[Archived] Benni Mccarthy - Gone

[LeChuck]

USA you mentioned team spirit. I once played with a lad who was the laziest barsteward ever. He rarely trained, never ran much on the pitch, but won us more games with his goals than the rest of us combined. As a team we took his limitations and lived with them, our team spirit was fantastic; maybe Rovers' players think the same?

Every time Mark Hughes has spoken about Benni he's said that he's a very popular member of the squad, he's also said he's an excellent trainer.

I'm sure the players know his worth to the team and why he doesn't waste his energy chasing things, he wouldn't be a 20 goal a season striker if he did.

[philipl]

I think speeedie has made some excellent points.

I find Benni one of the most likeable personalities in modern football- the guy just tells it as he sees it in a very engaging way (even when he wanted to jump ship) and no doubt if that impression is true to life it explains why he is so popular with the players.

Will be interesting to see how Roque and Benni click on Thursday. I think they have the potential to be the best Rovers forward partnership since the SAS (and we know those two didn't get on) and I think it is only a matter of time before they combine to give some unfortunate defence an absolute thrashing.

Incidentally, Derbs would have got no change whatsoever out of Chelsea on Saturday. Roque is probably just about as quick as Matty and the only runs he got with the ball were on the touchline.

[MCMC1875]

*EDITED*

Edited September 17, 2007 by MCMC1875

[Eddie]

Actually I suspect that's to do with differing expectations. Defenders are expected to be rocks at the back, not scurry around after lost balls which someone useless like Dickov did (and which talented strikers are therefore supposed to do and thereby knacker themselves for the chances they do get).

And Samba has not yet done anything to provoke frustration. When people are frustrated with players, they go to stereotypes, and as they can't use the label they want, they use a euphemism. I also suspect that the same people who called the above players for being lazy conveniently ignore Samba's colour- or at least they will do until he does something to annoy him.

I'd liken it to Andy Murray (or any other Scottish sporting hero)

British when he's doing well

Scottish when he's not.

Come off it. This has nothing to do with colour or where the players are from. People pick particular players who they then very easily become critical of after a bad game (Emerton and even Bentley being a prime example in previous seasons). Benni isn't overly popular because of what he has said and how he has acted, whilst the fact that he doesn't run around like a headless chicken leads to people saying that his lack of "effort" is a result of the fact that he doesn't want to be here. I'm not saying that he deserves all of the flack he gets, I'm one of his biggest fans, but to say it is because of a colour stereotype is a pretty lazy and easy analysis that just insults the people making the statements.

As for the Scottish thing, maybe if sportsman like Andy Murray didn't put in so much effort making sure everyone is aware that they are Scottish and not English then the whole of the British Isles would be a bit more supportive.

[otto man]

Not really. And I stand by it. In my defence I cite:

Cole

Yorke

Roberts

Nonda

McCarthy

Who've all been tarred on here by the same brush.

Oh the irony of that quote!

People like you are deluded, because you see racism or discrimination where there is none

[LeChuck]

Cole

Yorke

Roberts

Nonda

McCarthy

Who've all been tarred on here by the same brush.

Bloody hell Jan. The only person on here who's taking skin colour into consideration is yourself.

All those players have been tarred with different brushes. No-one has ever accused Roberts of being lazy. Nonda was never accused of it either, he was just accused of being plain useless. Yorke was accused of a bit of both, and being happy to take the money. McCarthy is being accused of having his head elsewhere. Cole didn't receive much criticism, but laziness was thrown his way a few times. All justifiable accusations in truth.

The only reason you're grouping those players together is because of their skin colour. I'm sure if Jeffers was black you would have added him to that list as well. And Matteo. And Dino Baggio. And Grabbi.

[USABlue]

Not really. And I stand by it. In my defence I cite:

Cole

Yorke

Roberts

Nonda

McCarthy

Who've all been tarred on here by the same brush.

Peacock

Neill

Gresko

Grabbi

Davies

Ward

Ostenstadt

Douglas

And a Bzillion others

All white and tarred by the same brush. Fact is the people you bring up, with the exception of Roberts all had a tendency to take it easy. However, Andy hands on hips Cole looks like a Bonafide workhorse compared to benni at times.

