comes from fans. Either directly through the gate, or indirectly through Sky subs and/or buying products that contribute to ad revenues. At some point, fans will vote with their pockets. I think we are seeing some of it now with Rovers gates - not because of Rovers per se, but because of a general disillusionment with football. Possibly why Accy and FC Utd get such a lot of attention - 10 years ago they'd have been lucky to get blokes walking their dogs watching.

Moan over

[3recurring]

Allardyce attacks BBC 'lies'

[1864roverite]

well folks the legal view is pretty simple.

Panorama have not shown everything that has been recorded on tape, they cant have otherwise they would jeopordise the whole investigation, and if anyone believes there is just a 60 minute programme to go off in the enquiry they are mistaken.

The whole corrupt business of receiving "bungs" is akin to money laundering under POCA not to mention tax evasion. So I think there will be more interest than that of an FA/Premier League enquiry. HMR and C wil almost certainly now have their beady eyes all over the persons named in that enquiry.

Gartside and Bolton do not paint a pretty picture, Harry Redknapp clearly has some serious questions to answer and BFS seems to be out on a limb courtesy of his idiotic son who clearly came across as flash big know it all when really he is a classic example of a cling on.

I see a few more squirming managers coming out of the woodwork now to get their oar in before it hits the headlines, enter Souness......

A big surprise is the involvement of Liverpool, and I am not surprised that Chelsea were involved in manipulation of the youngster from Middlesboro.

Bring it on..... I cant wait to see the final outcome

[Hasta]

Panorama have not shown everything that has been recorded on tape, they cant have otherwise they would jeopordise the whole investigation, and if anyone believes there is just a 60 minute programme to go off in the enquiry they are mistaken.

BBC have spent 12 months undercover looking into this. Are you actually saying that last nights programme was all they could show legally (i.e no evidence at all) and that all the film they have of managers and club officials taking the brown envelopes is not being shown so that it can secretly be given to the FA.

If they had it, they'd have shown it.

[Welshrover1981]

It was the worst piece of investigative journalism I have ever seen. How the BBC bosses thought this would make conclusive evidence is beyond me. Shouldnt have been shown and scrapped.

It didnt prove a thing, just all talk and no action.

How on earth can Chelski be deducted points for their man just saying yeah he is a good player, we could give him this this and this and he can play here there and everywhere. How is that 'tapping up', Don't you have to be talking tothe player and actually agreeing some terms, and exchanging some money? All he did was talk about the player in a general conversation. Look at the Cole incident, exclusive meetings with Mr Kenyon in a restaurant all hush hush, until a journalist spotted them.

It was like seeing one of the managers on Match of the Day 2 talking about the post match analysis and saying he is a good player and would love to see the player in his squad.

Even the so called evience for Craig and Sam was laughable and if I was Fat Sam I would take the BEEB all the way cause all they had was talk, no money exchange what so ever.

How can the FA charge them for that.

And Arry, well as much as we would loved Toddy to leave the whinger, all he said was that he is a player which he would like in his squad. Well he must be desperate!!!!

OK it highlights the problem of Agents but doesn't give any inclanation or evidence of managers taking bungs.

At least with Graham we actually saw money exchanged for players.

I really can not see how the BBC's findings can have any bearing on the report which is being produced. If I was that person I would say no thanks and get lost, and get me some evidence.

[Laurence]

Wouldn't it be refreshing if we could buy or sell a house without the need of an Estate Agent?

You already can, they are completely unnecessary - you can do the whole thing if you can do your own conveyancing, otherwise you just need a solicitor.

As for the BBC - very poor, threw a lot of mud at fat sam, some of it will probably stick, but otherwise they proved nowt.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Laurence

[Welshrover1981]

well folks the legal view is pretty simple.

Panorama have not shown everything that has been recorded on tape, they cant have otherwise they would jeopordise the whole investigation, and if anyone believes there is just a 60 minute programme to go off in the enquiry they are mistaken.

The whole corrupt business of receiving "bungs" is akin to money laundering under POCA not to mention tax evasion. So I think there will be more interest than that of an FA/Premier League enquiry. HMR and C wil almost certainly now have their beady eyes all over the persons named in that enquiry.

Gartside and Bolton do not paint a pretty picture, Harry Redknapp clearly has some serious questions to answer and BFS seems to be out on a limb courtesy of his idiotic son who clearly came across as flash big know it all when really he is a classic example of a cling on.

I see a few more squirming managers coming out of the woodwork now to get their oar in before it hits the headlines, enter Souness......

A big surprise is the involvement of Liverpool, and I am not surprised that Chelsea were involved in manipulation of the youngster from Middlesboro.

Bring it on..... I cant wait to see the final outcome

Then why didnt the BBC say, well we have alot more evidence which shows money being exchanged for certain players and that we can not show it for legal reasons.

If they had the conclusive evidence they would have shown it, or at least postponed the programme until the report had been released, and the suspected persons have had a fair trial and charged, fined banned or whatever?