[Archived] Academy?

[92er]

Rover6, Just noticed that Cieron Donnally, you remember him don't you, he's the lad from the youth team that you felt should be playing in our first team when you had never seen him play, well he's now on loan at Southport in the Conference.

He was billed as one of our potential stars-captain of the England under 19's. As far as I know, he was the last one to stay with a professional club, and he went to Southport a few weeks ago.

I also noticed that Burnley are still in the FA Youth Cup, whereas we lost heavily a round or two ago. Someone in the Academy needs to be accountable for our lack of success.

[jim mk2]

Agreed - and Hughes has been in charge for some time now, so it makes you wonder why he has not made significant changes both to the scouting structure and the personnel. The academy obviously needs a shake-up.

[Billy Castell]

I'll say it again-bring in Simon (not Max) Clifford to run things. Could also do with an organiser not afraid to try to bring new things to the set up. I won't suggest Clive Woodward, out of fear of ridicule.

[92er]

Agreed - and Hughes has been in charge for some time now, so it makes you wonder why he has not made significant changes both to the scouting structure and the personnel. The academy obviously needs a shake-up.

One of the most successful managers in my life time of supporting the Rovers was, like MH, an ex-MU player, admittedly with less managerial experience than MH. As a young supporter I don't actually know if the manager I am thinking about instigated, or was the lucky recipient of his predecessor's work. He produced 2 England internationals and a Welsh captain and I have been half expecting MH to replicate the success of Johnny Carey in that department.

[FourLaneBlue]

It seems that although Cercle Brugge in Belgium aren't officially a feeder club for Rovers they may still be acting that way in reality.

Cercle currently have on their books one Prince Vusumuzi Nyoni from Zimbabwe and an international. Apparently he may well be a Rovers player and he is playing at Cercle for a while, presumably to get EU citizenship as it would be easier in Belgium, as it is very hard to get a work permit to play in the UK. A poster from Brugge on the official board heard that Cercle got him as they used the name of Rovers to scare off the other clubs. The guy is a 22-year old left-sided midfielder and signed a one-year contract so may be a Rover soon. When asked about it he said "I never played for Blackburn but my manager had contact with the English club" said Nyoni. "The people of Blackburn made it possible for me to test with Cercle. In a way they pushed me that direction."

After settling in he is now making the first team and appears to be doing well. Unfortunately it seems Prince is just his first name and he isn't actually royalty so we won't see a future king playing for Rovers unless William hurries up, quits the army and gets himself a contract. Here is the Prince in action for Cercle...

Rovers also apparently are sending over a Nigerian player they have in the Academy but who can't play for them yet. Name is Osahon Eboigbe (a traditional Blackburn name maybe?) and he follows in the footsteps of Keith Barker, Sergio Peter, Luke Jones, Paul Weaver and Jerome Watt, all of whom were poor at Cercle. Barker and Peter in particular were said to have had a poor attitude while there. Here is a pic of the Nigerian anyway...

It just goes to show how much bringing players through has changed in the last decade or so. Not only are Rovers branching out to scout players from Merseyside but they are also looking to sub-saharan Africa!

I got this info from the very interesting Cercle thread on the official board - Official Board - Cercle thread.

We also have a Cercle player on loan at the Academy for a year...Dwight Willie. Has anyone seen him? Unleaded is usually the best source for this kind of news...think he also posts as fourstar on the official board.

Also on that thread there are pictures of the Rovers side winning an international tournament in Scotland. Anybody know when this was or any other details?

This guy seems to be getting a Player of the Tournament award or something. Anybody know him?

Edited January 14, 2007 by FourLaneBlue

[FourLaneBlue]

I also noticed that Burnley are still in the FA Youth Cup, whereas we lost heavily a round or two ago. Someone in the Academy needs to be accountable for our lack of success.

If the first team continued to keep producing then the manager and coaches would be sacked. There may be a need for a shake-up somewhere...maybe some new scouts being brought in? Or more scouts?

That said the Academy team seems to be performing well in the league but poorly in the cups. Rovers are third in their North West Academies league and ahead of the Man Utd and Liverpool youth teams among others.

Fa Academies League Tables

The question is...how many need to make the step up for the whole operation to be considered a success?

Regarding Derbyshire - OK, a disappointment that he seems to be missing some sitters but it is encouraging that he is getting in the right place for them. It seems he is still pretty overawed by the whole prospect of playing at this level but hopefully when he gets used to it he'll start slotting a load of them away.

For Hughes to start him ahead of Nonda, who had been in decent goalscoring form, shows that he obviously has something. Hughes seems him in training so we can only assume that he has been impressing.

[den]

Regarding Derbyshire - OK, a disappointment that he seems to be missing some sitters but it is encouraging that he is getting in the right place for them. It seems he is still pretty overawed by the whole prospect of playing at this level but hopefully when he gets used to it he'll start slotting a load of them away.

For Hughes to start him ahead of Nonda, who had been in decent goalscoring form, shows that he obviously has something. Hughes seems him in training so we can only assume that he has been impressing.

