[Archived] Sit Down For The Rovers

[Diziet]

That is where people make their big mistake and hooligans (who are invariably cowards) get away with their obnoxious behavior. I have invariably found that if you challenge their conduct in strong and forceful terms they back down and slink away. The very worst that has happened to me in one of these situations is that one or two of the group I challenged gave me a long stare before walking off. Honestly it is as simple as that, and I have tested it out on several occasions over the years. You just have to act first and do all your thinking later.

In two minds about this. Yes I've found that getting into some obnoxious ned's face and telling him to pack it in has worked (at SPL games - never had to try it at a Rovers game). A lot of the time the folk sitting round about are just waiting for one person to get things started then they'll back you up especially if the person in question is doing something generally rather than individually offensive eg. racist chanting.

Then again I am a 5' 2" woman who needs a walking stick to get around so I generally find that even drunken and aggressive lads do not want to belt me one whereas they might well punch a bloke.

However, having said that, I also think the level of violence escalates faster nowadays than it used to, and people are far more likely to resort to weapons. Ten years or so ago you'd get a mouthful of abuse and maybe a slap - nowadays some young lads are liable to pull a knife out for half nothing.

Therefore, distinguishing hooliganish bravado from a genuine desire for violence is pretty important... most football altercations will come into the first category, but away from the game I'd be a lot more cautious.

[roversmum]

Trouble is, whatever the provocation you can't lay into them with an umbrella or indeed clip the little blighters round the ear these days or even shout at them; you'll get hauled off and (at the least) formally cautioned by Mr Plod.

[RevidgeBlue]

'SIT DOWN FOR THE ROVERS'

Enough said

Come on SG it's only a thread title - derived from the fact this type of idiot also tend to sing "Stand up and support your team" insinuating that by doing so they're the only proper supporters in the place.

Like it or not stadia are currently all seater. You wouldn't go to the Cinema and stand up for 90 minutes throughout a film would you? Similar sort of principle.

The Clubs and Authorities need to start becoming more consistent though. If John Newsham is going to haul Rovers fans from the Blackburn End into his offfice for persistent standing then it's about time Rovers took the lead and there was a blanket and immediate ban put on ManUre and Liverpool fans for the same reason.

Will never happen though, we'd rather take the money. Completely double standards.

[Darth Paul]

There was a little bit of grief in the BBE Lower, right behind the goal on Boxing Day. The first 12 rows or so were all stood up, a domino effect of those in front of them refusing to sit down despite being asked.

One loudmouth decided to single out my father for abuse as he couldnt see, despite my Dad having the choice of standing or missing the game. (He has already asked those in front to sit down several times with no success).

A little bit of handbags ensued before my Dad went to complain to the nearby steward as there was nothing he could do. The steward could hardly speak English and the copper next to him said it wasnt his problem. How can you win?

[RevidgeBlue]

If you think I am exagerating Theno, I can assure you I am not. There was one famous occasion in 1972 when I was sitting in the Darwen Bus on the Boulevade waiting for it to depart when I became aware of a great commotion going on outside. I looked out of the bus window and saw 5 youths laying into one young lad who had gone down on the ground and the rest were kicking and beating him. I jumped up and off the bus yelling to the other passengers to come and help. As soon as I got to the scene I just started lashing out with my umbrella and in seconds all 5 of them had fled. The lad I had helped just got up and looked at me and then he too made off in the opposite direction. I just got back on the bus with my now bent and smashed umbrella, and resumed my seat. Several of the passengers were shouting out "well done" and I remember one young chap saying "you did well there" I just turned and said in a very loud voice "Yes, but you didn't did you?".

That is the honest truth and it was the talk of Darwen for quite a while. There were numerous other occasions that I could tell you of, including one on the Riverside at Ewood in the early 70's but I will not bore you further.

My point is that if everybody stood up to these idiots and thugs they would very soon disappear from the scene, and life would return to the way it used to be pre-1970's when the whole of society refused to tolerate or allow this yobbish behaviour. It only happens now because we the public ALLOW it to happen.

That's all well and good 34 years ago Fife but I think you're being more than a little harsh criticising in this instance without actually being there. And I also resent your inference that the situation was somehow in part my fault.

The difference with your scenario above is that you didn't have to potentially spend the next 90 minutes sat next to the the attackers!

I've thought about whether we should have confronted these lads quite a lot over the last few days in the light of your criticism and with the benefit of hindsight if we'd known the stewards were going to be so ineffective we might well have said something. As it was, at the start of the match, these guys behaviour was such that we were perfectly entitled to think that if the stewards were doing their job properly these guys would have been lobbed out within five or ten minutes of kick off.

