[Archived] "global Warming"

[den]

The earths warming/cooling periods take tens of thousands of years. Stern says if we don't act very soon, the earths temp has a more than 75% chance of rising by 2 or 3 degrees in the next 50 years. That would be quite awesome in it's effect on the Earth as the BBC link explains.

The comments from some people that this is happening now anyway and can't be stopped, are way off the mark - according to the worlds top scientists. Financially Stern is working out that to do something now, will make much more economic sense than hoping Global warming will disappear.

BBC report

[HugeChin]

Oh, and must plug all the volcanoes. We don't want any of them erupting and causing more pollution.

A good eruption producing lots of dust and dirt etc will cool the planet... bring it on.

[BuckyRover]

I have just seen on the front of the Independant that the Government plans to treble the number of flights ni the UK by 2030. At least our green tax will be saving the world.

So you are prepared to pay more money to use cars, yet the Goverment is quite happy massively increasing Air traffic, and nobody bats an eyelid.

Unbelievable.

I think they people that want to pay extra and saying it so they can sit at home of an evening with a smug grin on their face thinking "Im saving the world, what a great person I am; I hate 4x4 drivers, the scumbags"

[Eddie]

It is idiotic, but simply because mistakes are being made is no reason to forget about the entire thing.

[BuckyRover]

I think it is, because they are the ones with the power. If they care that much about it then how could within the last week, they approve the widening of the M1 and talk about trebling air travel, and then in the same breath say we will be taxed to go green.

[Flopsy]

Lets stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away then.

That'll sort it

[herbergeehh]

Fact or fiction isn't really the right question to ask, unless you are a religious fanatic or George Bush. The facts are there, the people not aknowledging them must have conflicting interests.

[BuckyRover]

Im not going to stick my head in the sand. Im going to do my bit.

I will turn my tv off and not leave on standby.

-James O'Hare, World Hero.

[EIEIEIO]

The comments from some people that this is happening now anyway and can't be stopped, are way off the mark - according to the worlds top scientists.

BBC report

Other top scientists who aren't trying to make a career for themselves say we are only guessing. The fact is there is no evidence whatsoever. Lets be honest here we ain't got any records of meaning or any clue to how our world works.

These "top scientists" have nothing to say and are saying it too loud. " summers will get hotter and winters colder" they say, well that sounds like a good balance too me.

Fact or fiction isn't really the right question to ask, unless you are a religious fanatic or George Bush. The facts are there, the people not aknowledging them must have conflicting interests.

Come on then lets list a few facts then? Not predictions stone cold facts please!

[Modi]

Other top scientists who aren't trying to make a career for themselves say we are only guessing. The fact is there is no evidence whatsoever. Lets be honest here we ain't got any records of meaning or any clue to how our world works.

These "top scientists" have nothing to say and are saying it too loud. " summers will get hotter and winters colder" they say, well that sounds like a good balance too me.

Come on then lets list a few facts then? Not predictions stone cold facts please!

It's a fact that the earth has been 'cold' rather than 'warm' for most of it's existence.

It's a fact that most lifeforms can adapt upto a mean temperature of around +/- 5 degrees of the norms over an extended timescale.

It's a fact that where changes in temperatures of more than +/- 5 degrees has happened 'rapidly' (ie decades or even centuries, not millenia) then mass extinctions take place.

It's a fact that the planet is currently experiencing 'fairly rapid' warming.

It's a fact a similar fairly rapid, but slightly slower and less sustained, warming happened about 500 years ago and that didn't lead to mass extinctions as the warming slowed and then reversed.

What is questionable is if the current fairly rapid warming will be continued (or accelerated) or will be reversed. If it continues, then there is trouble ahead. If it is reversed, it's basically just another Tudor warming period but slightly quicker.

I think what the current debate is really meaning to look at is if humanity's actions are contributing to the acceleration or stopping the natural reversal from happening. That's what the whole world needs to consider. Unfortunately, even if the UK is wonderfully well behaved, we won't have a British Isles shaped exclusion zone from the effects global warming.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Modi

[den]

Other top scientists who aren't trying to make a career for themselves say we are only guessing. The fact is there is no evidence whatsoever. Lets be honest here we ain't got any records of meaning or any clue to how our world works.

These "top scientists" have nothing to say and are saying it too loud. " summers will get hotter and winters colder" they say, well that sounds like a good balance too me.

