[Archived] Rovers 2-1 Wigan

[Fife Rover]

He went into graphic detail didn't he. Made me feel queasy eating my HT pie!

Did you notice that he said he thought Christmas was being optimistic, but something to aim for

As a further thought on our last contact Burleyblue, are you SURE you are not a Dingle? Your avatar looks like I imagine a real Dingle would look; a sleazy, evil looking little purple person, just the colour you get when you mix claret and blue on a pallett.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Fife Rover

[Flopsy]

Exactly! And did you see the the sycophantic fools on Sky TV this weekend literally drooling over what they were calling "the goal of the season already" I refer to the very good goal scored by Van Persie for Arsenal, but which for me was not as good as Bentley's goal against Salzburg, and this never even got a mention!

Van Persie hit a volley whilst jumping in the air, from just inside the box. (al DiCanio a couple of years ago)

Bentley cushioned a ball on his chest and took a great shot

Id go for VanPersie's goal, but he should have been sent off earlier for a stamp on Hasslebank

[92er]

Not my understanding of the rule den - I thought the rule was that if the ball was played forward there had to be two opposition players e.g. keeper + one defender between our player and the bye line for it to be onside. Whether McCarthy was behind the ball or not is irrelevant if that's the correct interpretation.

I might be wrong, perhaps some rules boffin could clarify!

The rule certainly used to be that as long as you played the ball backwards, rather than forwards, the other player would not be offside despite there being no player of the other side between the attacking player and the goals.

[stuwilky]

Not my understanding of the rule den - I thought the rule was that if the ball was played forward there had to be two opposition players e.g. keeper + one defender between our player and the bye line for it to be onside. Whether McCarthy was behind the ball or not is irrelevant if that's the correct interpretation.

I might be wrong, perhaps some rules boffin could clarify!

If the receiving player is behind the ball when it is played, he cannot be offside.

Equally, as you seem to imply, if the ball is played backward there is no offside.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just clarifying a point- It doesn't have to be the goalkeeper and a defender, it can be two defenders. If you run onto a ball that's played backwards you can't be offside, having said that I've lost count of the times I've seen a striker run in on a lone goalie and play the ball forward to an unmarked teammate who puts it in an empty net and the goal is given!

To the guy who criticised my comments and asked if I actually attended Sundays game - the two best players to put on a Rovers shirt in my life time conducted the half time draw, did you ever see them play ?????

[LeChuck]

McCarthy was offside because, under the 'new' definition of the offside law, the point at which he put the ball in the net would still be considered the same phase of play in which he was offside.

Having said that, I don't actually care, we have our fair share of bad luck so we deserve the odd break. No doubt people on here will forget this slice of fortune next time we're hard done to though.

[stuwilky]

McCarthy was offside because, under the 'new' definition of the offside law, the point at which he put the ball in the net would still be considered the same phase of play in which he was offside.

Out of interest Chuch, why do you say that?

[LeChuck]

To stop that argument created by Van Nistelrooy of standing offside then tapping the ball home ten seconds later the FA introdced a guideline suggesting 'phases' of play. Although McCarthy wasn't doing it intentionally, I'm sure his goal fits quite snuggly into it.

[Eddie]

McCarthy was offside because, under the 'new' definition of the offside law, the point at which he put the ball in the net would still be considered the same phase of play in which he was offside.

Having said that, I don't actually care, we have our fair share of bad luck so we deserve the odd break. No doubt people on here will forget this slice of fortune next time we're hard done to though.

The difference is that, even if you are right, that the issue is still not clear, even after much debate and thought, while a lot happened between him being offside near the halfway line and scoring (Roberts could have quite easily tapped it in himself). On the other hand, decisions that have gone against us like the penalty at Sheffield United or the clear offside against Liverpool last year are obvious. McCarthy was also called offside several times during the game when he wasn't, so was Jeffers.

[stuwilky]

To stop that argument created by Van Nistelrooy of standing offside then tapping the ball home ten seconds later the FA introdced a guideline suggesting 'phases' of play. Although McCarthy wasn't doing it intentionally, I'm sure his goal fits quite snuggly into it.

I hadnt viewed it that way.

I viewed it as a different phase of play once other players got involved.

But then again, I am perhaps slightly biased, and given the confusion around this stupid thing now even amongst officials, how are we supposed to work it out!

[Eddie]

FIFA have some diagrams on their website and while none fit this exact description it does have one that shows a player being offside when the first pass is made to another player who is onside who then passes to the player who was initially offside but at the time of the second pass is onside, the laws of the game state that no player should be called offside during this sort of move. For me McCarthy was fine when Roberts made the pass, the only question is whether or not the officials considered him to be active for the long ball that was initially played, I don't doubt that he was, but we got a bit lucky.