Derbyshire started because Hughes felt that Nonda wasn't completely over his injury. For my Twopenneth FLB, Derbs was completely out of his depth yesterday.

[RevidgeBlue]

Derbyshire started because Hughes felt that Nonda wasn't completely over his injury. For my Twopenneth FLB, Derbs was completely out of his depth yesterday.

He does seem to have the knack of getting on the end of chances though and once he gets over the nervousness of being in the first team the goals may well start to flow. (If he is given the chance that is)

For my twopenneth Nonda didn't look any better than Derbyshire when he came on and Jeffers wouldn't even be capable of getting on the end of the sort of chances Derbyshire has missed in the first place.

[Silencio]

I thought Derbyshire was no worse than most yesterday.

[FourLaneBlue]

Derbyshire started because Hughes felt that Nonda wasn't completely over his injury. For my Twopenneth FLB, Derbs was completely out of his depth yesterday.

For mine he wasn't. If another player had made EXACTLY the same misses then you wouldn't have said that. To be perfectly honest it seems that you are biased towards him because he is an Academy player. Your posts reflect this somewhat as you ignore any positives yet focus on them not being good enough. No I don't think he is the answer to anything but I'll at least be decent enough to see what he can do over a while before rushing to write him off.

Give them a chance den; your negativity helps nobody.

Derbyshire started because Hughes felt that Nonda wasn't completely over his injury.

I didn't hear that - can you point me to the interview? I was surprised he started and think plenty of sub appearances may benefit him more. Running at tiring defenders gives him more of a chance of an impact.

[joey_big_nose]

For mine he wasn't. If another player had made EXACTLY the same misses then you wouldn't have said that. To be perfectly honest it seems that you are biased towards him because he is an Academy player. Your posts reflect this somewhat as you ignore any positives yet focus on them not being good enough. No I don't think he is the answer to anything but I'll at least be decent enough to see what he can do over a while before rushing to write him off.

Give them a chance den; your negativity helps nobody.

I didn't hear that - can you point me to the interview? I was surprised he started and think plenty of sub appearances may benefit him more. Running at tiring defenders gives him more of a chance of an impact.

Seconded, while Derbs wsn't fantastic and missed some sitters he certainly wan't poor. The qualit of his performance matched that of McCarthy who, while being much better on the ball, did not find it as often as the blackburn lad.

No complaints from me if Nonda starts the next game but I will be amazed if Derbyshire doesn't make quite a few more appearences as the season progresses.

[RevidgeBlue]

Not a criticism of McCarthy as such but he must have been practically impossible to play alongside yesterday due to him dropping so deep on some occasions and peeling off wide to the touchline on others.

[cn174]

Was in Liverpool today so picked up a copy of the local rag (The Echo) and read an interesting piece about the Academy system which Rafa Benitez has criticised recently. Was pleased to see that the Rovers Academy was singled out for special praise by those involved in schoolboys football in Merseyside and particularly in comparison with Everton and Liverpool.

I heard something quite interesting on Gillette Soccer Saturday about Liverpools academy. Since the academy system as we know it now begun, Liverpool haven't brought a single player through (Gerrard came before it) who has gone on to become a first team regular. And as such Benitez has started bringing in his own youth players (I think Lee has mentioned this a few weeks ago) a bit like Arsenal tend to do from all over the show, so essentially they have two academies.

So for all the faults in our academy, at least we've had some form of sucess with the likes of Gally, Douglas and now Derbyshire.

[RevidgeBlue]

I heard something quite interesting on Gillette Soccer Saturday about Liverpools academy. Since the academy system as we know it now begun, Liverpool haven't brought a single player through (Gerrard came before it) who has gone on to become a first team regular.

Aye, well, they aren't Spanish are they?

I'm afraid I'd have to call that a 0-0 draw. WE haven't brought through anyone who has become a first team REGULAR either.

Yet. I have high hopes for Derbyshire and I do wish Hughes would give Gallagher a fair crack. Emerton was rubbish for 4 seasons before this one yet still kept getting picked week in week out. imagine how far Gallagher would have progressed given that kind of run.

[den]

FLB, it was Hughes who said that Derbs started primarily because Nonda hadn't had a proper training session before the arse game. He said it on Radio Rovers. He also said that he thought that derbs would be able to trouble arsenal by running the channels, but because of the sending off, that opportunity didn't arise. He finished the game on the right wing - again. How many good strikers are moved out to the flanks when their team is behind?

Why do you say that I'm being negative, when I give my impression of any rovers academy player? I simply tell it as I see it. I was accused of exactly the same thing about Gally. There aren't many saying he's going to make a Premiership player now, are there? Matty isn't a youngster any more, he's 21 soon and should be showing a better all round game than he is doing at present - IMO. Don't be conned because he's scored a couple of goals. The main thing is, he must show that he's a real player. By that, I mean real quality/real pace and real power. We're talking Premiership here and the required standards are VERY high. Take a look around the other teams and the quality of their strikers. That's where Matt needs to be.

