[Archived] Rovers 1-1Tottenham

[John]

I thought Pedersen had one of his better games of late.

We saw him take a few players on today and he got past his man a couple of times.

Gray was good and it was maybe because he has got his match sharpness back.

[AxesFirstTouch]

MGP crap as always, yes he tried to take on a few players ( first time in how many matches ), but if he does get past a player with skill hes soon caught. The trouble is, if he has a half decent game, it seems to allow him another 5 games of indeptness and Hughes just wont drop him. What does it take for Hughes to drop this passenger? Its seems even if Gray has a half decent game Hughes drops him next him game, I dont what it is Hughes sees in MGP but its something most of us lot dont see.

Edited November 19, 2006 by wakefieldrawks

[92er]

Gray seemed to improve after we went down to 10. He also didn't have a direct winger to deal with, and this is where he comes unstuck.

Benni also did much better when he was the lone striker. Despite MH saying in the LT he was supporting Chris and had been working with him in 1 to 1 sessions, there is no sign of a partnership developing between the 2 strikers and despite Tugay's passing quality, there is very little being created in terms of chances.

I don't know if MH is worried, presuming his missing players will eventually come back and get us out of this mess, but we currently have a lot of problems.

[Blackpool_Rover]

I cant believe some people still moaning about Gray. He was man of the match today and he has had about 5 bad games in 3 years for us, thats all.

[LeChuck]

What does it take for Hughes to drop this passenger? Its seems even if Gray has a half decent game Hughes drops him next him game, I dont what it is Hughes sees in MGP but its something most of us lot dont see.

I think the main reason is the lack of alternatives. Gray is battling directly with Neill for the left back slot so it's easy to understand why he will find it harder to have a sustained run in the side, especially whilst Hughes is trying to persuade Neill to sign a new contract.

Despite the obvious potential, Peter wouldn't be an improvement on Pedersen at present (although you could argue his inclusion would benefit him/us more in the long run). If you think back to before he won a place in the side, Emerton was being used out there...but he's now found his best position so that rules him out. The best option we probably have is to bring Gallagher into the midfield, but that might not solve much as the issue about pace and strength wouldn't be resolved. Personally I'd go with Gallagher on the right and Bentley on the left for a few games and see how that goes, but it's not too difficult to see why Pedersen is keeping his place at present.

[AxesFirstTouch]

I cant believe some people still moaning about Gray. He was man of the match today and he has had about 5 bad games in 3 years for us, thats all.

You obviously get to see all of Grays games living in the Czech Repulic dont you

[Baz]

If Tugay was last man (debatable), then according to the rules of the game - deliberate or not (except for cases of handball), the referee has no option but to give a red card.

from:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndRegulat...02/05/12117.htm

Sending-Off Offences

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

1. is guilty of serious foul play

2. is guilty of violent conduct

3. spits at an opponent or any other person

4. denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

7. receives a second caution in the same match

[USABlue]

As for Zokora (I think it was) who went down, yes it was him making a meal of it, but didn't exactly change the game.

It COULD have changed the game. Peter done him and was off to the races, Zokora went down clutched his head knowing the game would be stopped. Cheatin cheating cheating and for want of another word it is cheating. Did anyone see the smug grin as he looked back just aftr the incident.

It this the same player that totally flopped for a spurs penalty, twice I beleive but one was 100

% con. This is the kind of thing we need to stamp on. this is the kind of player that has no place on our game.

If Tugay was last man (debatable), then according to the rules of the game - deliberate or not (except for cases of handball), the referee has no option but to give a red card.

from:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndRegulat...02/05/12117.htm

Sending-Off Offences

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

1. is guilty of serious foul play

2. is guilty of violent conduct

3. spits at an opponent or any other person

4. denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

7. receives a second caution in the same match

The officials always seem to hav eoptions when it is other teams

Quick note on Mido, someone on here made metion of him being cult hero. I did not want to sign this fella when some were going all gaga over his signature. I am more relieved now than ever that we did not sign that fella. Did not like him then did nto like him today and he's not that good of a player either.