[gumboots]

I was really annoyed at the hugging between McCarthy and Jose at the start of the match. I thought it was totally inappropriate from both of them and would expect Mark Hughes to have a strong word in McCarthy's ear. I don't care how much they like one another, get on or anything else, you do not start a game hugging the opposition manager.

[MCMC1875]

Blimey! Lay off him, the lot of you.

It's only mid September. Even in any championship winning side it's rare that all eleven play well, week in, week out.

Creative players can win games with a single piece of flair. Fans have always overlooked this. Even in our 94/95 side, Wilcox (and even Atkins) had numerous detractors at Ewood every match (and not just on the Riverside). Before that Brotherston used to get it in the neck.

That's football fans for you, tremendous manager, improving squad, great result, unbeaten in 15 games, great season ahead and still some are not satisfied..........nothing changes.

[Jan]

OK then

On Dwight Yorke

Billy Castell

Champions League

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From: Exmouth, Devon

Member No.: 2,227

It's a shame we had to pay the lazy tw_t off, but at least he is out of the way. I hope he f_cks off to Qatar or somewhere and fails again. I hope the CSA have heard this news !.

And the equally beautiful

grizfoot

Uefa Cup

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From: Darwen

Member No.: 1,680

Well Bye Dwight

You money-grapping-good-for-nothin-little-dirt-bag

(Please don't use that word again) waste of Club money

You will only be rememebred for your cheeky penalty against West Brom and i don't think that was worth £5.2 million

This post has been edited by Alan75: May 18 2004, 21:16

On Cole

waggy

His Majesty

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From: rishton

Member No.: 206

the sooner cole goes the better,hoe it took souness 88mins before he brought gally on was a disgrace,all cole does at ewood is line his pockets and halts better prospects progress,see ya andy

and this one

USA Blue

World Cup

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QUOTE (NEARREY @ Jul 14 2004, 08:47 )

I feel the decision is ultimately right, people get all messed up by Cole's upturn in effort in the last half dozen games and suddenly he's a crowd favourite. Up til then he was getting (justifiably) a lot of stick from the crowd (and this messageboard).

That's about the most accurate statement I have seen on the Cole issue. It seemed like for a season and three quarters everyone wants shut of Mr Offside, hands on hips, won't chase, can't hit a barn door Cole, then he has a couple of games where he breaks a sweat and people think he's great. If he goes great, if he stays not as great.

For the Souness out bandwagon, does the report not say a decision was made at a board meeting, Cole has clearly taken the huff and his ego is bigger than the boss'. So sod off. It's a TEAM game. It's Blackburn Rovers, not Cole's Rovers. The man felt threatened by Dickov what a pussy, he was afraid of having his lack of effort shown for all the world to see.

This post was so big I had to split it

[Jan]

Nonda

cn_barlow

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it could easily be 6 or 7 by the end of this one.

Nonda just looks like he cant be bothered and doesn't really want to be there!

Bentley is playing well though

Anti Euro Smiths...

Anti Euro Smiths Fan

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Member No.: 22

QUOTE(RevidgeBlue @ Dec 24 2006, 00:00 )

Todd and Ooijer were both awful today.

Agreed. I was embarrassed by some of the hopeless defending on show at the Emirates yesterday.

Philipl would make a good spin doctor. We're just one point above the relegation zone, our defending has been shambolic for much of the season (we've conceded more goals in the Premiership than any team apart from Charlton), and Philip appears to suggest that everything in the garden is rosy apart from some refereeing decisions going against us.

At the start of the season Jason Roberts ridiculously claimed that Rovers could qualify for the Champions League this season. I think some of the players (and indeed the fans) need a reality check. Having finished 6th last season, we're now firmly involved in a relegation dogfight at the bottom end of the table.

A number of factors have played a part in the hugely disappointing results this season - the shambolic defending I've previously mentioned together with a chronic lack of pace throughout the side, tactical naivety, an over-reliance on Tugay to provide any semblance of creativity in midfield, players who are unable to cross the ball properly on a consistent basis and two strikers in McCarthy and Nonda who've performed like bone-idle wasters on a number of occasions this season. (McCarthy was of course missing yesterday while Nonda admittedly had one of his better games.)