[RevidgeBlue]

The main thing is, he must show that he's a real player. By that, I mean real quality/real pace and real power. We're talking Premiership here and the required standards are VERY high. Take a look around the other teams and the quality of their strikers. That's where Matt needs to be.

Repeating myself here, but he does seem to have an uncanny knack of getting on the end of chances. You can't teach or learn that imo, you've either got it or you haven't.

Not only "chances". But strangely enough virtual shoe ins. Far too soon to write him off.

Edited January 15, 2007 by RevidgeBlue

[AggyBlue]

By that, I mean real quality/real pace and real power.

Stop picking on the lad. How many of our squad have 'real quality, real pace and real power' ?

Answer - None.

How come you expect a 20 year old kid with barely half a dozen first team games under his belt to be our best player on the pitch?

[den]

Repeating myself here, but he does seem to have an uncanny knack of getting on the end of chances. You can't teach or learn that imo, you've either got it or you haven't.

Not only "chances". But strangly enough virtual shoe ins. Far too soon to write him off.

I haven't written him off Rev. The couple of goals he's scored and the three or four that he's missed, do show an eye for a chance. There's much more than that needed to succeed at this level. I would really love him to come good and make it.

Like I said, he must start showing more soon, at 21 yrs old [in a couple of months], many lads are playing regular premiership football in their own right. Many of them much come through much younger than that.

Simple question, what percentage of strikers in the prem, come through past the age of 21? Anyone wish to guess?

Stop picking on the lad. How many of our squad have 'real quality, real pace and real power' ?

Answer - None.

How come you expect a 20 year old kid with barely half a dozen first team games under his belt to be our best player on the pitch?

Here we go again.

[RevidgeBlue]

Like I said, he must start showing more soon, at 21 yrs old [in a couple of months], many lads are playing regular premiership football in their own right. Many of them much come through much younger than that.

How many 21 year olds have we had playing regular first team football during our 15 years in the Premiership?

Not many at all.

[den]

How many 21 year olds have we had playing regular first team football during our 15 years in the Premiership?

Not many at all.

Dunn and Duff. They came through in their teens. Goes part way to what I'm saying.

[AxesFirstTouch]

Naming two players doesnt not go part way to what your saying, If you cant name all these 21 years olds who have made their name as strikers in the prem then why say it? Owen and Rooney dont count they are simple one off's in the last ten years.

[den]

Naming two players doesnt not go part way to what your saying, If you cant name all these 21 years olds who have made their name as strikers in the prem then why say it? Owen and Rooney dont count they are simple one off's in the last ten years.

The question was how many strikers come through, AFTER the age of 21 [ish]? Blimey, I aint limitting it to their 21st birthday plus or minus one day. I'm talking generally.

[AxesFirstTouch]

I haven't written him off Rev. The couple of goals he's scored and the three or four that he's missed, do show an eye for a chance. There's much more than that needed to succeed at this level. I would really love him to come good and make it.

Like I said, he must start showing more soon, at 21 yrs old [in a couple of months], many lads are playing regular premiership football in their own right. Many of them much come through much younger than that.

Simple question, what percentage of strikers in the prem, come through past the age of 21? Anyone wish to guess?

Here we go again.

Andy Johnson was 22 when Johnson ended the season as top scorer in the English First Division (now the Football League Championship) in the 2003-04 season with 32 goals. Palace reached the Playoffs and were promoted to the Premiership for 2004-05.

Kevin Doyle was 22 when he started knocking in the goals for Reading last year, and 23 this season.

Our own Jason Roberts was 24 when Despite being fully fit for 2002-03, Albion's first season in the Premiership, Roberts managed only 3 goals in 31 games.

Zamora was 23 -In January 2004 he joined West Ham, swapped for Jermain Defoe

Marlon Harewood was 25 - He returned to top flight football following West Ham's playoff victory at the end of the 2004-05 season, and the 2005-06 season saw Marlon spearheading Pardew’s Premiership attack. He scored 14 league goals

Louis Saha was 23 when Fulham first made it into the Prem.

Viduka didnt make the Prem until 25 - The Leeds United manager David O'Leary swooped for Viduka just before the 2000-01 season after tracking the big Aussie striker for some time

too many players to go through Only the exceptional talents breakthrough at 20,21. Derbyshire has a few more years before people can start writing him off, lets not forget at the moment he's currently got the build and stature of a teenager, hes most likely a late developer, Im sure once he starts to develop more muscle we'll see a much stronger player, a bit like Bentley who was same when he first started games here.

Edited January 15, 2007 by AxesFirstTouch

[Presty On Tour]

beattie perhaps, though he kind of set his career alight at southampton with the lack of first team oppertunities and we had a waste of space in return.

[AxesFirstTouch]

beattie was nearly 23 when he broke through in late 2000 - A series of injuries meant he struggled to make an impact at first with the Saints, but that all changed in November 2000 when he began a long goalscoring run. After 18 months without a goal, he scored ten in ten games, lifting Southampton into a comfortable position to secure their place in the Premiership for next season. However, his form dropped off after that and he scored only two goals in the rest of the season.

Thank you Wikipedia

Edited January 15, 2007 by AxesFirstTouch