[Archived] Benni Mccarthy - Gone

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Not happy at all with this.

STILL one of the best strikers at the club and now he wants out....what the hell did we all expect with Allardyce having seemingly frozen him out of the side?

Why am I starting to get the feeling many blues are getting a tad restless with you Sam?....a player of his calibre should be part of your plans FFS!

Never mind,we've still got 'Roberto' when Di Santo and McCarthy leave,we appear to be going backwards.

Edited November 2, 2009 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Stuart]

That's the worry. We know who is/was the top of his wish list.

I don't want to imagine the fans' reactions if Sam sold Benni to bring in KD. It would go down like... something that goes down really badly.

[Amo]

I don't want to imagine the fans' reactions if Sam sold Benni to bring in KD. It would go down like... something that goes down really badly.

Lead balloon?

Madness to offload McCarthy. Unfortunately he just doesn't fit into Sam's inflexible formation, which is a mighty disappointment. People say he's lazy, but the same is levied at Dimitar Berbatov. I think 'casual' is a better way to describe. Their talent and composure is still invaluable when the moment comes.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I can't really see why the sudden outburst about McCarthy. Yes - he is a decent finisher - but he is rarely in the right place these days anyway. He is frequently off-side, he has no pace - and IMO isn't suited for the Premiership.

For the comparisons with Roberts - I will give you that he isn't a natural finisher - but many of the chances he misses he makes himself with his strength and pace. The truth is that McCarthy wouldn't be in the position to take the chances anyway - so I find the comparison flawed.

For all the talk of flair - when ? There have been odd glimpses - but nothing frequent enough to justify all the hype. All because he does back-heels that sometimes come off doesn't make him the player that people are making him out to be. He had one good season at Rovers - the rest of the time he has been distinctly average.

If we can get anywhere above £2m I would be happy.

[modes98]

Yes - he is a decent finisher - but he is rarely in the right place these days anyway. He is frequently off-side, he has no pace - and IMO isn't suited for the Premiership.

Our best finisher!

His first season proved he is suited to the premiership, since then he has been in and out the team but always manages to get goals.

He is lazy but that is a trait that is easily overlooked when you consider his goal return. I'd much rather have 2 tap in goals, than have roberts bang 2 straight at the keeper but work really hard whilst doing it. Andy Cole was cut from the same cloth and he is one of the highest scorers of all time in the premiership.

[47er]

Our best finisher!

His first season proved he is suited to the premiership, since then he has been in and out the team but always manages to get goals.

He is lazy but that is a trait that is easily overlooked when you consider his goal return. I'd much rather have 2 tap in goals, than have roberts bang 2 straight at the keeper but work really hard whilst doing it. Andy Cole was cut from the same cloth and he is one of the highest scorers of all time in the premiership.

He is mentally flawed and this explains why year after year he was rumoured to be coming to a big Premiership club and every year it never happened. He had one good season with us but came with the aim of making it to a big club, hopefully Chelsea. It was embarassing to see him snuggling up tp Mpourhino in the way he did just before kick-off at Stamford Bridge.

When his big transfer didn't come off he sulked and his form died.He tried to hold us to ramsom, while taking our cash of course, and he's now reaping what he's sown.

Talented but flawed like many players down the years.I'd never let him go to Portsmouth though!

[broadsword]

I can't really see why the sudden outburst about McCarthy. Yes - he is a decent finisher - but he is rarely in the right place these days anyway. He is frequently off-side, he has no pace - and IMO isn't suited for the Premiership.

For the comparisons with Roberts - I will give you that he isn't a natural finisher - but many of the chances he misses he makes himself with his strength and pace. The truth is that McCarthy wouldn't be in the position to take the chances anyway - so I find the comparison flawed.

For all the talk of flair - when ? There have been odd glimpses - but nothing frequent enough to justify all the hype. All because he does back-heels that sometimes come off doesn't make him the player that people are making him out to be. He had one good season at Rovers - the rest of the time he has been distinctly average.

If we can get anywhere above £2m I would be happy.

Great, so Benni doesn't create the sort of chances that Roberts makes and then fluffs for himself? Can't see the difference myself.

But Benni *does* stick the ball away when he has the chance.

I don't think you could actually call Roberts a striker really. He's like a nightclub bouncer in a football kit.

[Steve Moss]

Suppose it all depends on where Sam see's Benni in our plans. Its a shame because he is a natural goalscorer that on his day is fantastic to watch. Unleash Benni against Pompey!!

I don't think Sam sees Benni as part of our plans. He's not the type of player Sam prefers up front.

Benni might not be the easiest of individuals to coach, but this smells a lot of Sam Allardyce to me. . . .

I guess it's the price we pay for having him as a manager.

Yes, it is. Sam has his tactics, his method. Benni doesn't fit them. So Sam is doing the best thing for both Benni and the club and moving him on. Hopefully for a very good price.