Come on then lets list a few facts then? Not predictions stone cold facts please!

You just wiped out a report from the chief economist from the world bank and 95% of the worlds scientists in one swipe. What are you doing posting on here?

Royal society

Take a look, then come back on what they have to say.

- and before you ask, this is who they are.

[Jack]

It's been hotter than this before and it cooled down again. Taxes will not stop it. Tony Blair trying to save the world while talking about trebling air travel, he's having a laugh. He's only trying to build his war chest before we go into Iran. We might get a bit hotter yet but don't worry, we'll cool down again.

[adopted scouser]

It's been hotter than this before and it cooled down again. Taxes will not stop it. Tony Blair trying to save the world while talking about trebling air travel, he's having a laugh. He's only trying to build his war chest before we go into Iran. We might get a bit hotter yet but don't worry, we'll cool down again.

Effin 'ell Jack ... a post with no link

[broadsword]

I have just seen on the front of the Independant that the Government plans to treble the number of flights ni the UK by 2030. At least our green tax will be saving the world.

That just takes the pish.

I'm sorry, that's just jaw-dropping. Have these people no shame?

[blue phil]

Instead of putting a blanket tax on all cheap flights (which incidentally would leave many isolated areas without the benefits of tourism and trade) maybe our Government in its wisdom could tax according to the miles a person does in any given year .

For example those rich ba$tardos who travel on holiday every other week and have multiple homes would pay through the nose on an ever increasing scale the more they travelled .

Any chance of the Gov't taking an option other than that which would hit the poorest hardest and the well off the least ? I somehow doubt it .

[den]

Instead of putting a blanket tax on all cheap flights (which incidentally would leave many isolated areas without the benefits of tourism and trade) maybe our Government in its wisdom could tax according to the miles a person does in any given year .

More tax on petrol then?

I'll bet somewhere along the line, you've complained about that.

[blue phil]

Read again , Den . I was talking about taxing the number of miles a person does...

[den]

Care to explain how that would work?

[Jack]

Effin 'ell Jack ... a post with no link

Sorry, i'll put one in for you next time.

[Ewood Spark]

Come on then lets list a few facts then? Not predictions stone cold facts please!

Fact 1: When I walk into my conservatory on a sunny day the temperature in there is warmer than the ambient temperature outside.

Fact 2 : The mechanism explaining the effect described in fact 1 is as follows :- Glass is transparent to short wavelength light radiation but is opaque to long wavelength infra-red radiation. Light radiation (from the sun) enters the conservatory and is absorbed by non-reflective surfaces within. This is then re-radiated as longer wavelength infra-red radiation which is now trapped by the glass.... hence the temperature rises.

Fact 3: Carbon dioxide exhibits similar properties to glass in respect to it's effect on the two types of radiation.

Fact 4: Carbon dioxide which has been locked-up in the form of various carbon compounds for millions of years is being released in an 'instant' (in geological terms).

Fact 5: Geological history demonstrates that 'sudden' environmental changes on a global scale result in mass extinctions. Adaptation due to evolution functions over geological timescales.

[blue phil]

Care to explain how that would work?

A tax on the number of miles an air passenger travels or the number of flights he/she does in a year . It's not rocket science . I think in the 21st century it could be feasible to do this - even by this cretinous government that you so admire .

[den]

Phil, I'm amazed as to how many times you bring the government into this. You must have a hard time getting through life with a complex like that.

[blue phil]

Well you asked the question , Den , and considering that it's the government which determines taxation , how one earth could I not mention the morons ?

[American]

I take it you in the same camp that belives the earth is flat?

I would take notice of the 90%+ experts who think global warming is happpening, as they know a lot more about the subject as anybody elese

And what makes them "experts"? The fact that they have been constantly wrong in their predictions, so change them to fit the data? The "experts" have been wrong on about 80% of their predictions so far. Lawro does better.

Originally it was that things will get much warmer. Now that this is being proven wrong and Antartic temperatures overall are dropping and amount of ice is rising, it's that the extra warm air will actually make things colder (see Day After Tomorrow).

Read the book State of Fear by Michael Crichton. Very interesting points backed up with well researched data.

Is what we are doing good for the earth? Probably not. Is there a major overreaction? Definitely.

[blue phil]

The "experts" have been wrong on about 80% of their predictions so far. Lawro does better.

Have you any statistics to back that up ...?