Even so I'm still not that uncomfortable with the decision to say nothing because:

1) It would have turned an already unpleasant atmosphere into an intolerable one - potentially for the best part of 90 mins

2) I'm sure that as with the stewards if they had taken any notice at all, it would have been for a couple of minutes then it would have been back to square one.

3) If it had gone pear shaped and ended up in a scuffle, no doubt we'd have got chucked out as well for our troubles !!

4) Unlikely I know but there's always that one per cent chance that one or more of them is carrying a weapon of some description.

[Fife Rover]

That's all well and good 34 years ago Fife but I think you're being more than a little harsh criticising in this instance without actually being there. And I also resent your inference that the situation was somehow in part my fault.

The difference with your scenario above is that you didn't have to potentially spend the next 90 minutes sat next to the the attackers!

I've thought about whether we should have confronted these lads quite a lot over the last few days in the light of your criticism and with the benefit of hindsight if we'd known the stewards were going to be so ineffective we might well have said something. As it was, at the start of the match, these guys behaviour was such that we were perfectly entitled to think that if the stewards were doing their job properly these guys would have been lobbed out within five or ten minutes of kick off.

Even so I'm still not that uncomfortable with the decision to say nothing because:

1) It would have turned an already unpleasant atmosphere into an intolerable one - potentially for the best part of 90 mins

2) I'm sure that as with the stewards if they had taken any notice at all, it would have been for a couple of minutes then it would have been back to square one.

3) If it had gone pear shaped and ended up in a scuffle, no doubt we'd have got chucked out as well for our troubles !!

4) Unlikely I know but there's always that one per cent chance that one or more of them is carrying a weapon of some description.

There seems to be some confusion here Rev. For a start in the quote that you have quoted I was replying to Theno, not you. And after much back searching I found your original that I replied to. NOW referring to THAT reply of mine: I was not intending any personal critiscism of anybody; my intention was to generalise on the way that I have found to work for me in the past. The kind of situation I had in mind was any that might arise in any place at any time. I was certainly not even thinking about your particular situation. However If you found it offensive I apologise, not for what I said but for the way it has been construed. I should have thought more deeply and made sure that it could not have been understood as you have taken it.

[John Howarth]

Come on SG it's only a thread title - derived from the fact this type of idiot also tend to sing "Stand up and support your team" insinuating that by doing so they're the only proper supporters in the place.

Like it or not stadia are currently all seater. You wouldn't go to the Cinema and stand up for 90 minutes throughout a film would you? Similar sort of principle.

The Clubs and Authorities need to start becoming more consistent though. If John Newsham is going to haul Rovers fans from the Blackburn End into his offfice for persistent standing then it's about time Rovers took the lead and there was a blanket and immediate ban put on ManUre and Liverpool fans for the same reason.

Will never happen though, we'd rather take the money. Completely double standards.

The problem of away supporters standing throughout the game will never be sorted as long as the Rovers officials continue with their containment policy. Their policy is not to upset 3,000 or even 7,500 away supporters continually standing whilst they can contain them in their "seats". It is simply down to a numbers game and the stewards refuse to even actually ask the fans to sit down. A token gesture of an announcement is made which is usually received by laughter from the away fans and of course to totally ignore the request. Just quite how they get away with the safety factor is quite beyond me. I have discussed this at length with John Newsham and they are fully aware of the shortcomings of the problem of standing up but are quite happy to ignore it as long as the fans are contained.

As we are aware, other grounds take action on away fans standing but when did you ever see a steward at Ewood Park actually speak to an away supporter to ask them to sit down. However, if an overkeen fan from the CIS stand decides to vent his frustration at a referees assistant, the chief steward of that sector is quickly seen marching his band of "heavy" security men to control the mini- uprising.

You are quite right Rev about double standards though, because as we know, if a small group of home supporters decide to stand up, they are quickly spoken to.

[RevidgeBlue]

There seems to be some confusion here Rev. For a start in the quote that you have quoted I was replying to Theno, not you. And after much back searching I found your original that I replied to. NOW referring to THAT reply of mine: I was not intending any personal critiscism of anybody; my intention was to generalise on the way that I have found to work for me in the past. The kind of situation I had in mind was any that might arise in any place at any time. I was certainly not even thinking about your particular situation. However If you found it offensive I apologise, not for what I said but for the way it has been construed. I should have thought more deeply and made sure that it could not have been understood as you have taken it.

Yep, you replied to me originally which sparked this little branch of the discussion.

Thanks for that and no offence taken.