Edited November 19, 2006 by USABlue

[AggyBlue]

Similarly two minutes later I wasn't up in my seat screaming for the Mido handball and I was wondering if I'd missed something. Again on slow motion Mido clearly controlled the ball on his chest and it might just have brushed his arm slightly on the way down. I wouldn't have given it and would be livid if the same thing was awarded against us.

Well Rev, I had a great view of the handball. It clearly passed by his chest and he controlled it with his arm.

The only excuse the officials can have is that they didn't see it. It's this 'I didn't see it' attitude that should endorse the use of a fourth official watching the game on a monitor.

The ref was in a rank bad position at the time of the incident anyway.

And according to the experts on Match of the Day, it was a definate penalty, a definate red card and definately not handball.

I must have dreamt it all.

[den]

And according to the experts on Match of the Day, it was a definate penalty, a definate red card and definately not handball.

I must have dreamt it all.

and Ghally should not have been sent off.

[modes98]

I cant believe some people still moaning about Gray. He was man of the match today and he has had about 5 bad games in 3 years for us, thats all.

Even when he was sent on loan to leeds? Gray has been average and lacks the pace to be a top class left back. Having said that it was his best game for along time for us and long may it continue but i doubt he'll be in the team when lucas becomes fit again.

The direction the ball went in clearly indicates that he didn't chest it and his obvious delight at getting away with it. So much in fact that he can't even keep his mouth shut to managers and players. If your saying thats not a penalty then why bother having handball? The only ones you'd give would be John Terry diving saves.

Ghaly made the most of his "foul" it was a penalty but not a sending off and i await the FA appeal. No doubt Mr Dowd and his assistant won't even get a talking to. Mido has to have some FA protection order on him, how didn't he go for his countless offences and backchat?

Ghaly was unlucky to go but he seemed to go with intent and changed his mind. You just can't stick your arms up like that these days, you can't do anything at all!

Edited November 19, 2006 by modes98

[grizfoot]

And according to the experts on Match of the Day, it was a definate penalty, a definate red card and definately not handball.

I must have dreamt it all.

What experts???

[RevidgeBlue]

.

You 'avin' a larf Rev?

No, Neill has made it plain that he doesn't want to play for us and his last few performances have reflected that.

The sooner that particular saga is over the better. Thankfully it may only be another few weeks. If anyone still wants him.

[West Sussex Rover]

Just watched it again in slow motion. No way was it a penalty against Tugay let alone a red card. Tugay's foot was underneath his bum. After going over like he did what did the ref want Tugay to do, snap his leg off and throw it round his shoulder.

Ghally basically shoved his foot up Tugays ass to garentee a penalty was given.

The handball against Mido was DEFINATELY a penalty 100% so...!

Ghally then violently smashes his elbow into Gray's face and Jol has the cheek to say that Ghally's not got a agressive bone in his body... Ask Tugay that is what i say! As Ghally's boot is probably still stuck under Tugays ass!!

And the final nail in the stupidity which was called a match today was the ref giving a pathetic Jol a red card and sending him to the stands only for Jol to be given a reprieve by the football league.

TUGAYS GOAL THOUGH!! WOW!!

EDIT: Oh and has anyone seen how bias the SkySports News Team are!? Check out the commentary. I couldnt hear it in the pub!!

Edited November 20, 2006 by Rover The Moon

[colin]

And the final nail in the stupidity which was called a match today was the ref giving a pathetic Jol a red card and sending him to the stands only for Jol to be given a reprieve by the football league.

Dowd just asked him to move back away from the pitch - no red card involved.

Not that it really matters anyway, but did anyone else note that Brad was inches away from that penalty which was pretty much perfect? If we are going to get so many awarded against us (7 so far?) it's good to know we have him to stop at least some of them.