[LeChuck]

Edde I agree that it's absolutely not clear, I'm not denying that, the offside law is a shambles. It should be returned to the old 'if you're offside you're offside' law, everyone would know where they stand (literally).

With there only being one pass seperating McCarthy's offside position and him putting the ball in the back of the net, however, I'm certain it should still be considered the same phase of play. I think the close proximity within which both McCarthy and Robert were positioned at the time of McCarthy being offside also contributes towards it.

In a strange way it feels nice to have won with a slightly dodgy goal, although I'm not too sure why.

Edited October 2, 2006 by LeChuck

[Eddie]

Feel bad for Wigan, second year in a row that we have taken points from them with a dodgy goal.

[Fife Rover]

Is there a referee in the house? We could just do with a genuinely qualified ref (any class) to help us with this one; any volunteers?

[LeChuck]

About the lowest form of name dropping you'll get here Fife, but my Dad's qualified to the level below Unibond, although I don't know what that is (roughly wherever FC United find themselves nowadays). Anyway, that's the reason I've been using these definitons, I don't have an unhealthy obsession with the tedious side of the game or anything, it just happens to get thrust at me around the dinner table and such like. I could have a slightly scewed version of it in truth as, as you can imagine, I don't really pay a lot of attention, so don't take it as gospel just yet.

Edited October 2, 2006 by LeChuck

[Drakefyre]

I am a USSF certified referee, and the goal is onside by our interpretation, although I don't know about any FA-implemented "clarifications" that would take precedence (like "phases of play").

[den]

FIFA have some diagrams on their website and while none fit this exact description it does have one that shows a player being offside when the first pass is made to another player who is onside who then passes to the player who was initially offside but at the time of the second pass is onside, the laws of the game state that no player should be called offside during this sort of move. For me McCarthy was fine when Roberts made the pass, the only question is whether or not the officials considered him to be active for the long ball that was initially played, I don't doubt that he was, but we got a bit lucky.

I'll make my original point again. THIS YEAR the linesmen are being told not to put their flag up, until the player in an offside position TOUCHES the ball. So Benni wasn't flagged for the long ball through the middle. Nor was he offside when Roberts played it to him, because as Stuwilky says, you can't be offside when you are behind the ball.

I think the confusion about not being offside when the ball is passed backwards, is just an illustration because if it is passed backwards, the player must have been behind the ball. If you are behind the ball, you can't be offside.

[den]

Found this:

FIFA laws of the game

"Law 11 - Offside

Offside position

It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:

* he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent "

[Shaddy]

Found this:

FIFA laws of the game

"Law 11 - Offside

Offside position

It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:

* he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent "

Brilliant den

[BRFC4EVA]

Great news the goal is offside. Wigan get on my bloody nerves sometimes

[Manchester Blue]

Found this:

FIFA laws of the game

"Law 11 - Offside

Offside position

It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:

* he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent "

Anyone remember what should have been 5-2 to us in the play off 2nd leg at home? That was a perfect example of a goal being wrongly disallowed because a player was deemed offside even though he was behind the ball when it was played. As long as i've played the game and watched for that matter the rule has been as Den says that you cannot be offiside if you are behind the ball regardless of numbers of defenders.

[stuwilky]

Is there a referee in the house? We could just do with a genuinely qualified ref (any class) to help us with this one; any volunteers?

*raises hand* :ph34r:

[Rovermatt]

Van Persie hit a volley whilst jumping in the air, from just inside the box. (al DiCanio a couple of years ago)

Bentley cushioned a ball on his chest and took a great shot

I remember Asprilla scored a similar type of goal for Newcastle a couple of years back in UEFA Cup. It was against Metz I think.

Anyway, Bentley's goal was brilliant but Van Persie's was absolutely amazing.

[thenodrog]

Anyone remember what should have been 5-2 to us in the play off 2nd leg at home? That was a perfect example of a goal being wrongly disallowed because a player was deemed offside even though he was behind the ball when it was played.

Yet another case for video evidence. But for Moran's goal how costly could that have proved to the club? Prem history could 've been dramatically altered too.

[Neil Weaver]

Anyone remember what should have been 5-2 to us in the play off 2nd leg at home? That was a perfect example of a goal being wrongly disallowed because a player was deemed offside even though he was behind the ball when it was played.

Aye, remember it fairly well, I was in the BE Enclosure so pretty much level with it, and now sit in much the same place so level with the 'incident' on Sunday. Never crossed my mind that either was off cos as folk have said McCarthy was behind the ball (and Roberts as well). That linesman was iffy though - gave Jeffers off when he was well on, then didn't flag when he was a couple of yards off IMHO.