Like tnr says, after hearing of your tales of derring do, I can't get this image of John Steed out of my head whenever you post now!.

[thenodrog]

Like tnr says, after hearing of your tales of derring do, I can't get this image of John Steed out of my head whenever you post now!.

It's gone now Rev......... I've replaced it with a mental piccy of Fife as Grandma in the Giles cartoons.

[Fife Rover]

It's gone now Rev......... I've replaced it with a mental piccy of Fife as Grandpa in the Giles cartoons.

That's more like it!

[RevidgeBlue]

It's gone now Rev......... I've replaced it with a mental piccy of Fife as Grandma in the Giles cartoons.

Sorry Fife!

[Paul]

I always read this type of thread with interest and after our once a season away game yesterday want to make a couple of observations.

We sat, as you look at the pitch. on the RHS just on the edge of the bulk of Rovers support. Below us was a group of young lads, 15/16 I guess, looked like "townies" to me, whose only vocal contribution was "£2 an hour" and "Just like watching The Bill." Behind me three guys in their mid-thirties, one of whom spent the entire match informing us all "Burnley fans shag their sisters in the bath" while banging an empty seat (The drummer has more rhythm). On the very front row two lads (one dressed as Scooby), three girls, the two lads stood throughout the entire game right in front of the stewards. I suppose there were 5/6 stewards on the concourse below the front row.

I was struck by the lack of consistency from the stewards. In the main body of Rovers support two fans had a heated row, one was standing all the time and the fan behind him objected. The police chucked out the first guy. Why then allow Scooby to stand throughout the entire match?

The townies amused themselves by abusing the stewards from time to time, especially when the stewards went to sort out another group of standers much further up the stand. Again why the police went to these fans when Scooby was stiil stood up I don't know. The townies were asked to sit, which they did, much to my surprise.

As for the seat banger? Thanks mate!

[Fife Rover]

I always read this type of thread with interest and after our once a season away game yesterday want to make a couple of observations.

We sat, as you look at the pitch. on the RHS just on the edge of the bulk of Rovers support. Below us was a group of young lads, 15/16 I guess, looked like "townies" to me, whose only vocal contribution was "£2 an hour" and "Just like watching The Bill." Behind me three guys in their mid-thirties, one of whom spent the entire match informing us all "Burnley fans shag their sisters in the bath" while banging an empty seat (The drummer has more rhythm). On the very front row two lads (one dressed as Scooby), three girls, the two lads stood throughout the entire game right in front of the stewards. I suppose there were 5/6 stewards on the concourse below the front row.

I was struck by the lack of consistency from the stewards. In the main body of Rovers support two fans had a heated row, one was standing all the time and the fan behind him objected. The police chucked out the first guy. Why then allow Scooby to stand throughout the entire match?

The townies amused themselves by abusing the stewards from time to time, especially when the stewards went to sort out another group of standers much further up the stand. Again why the police went to these fans when Scooby was stiil stood up I don't know. The townies were asked to sit, which they did, much to my surprise.

As for the seat banger? Thanks mate!

Paul: You have just very nicely described the main reason why so many once die-hard fans now no longer go at all, or alternatively those that do go, choose to sit in the JW upper or anywhere other than the BBE. In my own case I choose the JW upper partly for the superb view, but mainly because no matter how much how I love the Rovers I WILL NOT sit amongst drunken thugs and hooligans who have not got an ounce of consideration for others in their bodies. And if you or anyone else dares to challenge their behaviour, what do you get? At the very least a mouthful of filth and invective and get told to "lighten up, we are only having a bit of fun".

Not a sign of them realising or even caring that their "bit of fun " is completely ruining the match experience for the decent fans around them. :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

[thenodrog]

Paul: You have just very nicely described the main reason why so many once die-hard fans now no longer go at all, or alternatively those that do go, choose to sit in the JW upper or anywhere other than the BBE. In my own case I choose the JW upper partly for the superb view, but mainly because no matter how much how I love the Rovers I WILL NOT sit amongst drunken thugs and hooligans who have not got an ounce of consideration for others in their bodies. And if you or anyone else dares to challenge their behaviour, what do you get? At the very least a mouthful of filth and invective and get told to "lighten up, we are only having a bit of fun".

Not a sign of them realising or even caring that their "bit of fun " is completely ruining the match experience for the decent fans around them. :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

Hear Hear.

[MCMC1875]

Couldn't this be tackled by a stand with unreserved seating eg the Blackburn end?

[AggyBlue]

Paul: You have just very nicely described the main reason why so many once die-hard fans now no longer go at all,

I consider myself a 'die hard' fan. What was described was nothing compared to what it was like 20/30 years ago. I think there's too many people gone soft in their old age and forgotten what it's like to be a teenager. Eveyones attitude these days is 'Zero tolerance'.