I might be reading too much into it, but the handshake Sam and Benni exchanged as Benni was being brought on was pure class. It looked like two professionals, both of whom knew what they were about. Benni might be unhappy and Sam may prefer another style striker, but both appear to be conducting themselves very well in regard to one another.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Great, so Benni doesn't create the sort of chances that Roberts makes and then fluffs for himself? Can't see the difference myself.

But Benni *does* stick the ball away when he has the chance.

I don't think you could actually call Roberts a striker really. He's like a nightclub bouncer in a football kit.

For me the big difference is in how the opposition defence has to play against each of these two players. Against Roberts they have a battle - also knowing they have to be wary of the ball over the top utilising his pace. Against McCarthy - just play a half decent off-side trap and you know you will have a reasonable amount of free kicks every time Rovers attack.

In a good side, with plenty of pace he would probably be a good player. In a team devoid of a half decent passing midfield player (excl Dunny), with little pace - he is a luxury that I am afraid we can't afford.

Edited November 2, 2009 by DavidMailsTightPerm

[MeanGreenMachine]

What absolute utter ######.

Please find me a striker for less than 10million who has consistantly scored 10goals plus each season in the premiership since he has been here. Add to that being in and out of the team at times due to tactics and managerial nightmares.

A luxery? What a striker who can score goals? Give me a freakin break.

If BFS flogs Benni because he doesn't fit into his 'tactics' (i use that term very loosely as i could have chose 11 players and told them to loose the past 3 away games), then we deserve all we get.

[thenodrog]

It's a quandary. BM is the best and most natural striker that we have but he doesn't appear to be willing to even attempt to adapt his game for the benefit of the tactics and team.

[American]

It's a quandary. BM is the best and most natural striker that we have but he doesn't appear to be willing to even attempt to adapt his game for the benefit of the tactics and team.

The flip side being that the manager doesn't appear to be willing to adapt his tactics to the strengths of his best striker.

[gumboots]

The flip side being that the manager doesn't appear to be willing to adapt his tactics to the strengths of his best striker.

Quite. The players we've got are what the manager has to work with. When I have to put a meal together and can't go to the shops I look in the cupboard etc and decide what I can make with what I've got that will feed us all and be tasty at the same time. I don't insist on making a beef casserole if what I've got is chicken, mushrooms and cream. I think it's the manager's inflexibility that is more annoying than any perceived long ball tactics.

[alexanders]

I am getting a tad tired of Mr.Sam Allardyce.

Why can't he see what most of the supporters are seeing?

We need a natural goalscorer in Benni in the first XI or at least from 60 minutes in the game?

Keith Andrews needs to be dropped. We know (compared to last season) have plenty of possibilities to be playing 4-4-2 and attacking!

I really agree with those whome think Jason Roberts is awful. I can't forgive him for all the misses he did last season. He almost cost ut the Premiership and he represends an awful type of football. Strength, strength, strength, Same as Heskey. Useless.

Edited November 3, 2009 by alexanders

[Majiball]

Quite. The players we've got are what the manager has to work with. When I have to put a meal together and can't go to the shops I look in the cupboard etc and decide what I can make with what I've got that will feed us all and be tasty at the same time. I don't insist on making a beef casserole if what I've got is chicken, mushrooms and cream. I think it's the manager's inflexibility that is more annoying than any perceived long ball tactics.

Couldn't agree more.

[S15]

I suspect if Benni were in the team, it would only take three or four games before people started calling for him to be dropped.

Yes, he is our best finisher, but the harsh reality is he hasn't played well over a prolonged period since his first season now, and nothing will alter that. Considering he is now three years older, and a good stone heavier, I don't see that building a system around him is worth while.

If it were Hughes easing in a new, young £6m striker at McCarthy's expense, or if it were Hughes overseeing Dunn's phenomenal form, which is keeping BM out the team discussions like this wouldn't exist.

We will be fine this season, so would I prefer for us to be building the team around a 32 year old, or a 20 odd year old? I agree with a previous poster that, once we get through these first couple of years with Sam, we will be punching the heights Bolton did under him. Like it or lump it but I suspect the board will have similar sentiments, hence a few people are going to have to start reasoning with some of Sam's methods, as they are tried and tested at the highest level.

[Iceman]

For me the big difference is in how the opposition defence has to play against each of these two players. Against Roberts they have a battle - also knowing they have to be wary of the ball over the top utilising his pace. Against McCarthy - just play a half decent off-side trap and you know you will have a reasonable amount of free kicks every time Rovers attack.

In a good side, with plenty of pace he would probably be a good player. In a team devoid of a half decent passing midfield player (excl Dunny), with little pace - he is a luxury that I am afraid we can't afford.

