[Archived] Congratulations To Newcastle United

[LeChuck]

Delusion is not just in the realm of the fans it would seem.....

Just read this on BBC News about Sunderland (the bit where they link a quote from 606 to a news article):

"Sunderland should go after David Moyes and pay whatever compensation they need to"

Must be something in the water in the north east.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

At least the silly prat has said sorry for his mistakes....

In a statement tonight on Newcastle's official website, the repugnant Mike Ashley has made a grovelling apology to the supporters for the blunders he has made.

Ashley said: "Seeing Newcastle United relegated from the Premier League has been a catastrophe for us all. I fully accept that mistakes were made and I am very sorry for that."

Link: Ashley: "I'm sorry for the catastrophe of relegation".

Ashley describes the appointment of Alan Shearer as Newcastle manager as "the best decision I have made."

Yet in his 8 matches in charge, Shearer gained just a pitiful 5 points from 8 games - having previously insisted that Newcastle would stay up and that they wouldn't be relegated to the Championship.

Shearer described the home matches with Portsmouth and Fulham as "must win games" and the biggest matches of his life - yet Shearer gained just 1 point from those two vital home matches.

Shearer then insisted that his team was capable of going to Villa Park and winning on the final day of the season, but Newcastle lost and hardly created a single worthwhile chance in the second half. When the team should have been fighting for their lives and busting a gut to create chances, Newcastle went down with a whimper.

I'm not of course entirely blaming Shearer for relegation. Other massive mistakes were made earlier in the season. But the so-called "Messiah" Mr Shearer failed in his own particular task by gaining only 5 points from 8 matches, which simply wasn't good enough at the end of the season.

Geordie supporters, being completely deluded, probably thought that Shearer was going to waltz in, wave a magic wand and suddenly be able to easily win their vital home matches with Portsmouth, Middlesbrough and Fulham to keep them up. But Shearer won just one of those 3 "must win games" and so he has to take his share of responsibility too along with other people for the mistakes that Newcastle made this season.

[DE.]

I was one of a very few people convinced the "new manager effect" would not happen at Newcastle. So it turned out to be. Logic generally pointed to Shearer failing. If we forget for a moment that he had no actual managerial experience (obviously bringing in Dowie, a hit and miss manager, was supposed to counter this), his other "trait" was supposed to be his ability to motivate. Yet, he was unable to motivate his group of millionaires to seemingly give a crap in any of the eight matches he was in charge in. This should come as no surprise - the players are not Newcastle fans (barring Taylor & Carroll), so why would they care? Those who did care were either not good enough or let down by those around them. It was a battle Shearer was never going to win, and I think after the 0-0 with portsmouth he knew this.

The only game they won in their final 8 was against a Boro side who are somehow even worse than they were.

Shearer began coming out with the same tired excuses, about having "3 clear cut chances" at Portsmouth (more like one, and Portsmouth had a few of their own Al) and then had his public bust up with Barton which rocked the boat even more. The "messiah" did not live up to his end of the bargain and did not do what he said he would do. The fans will blame the players, and maybe they're right, but we'll see soon enough if it truly was the players, or whether management is a step Shearer has taken too soon at too high of a level.

[Eddie]

I don't think Shearer did too much wrong, he just had some seriously underperforming and poor players. They did create quite a lot of chances and managed to miss them at an amazing rate, especially when you consider that Owen, Viduka and Martins are all good.

[thenodrog]

I don't think Shearer did too much wrong, he just had some seriously underperforming and poor players. They did create quite a lot of chances and managed to miss them at an amazing rate, especially when you consider that Owen, Viduka and Martins are all good.

Can't quite put my finger on it but imo Shearer is not management material. We know he's not articulate from his punditry, we know also that he's not the brightest bulb on the christmas tree but imo he is not shrewd or perceptive enough and worst of all appears to have maintained a distance / aloofness between himself and the players in the public eye. That is never the way forward to a successful managerial career.

Finally I think we all know that he loves himself more than anything... NUFC included. He will not prove to be their messiah imo.

btw it's being reported that some consortium headed by a banker (sp?) is moving in to take em over ..... and no doubt take Ashleys trousers down and give him a right old financial rogering at the same time I'd wager. Fools and their money eh?