All mentioning lazy or the equivalent.

[DP]

I was at the game and thought McCarthy played terrible, worst game I've seen him play. Terry had him in his pocket. He was still trying though, and saw enough of the ball. Was clearly frustrated as well as he kept messing things up.

[ihateburnley]

Right Jan, that was a complete waste of time.

My issue with you is that you have very clearly insinuated that some members of this board have racially tarred Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Jason Roberts, Shabani Nonda and Benni McCarthy with the lazy tag. That is complete and utter b******s and myself and others are offended that you have accused us of this.

There was no need to quote the above. I can remember the 'lazy' accusations myself, particularly with Yorke and Cole (I think I even contributed to the Cole-bashing). However, to say this was based on the colour of his skin is unforgiveable. I demand an apology.

[Eddie]

However, Andy hands on hips Cole looks like a Bonafide workhorse compared to benni at times.

Who cares? The man scores goals, tons of them. That is the point of football. We will not get any bonus points because of the fact that our striker covered x number of miles in the game. He is obviously doing something well, damn well. He finished second top goalscorer in his first season in the premiership (has that ever been done before?), he's won a UEFA Cup, Champions League amongst other things. If one of your essential criteria for a striker is really to cover tons of pointless ground then I suggest you watch football at a lower level. If Benni played for any other team we would be amazingly jealous and wonder how a player of his quality had been bought for so little. Even if United or Chelsea had brought him in for tons we would still admire him as a footballer, but because he plays for us and doesn't do everything as perfectly as you might want you have to bring up a particular part of his game whenever he has an off day (or simply doesn't score).

Most of you are blind to the runs and tracking back that he does. I've often been impressed by the amount of work he has put in only to come on here and see the boring old rubbish thrown out about him. If Derbyshire, Dunn or Santa Cruz put in a mile it is worshiped from every area, I think Benni would have to sprint for 90 minutes in order to get some of you to really appreciate it. If he were really doing something wrong I think someone like Mark Hughes would probably point it out, afterall he knows a thing or two about playing up front. He seems to think Benni is a pretty good player, so do the rest of the team, the rest of the league, the other managers and the other fans.

[OhmiBRFC]

cant belive I've just read that

No-one has given them stick for the colour of thier skin, thats just laughable

[grizfoot]

Right Jan, that was a complete waste of time.

My issue with you is that you have very clearly insinuated that some members of this board have racially tarred Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Jason Roberts, Shabani Nonda and Benni McCarthy with the lazy tag. That is complete and utter b******s and myself and others are offended that you have accused us of this.

There was no need to quote the above. I can remember the 'lazy' accusations myself, particularly with Yorke and Cole (I think I even contributed to the Cole-bashing). However, to say this was based on the colour of his skin is unforgiveable. I demand an apology.

I 100% agree with you there.

None of the messages you have quoted are in anyway racially they are merely commenting on the players. MGP as come in for as much stick as any of the players you've mentioned, but because he's not black I guess that doesn't count.

It's political correctness gone crazy.

[Jan]

Right Jan, that was a complete waste of time.

My issue with you is that you have very clearly insinuated that some members of this board have racially tarred Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Jason Roberts, Shabani Nonda and Benni McCarthy with the lazy tag. That is complete and utter b******s and myself and others are offended that you have accused us of this.

There was no need to quote the above. I can remember the 'lazy' accusations myself, particularly with Yorke and Cole (I think I even contributed to the Cole-bashing). However, to say this was based on the colour of his skin is unforgiveable. I demand an apology.

Well, you'll never get one. Andy Cole and Benni McCarthy are two of the top 5 strikers to grace Rovers in the time since I've been watching them, which is since 1991. Both of them took/are taking more stick than was ever aimed at Paul Dickov, or Ashley Ward, or Graham Fenton or any of the other useless journeyman strikers that have "graced" rovers since. The fact that ALL of them were called lazy, whereas the white strikers were called other things- all different, but ALL at least called "hard-working" is what makes me know that it was simply a euphemism.