David this is rubbish. The fact that he gets caught offside, shows that he makes the runs to get on the ball. One of the old school managers, cant get to his name now, said that there is nothing wrong with getting caught offside. There will come a chance, when the defence makes an error in judgement, and you in. He called it persistance with a bit of luck. His poor timing could be up to him, or it could just be the midfield not delivering the ball to him quick enough. At this point in time, we could do with a goal scorer, and not a lump like Roberts. How many goals has Benni scored in the premiership, compared to Roberts who has been longer in the English leagues. Anybody?

[thenodrog]

Couldn't agree more.

1. Only a woman could have come up with that analogy.

2. The team comes before any individual majiball you must know that.

3. Do we reduce the effectivness and possibly deflate our currently most effective player to make way for a square peg (albeit a very talented one) or do we keep the very talented but physically unfit square peg on the subs bench where imo he will prob have more impact. Lets face it whilst very talented neither Dunny nor Benny are in shape for a full on 90 mins of rem football are they? Neither are ideally suited to the centre forward role and both become much more ineffective if they are asked to play deep.

4. How do we fare defensively if we attempt to play them both?

[gumboots]

1. Only a woman could have come up with that analogy.

2. The team comes before any individual majiball you must know that.

3. Do we reduce the effectivness and possibly deflate our currently most effective player to make way for a square peg (albeit a very talented one) or do we keep the very talented but physically unfit square peg on the subs bench where imo he will prob have more impact. Lets face it whilst very talented neither Dunny nor Benny are in shape for a full on 90 mins of rem football are they? Neither are ideally suited to the centre forward role and both become much more ineffective if they are asked to play deep.

4. How do we fare defensively if we attempt to play them both?

Doesn't make the analogy any less relevant. and i wouldn't suggest always playing McCarthy and certainly not at the expense of Dunn playing as he is. But there can surely be more of a place for him while we are paying his wages. Scoring a few goals would do the whole team the world of good. McCarthy scores if you give him chances. Playing different styles sometimes means we are far less predictable and therefore harder to play against. I like winning and am therefore prepared to put up with some dire stuff sometimes, but sometimes I'd like to see something other than the hit and hope football that we often (though not always) get. Yes, the team is more important than an individual, but sometimes you have to let individuals have their day too.

[Tris]

4. How do we fare defensively if we attempt to play them both?

After 10 games we are joint last out of 20 on goals conceded, so it can't get much bloody worse than that can it?

[thenodrog]

After 10 games we are joint last out of 20 on goals conceded, so it can't get much bloody worse than that can it?

You do have a point. And that is a stat that I'd not have foreseen with SA in charge. Nobody found Notlob's defense all that generous did they?

[Ricky]

unfortunately more than half of those goals came in just 2 games.

I still think we should be playing Benni, he scores goals and we're not scoring enough. Give him a run in a 4-4-2 and lets see what happens.

[Al]

David this is rubbish. The fact that he gets caught offside, shows that he makes the runs to get on the ball. One of the old school managers, cant get to his name now, said that there is nothing wrong with getting caught offside. There will come a chance, when the defence makes an error in judgement, and you in. He called it persistance with a bit of luck. His poor timing could be up to him, or it could just be the midfield not delivering the ball to him quick enough. At this point in time, we could do with a goal scorer, and not a lump like Roberts. How many goals has Benni scored in the premiership, compared to Roberts who has been longer in the English leagues. Anybody?

No Iceman he doesn't get caught offside from making runs. He gets caught offside because he is too slow and lazy to get back onside after an attack. There is an answer somewhere but it is not McCarthy. If he does not score you have played with ten men, much like playing with Andrews and perish the thought of having them both on the pitch at once.

Much better to give Kalinic a run to find out if he is ever going to make it. At 20 he will get better. McCarthy will only get fatter, slower and lazier.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

No Iceman he doesn't get caught offside from making runs. He gets caught offside because he is too slow and lazy to get back onside after an attack. There is an answer somewhere but it is not McCarthy. If he does not score you have played with ten men, much like playing with Andrews and perish the thought of having them both on the pitch at once.

Much better to give Kalinic a run to find out if he is ever going to make it. At 20 he will get better. McCarthy will only get fatter, slower and lazier.

Both Jason and Benni are prone to stand still and whinge when a move breaks down and are slow coming back on side, but there are times that Benni is caught off side when trying to pinch a few yards on the last defender.

The problem with this is that the midfield is just a split second slow in picking a pass. It is not a new problem as Andy Cole had the same issue when he was here.

The fact remains that our midfield is just not good enough. But to be fair if any of our midfielders were quick enough to supply that sort of pass they would be at a higher club than us.

[roversfan1]

Personally I wouldnt be sorry to see him go as his work rate at times is laughable - against Peterborough he showed what a good player he could be but that was against a 10 man Championship side, in the Premier League he has shown precious little in recent years to justsify his wages IMO! After failing to secure his move to Chelsea he hasnt been the same player which is a shame...I would let him go but only if and when we had someone in to replce him.

Benni is undoubtably talented but never achieved his full potential due to a lack of application and willingness to appreciate that hard work AND talent is what makes for a decent player.