Apart from that I'll join everyone else in having a sweary-session at the sending off. A bit harsh as Toogs was heading towards Darwen & his leg was pointing at Brownhill.

[Eddie]

I think a lot of people are thinking that those who are saying it was a penalty are saying that Tugay meant to trip him, but we aren't. I don't think anyone would argue that it was intentional, which is why it certainly wasn't a red, but he tripped him all the same so it had to be a penatly, no disputing that in my opinion.

[LeChuck]

Just watched it again in slow motion. No way was it a penalty against Tugay let alone a red card. Tugay's foot was underneath his bum. After going over like he did what did the ref want Tugay to do, snap his leg off and throw it round his shoulder.

Ghally basically shoved his foot up Tugays ass to garentee a penalty was given.

The handball against Mido was DEFINATELY a penalty 100% so...!

Two ridiculously biased opinions.

There's was definitely a penalty, there are two camera angles that clearly show that Tugay took Ghaly's foot from underneath him with his trailing leg (albeit unintentionally). There were no theatrics on Ghaly's part, his standing leg was wiped out from underneath him, his eyes were on the ball all the time. The red card, however, was extremely harsh, I don't think many people will argue with that.

As for 'ours', there is no way you can say it's DEFINITELY a penalty when even multiple television replays aren't entirely conclusive. It probably should have been a penalty, but it's easy to understand why it wasn't given. Not that it effected the game at all, but Ghaly never should have been sent off, he'll almost certainly get his card overturned.

As someone else mentioned, I'm sure referees are doing their jobs honestly, the majority aren't just any good at it. If you look at the four major events today (two penalties and two red cards), one was right, two were definitely wrong and one borderline, but possibly wrong. It's certainly not a case of everything going against us.

[Exiled_Rover]

All controversies aside, I'm pretty happy with a point at home. With the way our squad is stretched we're going to struggle to stay up this year. I think we will, but there's not a lot of difference between the teams after the top four. A bit of luck, a rash of injuries, a purple patch - that's, essentially the difference between sixth and lurking near the relegation zone.

At the moment we're bang out of form, have injuries to the hilt and are getting no luck. Hopefully all this will change after Christmas, but up until then we just need to pick up the points where we can and cut down on conceding goals. The back four looked pretty solid tonight, I'd be tempted to stick with it for Thursday.

[SouthAussieRover]

Dowd praised by both managers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtm...20/sfgbla20.xml

[Scotty]

It was a big game today. A defeat, coupled with the fact that we're not playing next weekend, could have seen us going into December in the bottom three. A win and we're back into the mid-table scrum with about 10 other teams. So, it was good to see Savage and Emerton back in the team, but a shame that Neill missed out (Zurab was suspended as well but I wasn't too bothered about that). Gray and Henchoz replaced Neill and Zurab.

Nothing much happened for the first 15 minutes. The only real incident of note was when Rovers put together the best passing move of the match that found Nonda in space on the edge of the Spurs area. Sadly though his classy finish was wasted as he was rightfully adjudged off-side. Other than that the game was just scrappy and littered with mistakes, with Spurs having marginally the better of it. Eventually though Rovers started to get a grip of midfield and began to exert some pressure, but the goal still came like a bolt out the blue.

A long cross to the far post was met by Pedersen. He headed across goal, the ball was cleared by a Spurs defender, and Tugay volleyed the clearance into the net like a tracer bullet. Another 25 yard gem from the Turkish magician that lit up Ewood.

The game quickly sank back into the scrappy mess it was before the goal. We created little, gave the ball away constantly, but defended solidly until the last couple of minutes before half-time. Thankfully Spurs were just as bad as we were, but they did create two good chances just before the break - Mido spurned them both with poor finishes.

So, 1-0 up at half-time which was nice, but it had been a poor game (wonder goal aside) and we needed to improve if we were going to take all 3 points.