Edited September 17, 2007 by Jan

[bellamy11]

But those strikers WERE hard-working. It didn't make them particularly good. You can't really say that Cole or McCarthy were work horses, but I'd still take them over the likes of Dickov any day of the week. I really don't see the point you're trying to make. People from Blackburn don't like black strikers? It's as deluded as you believing the people who criticise David Dunn MUST be jealous that he is a local boy done good.

[ihateburnley]

Well, you'll never get one. Andy Cole and Benni McCarthy are two of the top 5 strikers to grace Rovers in the time since I've been watching them, which is since 1991. Both of them took/are taking more stick than was ever aimed at Paul Dickov, or Ashley Ward, or Graham Fenton or any of the other useless journeyman strikers that have "graced" rovers since. The fact that ALL of them were called lazy, whereas the white strikers were called other things- all different, but ALL at least called "hard-working" is what makes me know that it was simply a euphemism.

That's because Paul Dickov and Ashley Ward WERE hardworking! And I think you're overexaggerating the 'stick' that Benni McCarthy is getting. We still sing his name at every match, and he is still idolised in general by the Rovers support. However, it only takes so many performances of a seemingly 'lazy' nature and supporters will get ###### off, never mind the players he is keeping out of the squad.

If you seriously think that supporters of a club with the likes of Jason Brown, Chris Samba, Martin Olsen, Steven Reid, Aaron Mokoena, Jason Roberts and others are racist, then you are deluded.

This comes from a part-time supporter of one of the most bigoted and racially motivated clubs in world football. Muppet.

[Sandiway Blue]

Well, you'll never get one. Andy Cole and Benni McCarthy are two of the top 5 strikers to grace Rovers in the time since I've been watching them, which is since 1991. Both of them took/are taking more stick than was ever aimed at Paul Dickov, or Ashley Ward, or Graham Fenton or any of the other useless journeyman strikers that have "graced" rovers since. The fact that ALL of them were called lazy, whereas the white strikers were called other things- all different, but ALL at least called "hard-working" is what makes me know that it was simply a euphemism.

At no point on here has anybody mentioned skin colour with regards to a players performance (nor should they) but what you insinuate is too ridiculous for words.I can name players who have played for Rovers that can be described as hard working or lazy regardless of colour.

Richard Brown was a hard working player albeit with limited ability as was Marlon Broomes however the same can be said of Paul Dickov and Matty Holmes.At the other end of the scale you have Dwight Yorke and Barry Ferguson who had bags of ability but not the desire to perform at the expected level.

Colour was not the issue here,all players were merely judged on their performances (or non-performances) and were rated by supporters accordingly.

In my view you are completely out of order and SHOULD do the right thing and apologise,and in future have a think about what you are saying before you put it into text.

[JAL]

I think Benni has started the season just as he did last season, this season though sees another new addition in Santa Cruz and he and the rest of the players are just geting used to how one another play. It takes time, i seem to remember Macarthy coming alive after we had beaten Reading away - how far into the season was that ?

Relax the time to get more from Benni is when the importance of the games become more significant and meaningful than this early in the season.

Hes a luxury item that puts the icing on the cake but like all luxuries the team have to work dammed hard to afford them and sometimes we just cant afford them so lets just enjoy it when we can.

[Sandiway Blue]

I think Benni has started the season just as he did last season, this season though sees another new addition in Santa Cruz and he and the rest of the players are just geting used to how one another play. It takes time, i seem to remember Macarthy coming alive after we had beaten Reading away - how far into the season was that ?

Relax the time to get more from Benni is when the importance of the games become more significant and meaningful than this early in the season.

Hes a luxury item that puts the icing on the cake but like all luxuries the team have to work dammed hard to afford them and sometimes we just cant afford them so lets just enjoy it when we can.

Well said,it is always harder the 2nd season for a player new to the league as the other teams now know a bit more about him.

As they say form is temporary but class is permanent and Benni will prove to be the class act he is.