[patrickvalery]

Can't quite put my finger on it but imo Shearer is not management material. We know he's not articulate from his punditry, we know also that he's not the brightest bulb on the christmas tree but imo he is not shrewd or perceptive enough and worst of all appears to have maintained a distance / aloofness between himself and the players in the public eye. That is never the way forward to a successful managerial career.

Finally I think we all know that he loves himself more than anything... NUFC included. He will not prove to be their messiah imo.

Totally agree theno. I simply cannot understand why the Newcastle board have backed him so much. I didn't see the slightest sign of improvement under his stewardship. And what the hell has happened to Joe Kinnear. Poor sod goes under the knife and the next thing the job he was expecting to return to now belongs to a rookie who took the club down whilst in temporary control. Forgive me if this has been explained in this thread. I can't be arsed to scroll back and waste my life reading about another club.

[joey_big_nose]

Totally agree theno. I simply cannot understand why the Newcastle board have backed him so much. I didn't see the slightest sign of improvement under his stewardship. And what the hell has happened to Joe Kinnear. Poor sod goes under the knife and the next thing the job he was expecting to return to now belongs to a rookie who took the club down whilst in temporary control. Forgive me if this has been explained in this thread. I can't be arsed to scroll back and waste my life reading about another club.

Not just the Newcastle board. Our chairman gav him first refusal for the Rovers manager job before Ince.

Shearer does seem a bit like Keane. Quite distanced from the players. But saying that so was Hughes. Actually Hughes seemed colder towards them if anything. Too early to see how Shearer will do, but I have to say my gut feeling is that he will be nothing special either. Doesn't seem to have the tactical appreciation of the game which made Hughes, Allardyce, Moyes, O'Neil a success. To stabalise a side you have to be willing to play ugly to win - Shearer does notseem to believe in that.

[thenodrog]

Not just the Newcastle board. Our chairman gav him first refusal for the Rovers manager job before Ince.

Shearer does seem a bit like Keane. Quite distanced from the players. But saying that so was Hughes. Actually Hughes seemed colder towards them if anything.

I think Hughes was only cold to discussing players in public which is how it should be. The old RFW taught him well. The type that would defend a player to the public and then tear a strip off him in private. In my opinion Shearer is displaying his loyalty to the geordie faithful not his playing staff and that is a recipe for disaster. He above all should know that modern players are mercenaries and not die hard supporters of the club they play for.

[patrickvalery]

Doesn't seem to have the tactical appreciation of the game which made Hughes, Allardyce, Moyes, O'Neil a success. To stabalise a side you have to be willing to play ugly to win - Shearer does notseem to believe in that.

Thats the impression i get. He simply ploughed on with the same tactics even when they were failing him. I suppose it could be argued that he didn't have the time to implement a 'hard to beat' mentality. Plus the fact his defence is shocking. But they just seemed to go without so much as a whimper.

When we were linked with him i must admit it got the nostalgic juices flowing. But i think everyone suspected it wouldn't have been the cleverest appointment. Not a day passes when i don't thank my lucky stars we ended up with Allardyce......eventually.

[thenodrog]

When we were linked with him i must admit it got the nostalgic juices flowing. But i think everyone suspected it wouldn't have been the cleverest appointment.

Try to let your head rule your heart patrick. Shearer would have been a disaster unless hed have been willing to leave his ego in the MoTD studio.

[Eddie]

I think it's a bit difficult to judge just yet because I don't think he ever really felt like he was the manager, nor did he fully give the impression that he was. Until he really accepts the job on a long-term basis I'm not sure how committed to it he all is and that makes it a more difficult situation to assess.

[T4E]

Try to let your head rule your heart patrick. Shearer would have been a disaster unless hed have been willing to leave his ego in the MoTD studio.

Absolutely - and it would have been far far more difficult to sack him than Ince.

In my opinion we'd have gone done under Shearer. Ince wasn't JW's only error in judgement.

[patrickvalery]

Try to let your head rule your heart patrick. Shearer would have been a disaster unless hed have been willing to leave his ego in the MoTD studio.

I don't doubt it for a minute. I had the same feeling about Ince. The chances of failure were high in both cases. Just couldn't ignore the feeling of wonder, ney desire for him to be the returning king and produce successful, free flowing football of which you would talk of to your grand children in years to come. But in reality, if i was in JW's position i'd have played it safe. Allardyce all the way.