Spurs started the second half well. They were suddenly a yard quicker than us and pulled us all over the place in defence. Within the first five minutes of the half Mido hit another poor finish wide when he should have done better, then he had a goal disallowed for correctly being called off-side, and then they got the goal.

A good move saw Henchoz get dragged out wide on our left, leaving a huge gap for Ghaly to run into from midfield. Tugay did his job and tracked the run, but then dived in needlessly when the ball reached Ghaly in the area. Ghaly's clever turn would have took him past Tugay and clean through on goal had Tugay's trailing leg not accidentally brought him down. Accidental or not though it was a clear penalty and, by the letter of the law, a correct sending off. However, you have to question a law that results in Tugay getting a 3 match ban for an accidental trip when a player can make two cynical, dangerous tackles, receive two yellow cards for them, and only get a one match ban. Anyway, Defoe's penalty was expertly taken and we suddenly had it all to do.

A couple of minutes later we were awarded a free-kick halfway inside the Spurs half wide on our left. Savage swung the ball towards Ooijer on the far post but slightly overhit it, the ball sailed over Ooijer's head, struck Mido on the chest and then bounced off his out-stretched arm straight into his path enabling him to complete the clearance. Ewood as one shouted 'handball'. I can understand the ref not giving it as the TV replays showed that his view was obscured, but how the linesman - standing no more than 10 yards away with a completely unobstructed view - didn't give it is beyond me.

The incident seemed to fire Rovers up and we started to play our best football of the match. Mokoena came on for Nonda and suddenly the team were first to every ball, snapping into tackles all over the field. Our passing still wasn't great though, we still lacked real quality, and consequently we didn't create much in terms of real chances. But we did start to dominate possession and, for most of the second half, it looked like Spurs were the team down to 10 men.

In injury time Ghaly was harshly sent off for 'elbowing' Gray but it was too late to have any real impact on the match. As valient as our second half effort was we hadn't really done enough to deserve the 3 points and a draw was probably a fair result in the end.

Friedel hardly had anything to do. He had no chance with the penalty, made a couple of comfortable saves when he had to, but most of Spurs' best chances were hit off target.

Our back four did well apart from five minutes either side of half-time. Henchoz and Ooijer looked as solid a centre-half pairing as we've had this season - Ooijer in particular looked classy in possession and frequently stepped into midfield to spray the ball about. Emerton didn't play at his early season best but still got forward well at times and was rarely caught out defensively. Gray had probably his best game for over a year, paticularly after we'd gone down to ten men. He more than anyone showed the necessary drive and determination required to compensate for the missing man, frequently joining in the attacks and generally getting stuck in. He deserved his man of the match award but it should be noted that he didn't have a right winger up against him today (Spurs played a very narrow 4-4-2) which meant he didn't have much to do defensively. I'll wait a couple more games before I eat humble pie and admit I wrote him off too soon.

Tugay was the only quality performer we had in midfield today and, once he'd been sent off, we were never likely to create a winner. He'd have walked the man of the match award if he'd played the whole game. Savage looked a yard off the pace at times and both Pedersen and Bentley were guilty of wasting possession all too often. Bentley, in particular, seemed to be battling with Mido for the 'Worst Shot of the Match' award. Pedersen did beat his full-back a couple of times though which was a shock to me at least.

Up front it was all wrong. I'm starting to wonder whether Nonda is just a fair weather player - plays well with the sun on his back but goes missing in the cold and the wet. He was just awful today. No movement, no strength, no hold up play, no work-rate, no skill. No good. I was a big fan when he first joined but I'm starting to lose patience with him. McCarthy wasn't much better to be honest but at least he shows the odd brilliant flash here and there, enough to make you think he might score soon.

We were poor today, but so were Spurs and we were left wondering what might have been had the penalty against Mido been awarded. You can understand why both teams lacked confidence, we've lost our last 4 and Spurs haven't won away all season, but it's hard to understand why so many of our players are playing below the levels they were a few weeks ago. Maybe it is just confidence, maybe it's because they're hampered by injuries and aren't fully fit, who knows, but hopefully Hughes and his staff can use the upcoming break after the Feyenoord game to get everyone fit again and instil some belief back into the team.