[Exiled in Toronto]

We've had three black Champions League winners in our team and apparently all of them were lazy! I'll bet all of them cover more yards than Simon Garner ever did. Perhaps players who have scaled the heights have a different playing style than the more mundane whitey's we've had up front. Cole, Yorke and Benni would have been found out long ago if they were deliberately not trying. Hughes of all people with his own playing style and the wonders of Prozone would be first on the case.

[Silencio]

We've had three black Champions League winners in our team and apparently all of them were lazy! I'll bet all of them cover more yards than Simon Garner ever did. Perhaps players who have scaled the heights have a different playing style than the more mundane whitey's we've had up front. Cole, Yorke and Benni would have been found out long ago if they were deliberately not trying. Hughes of all people with his own playing style and the wonders of Prozone would be first on the case.

Quoted for Truth. Didn't see the game on Saturday and can imagine how Benni played but he's absolute quality and the best finisher we've had since Shearer. Hughes would/will bomb him out when/if there's ever a problem.

It comes back to this, we are definately never going to get a better striker for 2.5-3 million and would you rather go back to Dickov and Ward who missed every one on one they got?

[thenodrog]

Lot of hot air on here imo. 'In some schools' as Big Ron once opined whilst talking about a lifeless performance for Chelsea by Desailley, the colour prejudice in the 'lazy' issue is somewhat based in accurate perception. It's a %age thing. Of course not all black players are lazy, the likes of Pele, Eusabio, Vierra, Gullitt, Henry, Ince and very many more totally and completely disprove that that, as do the more recent examples of SWP, Essien and Samba etc. But imo there is a greater %age of black players accused of appearing lazy than the %age of non blacks who are accused of the same lack of effort. I'm sure that the intention of some black players is to appear to be laid back or languid rather than lazy (btw can anybody rem Cole or Yorke running wide right or left as a certain Alan Shearer frequently did to make themselves available for the ball very often? I certainly can't.). To appear to be able to 'do the business' without breaking sweat is predominantly part of the Caribbean / cool / black / reggae / ganja culture as characterised by many fictional examples on TV, music and film, so it's small wonder it manifests itself so starkly on a Prem football pitch where in stark contrats to everybody else endeavouring to do the complete opposite is it? A strange comment on our attitudes as a crowd toward players occurred a few years ago when Andy Cole in a rage after losing the ball chased the ball back 40 yards a 3 opposition passes before winning it back on the edge of our area. Superb tenacity that won loud and prolonged applause from 3 sides of the ground. Why though? The likes of Sav, Dickov and Speedie do/did that all the time but to nothing more than appreciative ripples of applause at best! I suggest that it is down to some of the players themselves to lay the 'lazy' perception to rest rather than seek to justify the criticism. If Cole had done that on a few more occasions he would be remembered far better by the supporters than he is now. Dwight Yorke too could have enhanced his reputation no end. The impression given was that breaking sweat was beneath them.... not something that either got away with for long at OT btw!

Now before anybody jumps to conclusions and blows their self-righteous, highly indignant fuses compare this to the equally colour prejudiced attitude towards red heads. Just as black people get tagged lazy, then ginners are usually stereotyped as being quick tempered and fiery despite very many being the opposite. btw anybody name any ginner players who appear lazy? Are all Arabs thieves? Are all Germans arrogant? Are all latins shifty? Japanese inscrutable / cruel etc etc? They are all simply the results of the general observations by human beings of other human beings belonging to a certain genetic trait. Its an ancient and imo defensive human instinct. Question is do the %ages stack up behind this basic instinct? We should never underestimate this 'attribute', after all we all share it to some level no matter how superior or civilised we consider ourselves, to do so would be misguided in the extreme. It's been developed and honed deep within the human sub-concious over millions of years.... a lot longer than the time since the race relations act was passed through parliament and the 'Kick racism out' campaign was applied to the game of football! I suggest that there is obviously some basic accuracy in the various perceptions we hold but never enough to generalise on individuals, and only the foolish, naive or ignorant would do so completely, just as only the similarly foolish, naive or ignorant from the other side of the coin would pretend to deny the existence and influence of such instincts within themselves.

btw lazy strikers at BRFC? Anybody rem John Radford?

Edited September 18, 2007 by thenodrog