Anyway, we needn't worry. Someone else has got to put up with what looks to be a poor appointment. I must admit that i don't really get the egotistical thing though. Boring yes. But i've never felt he was particularly full of himself. Perhaps i'm being blinkered again though.

[tony gale's mic]

Let's just hope the 2008 summer of madness isn't repeated for a long time. It seems like there was something in the air at Ewood to make everyone lose their heads...

[TimmyJimmy]

all very sensible observations, holding my hand up as I was totally convinced that Newcastle would escape, I'd have laid one of my houses on it

Ashley is the root cause I believe, he got rich by being in the right place at the right time and rode a boom. Zero business acumen, you can't fire footy managers as if they were site foreman. Intelligent business men know what they are good at and what they aren't so they surround themselves with good people. How many good people did he surround himself with?

I think he and all geordie fans believe they are somehow a race apart from the rest of us, not sufficient to have their own team that 'could' win something they have to have geordie players, geordie manager and geordie back room staff else it won't feel right. Given they are a massive city with only one team in it they get a bloated sense of their own importance, large crowds are easy when you've no where else to go. Liverpool have 2, Manchester has 2, Birmingham has 2.5, London has lots. That's what you get I suppose when you're left to breath your own fumes.

Shearer, again I'm one who would have welcomed him as a manager here although tinged with a bit of bitterness about the past (alright a lot of bitterness). He would have had a full season and pre season to get things together and not just 8 games. Dalgleish was good in part because of his massive reputation as a player and top players would come to play for him. Maybe Shearer could get get away with being less than perfect as a manager if likewise he's surrounded by the best players?

Will this Championship slapping knock some sense into them, not a bit of it. If they get promoted they will return with renewed vigour and be more self delusional than before. I'm glad they're down and I'll be even more glad if they keep going. It's not nastiness on my part, I don't wish anyone any ill but I'm out of patience with that lot so I just want them to go away and stay away.

Mirror mirror on the wall who's the greatest mill town of them all

[den]

I think he and all geordie fans believe they are somehow a race apart from the rest of us, not sufficient to have their own team that 'could' win something they have to have geordie players, geordie manager and geordie back room staff else it won't feel right.

They were discussing this very point on the radio the other day.

The observation was - why Shearer? Obviously because he's a Geordie. The point they were making, was that they should look for the best manager, not the best Geordie. There are plenty of more experienced managers out there. What experience or qualifications does Shearer have - answer - none. Why did they pick Keegan? - well he was as close to being a geordie as they could find at that time. Sunderland and Newcastle have been linked with Steve Bruce - another Geordie. It seems that the north east fans demand that their managers are chosen from a small band of people who were born within a close proximity of their grounds, or are completely overwhelmed with this feeling of belonging.

No wonder they struggle.

[DE.]

Will this Championship slapping knock some sense into them, not a bit of it. If they get promoted they will return with renewed vigour and be more self delusional than before. I'm glad they're down and I'll be even more glad if they keep going. It's not nastiness on my part, I don't wish anyone any ill but I'm out of patience with that lot so I just want them to go away and stay away.

Agree with this entirely. Being in the Championship will not change their perception at all. If they come back up, they'll simply boast that they've been restructured and are destined for glory under their golden boy, big Al. Should they stay down, they'll just continue to hurl their anger at Ashley until the next owner comes in and gets to enjoy taking the abuse. Ashley deserves what he's gotten, but he's just one part of a very large problem up there.

[rover6]

I wonder if Graeme Souness visits the North-East these days, without disguise...

What a terrible, terrible appointment he was for the Toon.

And the Blackburn fans knew it from day one.

[tony gale's mic]

Shearer, again I'm one who would have welcomed him as a manager here although tinged with a bit of bitterness about the past (alright a lot of bitterness). He would have had a full season and pre season to get things together and not just 8 games. Dalgleish was good in part because of his massive reputation as a player and top players would come to play for him. Maybe Shearer could get get away with being less than perfect as a manager if likewise he's surrounded by the best players?

I can't believe that you're still saying this after what happened this season.

Shearer would have been an awful appointment and anyone with any footballing sense must have known this at the time. Let's hope that Rovers never, ever appoint someone with zero top level (ie PL or excellent Championship record) experience ever again.