As I said last week, our next 4 games are all winnable. If we can show the same spirit and determination we showed in the second half today, and add a bit of quality on top, then we'll reach Xmas in a good position. Tugay suspended for 3 games though isn't good.

[Rover4ever]

There were no theatrics on Ghaly's part, his standing leg was wiped out from underneath him, his eyes were on the ball all the time.

I am not quite sure why his facial expression resembled that of someone having his nails plucked out.........

[bob fleming]

On the ground everybody to a man appealed in all sides of the ground. It's the loudest handball appeal I've ever heard. It looked a nailed on penalty. However when I saw the replay on TV from two different angles several times there is a case that it strikes Midos chest which suprised me as I was (and still am) 100% sure it hit his arm.

The key is to watch the incident again at actual speed. As the cross comes over, Mido is almost stretchg sideways to reach the ball. However his control manages to make the ball deviate about 90 degrees. At the angle he was at there is no way he could have controlled this on his chest to make the ball roll infront of him. If it had hit his chest it would have gone out for a throw. The only way he could have controlled the ball that way unless he's got a pyramid for a chest (he is Egyptian) was with his arm, hence the reason at the time it looked so blatant.

People will say that a ref cant analyse this, doesnt have all the replays and if hes not sure cant give it. However at first glance at actual speed it is clear handball. Everyone can tell, the fans, the players and surely the officials. Even in commentary on Sky they called it as being a definate handball. Doubt only creeps in when you see the slow replays.

It was a pen. I can let the ref off for having his view blocked by half a dozen players. The linesman should be struck off for gross incompetance.

Whether or not it would have changed the result we'll never know.

Great post. Sums it all up nicely. It was a penalty. From my seat in the Blackburn End there was clearly daylight between his arm and chest and it hit his arm. End of.

I'm not interested in the fact that Sky didn't get the proper angle. There was a linesman there 20 yards from the incident, just what the hell was he doing? Diabolical.

[philipl]

The press is universal in giving Dowd a hard time this morning. In reality it is the two linesmen who were the complete muppets- one for calling Tugay last man (although Dowd saw the play from infield and hadn't called it a last man foul from a much better position from which to judge it)- and the other who bottled an uninterupted view of a handball.

The farcical nature of the officiating is summed up by Keith Hackett communicating that Jol was not sent off after Jol was convinced he was- to be honest I cannot remember seeing the second red on the TV coverage although the commentary immediately and decisively picked up that Jol had been dismissed. I guess that might have come from the Sky man on the touchline who heard the verbal exchange.

Even more damningly, the fourth official escorted Jol to the tunnel so he also clearly thought Jol had been dismissed!

So Hackett has started the damage limitation by reinventing a sending off into not a sending off. Now lets see what they do with the two red cards. Has to be said that Mido should have had two reds yesterday if Ghaly warranted a red.

Last summer Septic Blast threatened to remove the FA from FIFA because of the number of red cards being over-turned. If there is any justice, Tugay's card will be reversed and Ghaly's reduced to a yellow. I am concerned that Henchoz's summary justice on Mido will come into the spotlight when the melee that followed Ghaly's foul on Gray is reviewed.

Finally, well done to the Rovers crowd for generating enough noise. Jol is blaming you for pressurising the ref.

Edited November 20, 2006 by philipl

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I honestly believe that some body at Rovers has run over a black cat. Was it against Sheff Utd that Neill gave away a penalty for chesting the ball away (though in Neill's case it was the chest). Mido handles in the area (and from reports on here has admitted as much) - but it isn't given. Funny old game

[G Somerset Rover]

Er, except that in that case, Berg was FOULED?

Of course the Berg one was 100% more puzzling, but I was just likening it to the way that nobody in the whole crowd expected him to get sent off.