Top players came for Dalglish for various reasons, the money of Jack Walker being one, the fact he'd actually won things as a manager before and been part of the greatest side of that era being another.

Once Shearer's lack of experience took us down to the nether regions of the league a la Ince, noone wouldve wanted to come to us.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I can't believe that you're still saying this after what happened this season.

Shearer would have been an awful appointment and anyone with any footballing sense must have known this at the time. Let's hope that Rovers never, ever appoint someone with zero top level (ie PL or excellent Championship record) experience ever again.

Absolutely, Mark Hughes was a complete disaster.

[DE.]

Every so often untested managers can be a success. Hughes and Zola immediately spring to mind, Bruce has done well, too. However, it seems all too easy for ex-pros to stroll into management at the highest levels of our game without needing any experience or recently even any badges. The FA must make it more difficult, and stop allowing managers who haven't got/can't be arsed to complete their pro license to take charge of teams at the top level.

[b12_simon]

Every so often untested managers can be a success. Hughes and Zola immediately spring to mind, Bruce has done well, too. However, it seems all too easy for ex-pros to stroll into management at the highest levels of our game without needing any experience or recently even any badges. The FA must make it more difficult, and stop allowing managers who haven't got/can't be arsed to complete their pro license to take charge of teams at the top level.

IMO this is changing in the light of the Ince and Adams debacles (maybe Southgate, too) - or at least the perception is. We took 2 huge gambles on Mark Hughes and Paul Ince. One gave us a four year golden age and the other almost had us playing a league below the inbreds next season. Portsmouth have also flirted with relegation this season.

Appointing a big name, inexperienced manager is becoming to be seen as a gamble, and a daft gamble. I hope this gives some English managers who are going about it the right way (lots of time in the lower leagues) a chance at the "big time".

BTW: Newcastle's having appointed Shearer did nothing to change what I said - they're run by idiots, for idiots.

[thenodrog]

Shearer, again I'm one who would have welcomed him as a manager here although tinged with a bit of bitterness about the past (alright a lot of bitterness). He would have had a full season and pre season to get things together and not just 8 games. Dalgleish was good in part because of his massive reputation as a player and top players would come to play for him. Maybe Shearer could get get away with being less than perfect as a manager if likewise he's surrounded by the best players?

Shearer is no Dalglish intellectually and would have been an unmitigated disaster imo, I said as much at the time. BUT he does have one thing in common with Kenny....neither would come anywhere near us without JW type wealth to hand.

sorry tgm just read your post saying much the same.

[TimmyJimmy]

I can't believe that you're still saying this after what happened this season.

Shearer would have been an awful appointment and anyone with any footballing sense must have known this at the time. Let's hope that Rovers never, ever appoint someone with zero top level (ie PL or excellent Championship record) experience ever again.

Top players came for Dalglish for various reasons, the money of Jack Walker being one, the fact he'd actually won things as a manager before and been part of the greatest side of that era being another.

Once Shearer's lack of experience took us down to the nether regions of the league a la Ince, noone wouldve wanted to come to us.

Hey you're right, no argument from me, note the use of the word "would" in the first sentence. I would have welcomed him but it would have been another mistake on my part (the other being I thought Newcastle would stay up). You live life and learn. I was also an Ince backer and continued right up to the time he departed, but I was wrong. There is no replacement for experience, knowledge of the game doesn't appear to be enough. Ince and Shearer will at some point in the future (IMO) be good managers - but not now. So let them learn their trade somewhere else and we will stick to the experienced if slightly unfashionable managers like Sam.

On an entirely different topic I have always backed the Trustees to the hilt but I again I think this was a mistake, I've learned a lot this season haven't I.

Re reading this it looks like I'm always wrong so you should put me on ignore if you haven't done so already

[thenodrog]

Hey you're right, no argument from me, note the use of the word "would" in the first sentence. I would have welcomed him but it would have been another mistake on my part (the other being I thought Newcastle would stay up). You live life and learn. I was also an Ince backer and continued right up to the time he departed, but I was wrong. There is no replacement for experience, knowledge of the game doesn't appear to be enough. Ince and Shearer will at some point in the future (IMO) be good managers -

Going for the hat-trick I see timmyj.