[Paul]

Just to be clear my observation was intended to be about the inconsistency in the stewarding, it occurred to me this leads to problems for everyone. Scooby didn't misbehave at any point, other than standing I suppose. The townies just contented themselves with "£2 an hour." To complain about their behaviour, which primarily was only boorish would have been unfair. I have to admit I thought about speaking to the seat banger but there were three of them and if a row had developed Tom would have got upset. Quite why someone in their mid-thirties with a voice like a fog horn has to bang a seat is beyond me.

The major point being the police and stewards ejected or spoke to some fans who stood up, others despite being in full view of the stewards were allowed to to stand all game. I feel the stewarding has to be even handed, and can understand why some fans might get frustrated if this isn't the case.

[Gav]

I consider myself a 'die hard' fan. What was described was nothing compared to what it was like 20/30 years ago. I think there's too many people gone soft in their old age and forgotten what it's like to be a teenager. Eveyones attitude these days is 'Zero tolerance'.

Absolutely spot on.

Whilst I sympathise with incidents such as the ones mentioned it’s nothing compared to 20/30yrs ago as AggyBlue says.

I'd much rather have a few lads singing 'anti burnley songs' (I use that term loosely), than racist chanting or Alex Williams the Man City keeper having his penalty area at the Blackburn end full of bananas, I could go on.......

Football fans in the main today are extremely well behaved I'm sure you'll agree........

[Jordan]

For the first time in several years I was stood for the whole game without been told to sit down once at Wgan. Granted I was on the very back row and I now make a point of trying to get to the back if there are spare seats so that I don't block anyones view.

There was a steward stood next to me and I suppose he could have told me to sit but I was doing no harm and I imagine he just used his common sense. It would of been nice if these other fans who insisted on standing made there way to the back of the stand as everyone would be a winner.

I aprichiate thats not an ideal solution and it is very rare that away clubs will allow you to do that.

I can see this from Paul's point of view as it annoys me when the Chavs at the front of the Blackburn End insist of standing for he majority of the game and then when I stand up so I can see I feel guilty that I am blocking the persons view behind.

[revolutionrock!]

while banging an empty seat (The drummer has more rhythm).

i very much doubt that that drummer has to go hes certainly getting om my nerves now

[the original david brent]

Went to wigan and was with the group of standers much further back than where scooby was. The stewards came and spoke to use only because one of my mates had sneaked beer into the ground. Silly thing to do. He was arrested and taken to cells etc. Harsh but its besides the point. The stewards didnt tell us off for standing. Fair play to the stewards, I thought they used their common sense with regard to the standing issue. It was a local derby and they accepted that groups of lads like to stand and get behind their team.

With regard to those of you objected to people standing at Wigan, or singing anti burnley songs, or shouting etc, why didnt you move seats? There were massive empty blocks in that away stand, probably about 2000 empty seats.

I also think if people consider 'moronic' behaviour to be scooby and his bunch of harmless little cretins standing at wigan away they need to get out more. Perhaps go to away games with Man utd, celtic, burnley, leeds or for that matter many other football clubs in England and abroad. They might just realise the rovers away support is not as moronic as they think!

[Hasta]

With regard to those of you objected to people standing at Wigan, or singing anti burnley songs, or shouting etc, why didnt you move seats? There were massive empty blocks in that away stand, probably about 2000 empty seats.

Or more sensibly, if the vast majority of people want to sit on the seat that they've paid for then why don't the standing minority move either to the back as Jordan did or to the side?

[AggyBlue]

Or more sensibly, if the vast majority of people want to sit on the seat that they've paid for then why don't the standing minority move either to the back as Jordan did or to the side?

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of our away support would prefer to stand.

I would but don't get the option, it would be nice to be given the choice.

[thenodrog]

Went to wigan and was with the group of standers much further back than where scooby was. The stewards came and spoke to use only because one of my mates had sneaked beer into the ground. Silly thing to do. He was arrested and taken to cells etc. Harsh but its besides the point. The stewards didnt tell us off for standing. Fair play to the stewards, I thought they used their common sense with regard to the standing issue. It was a local derby and they accepted that groups of lads like to stand and get behind their team.

With regard to those of you objected to people standing at Wigan, or singing anti burnley songs, or shouting etc, why didnt you move seats? There were massive empty blocks in that away stand, probably about 2000 empty seats.

I also think if people consider 'moronic' behaviour to be scooby and his bunch of harmless little cretins standing at wigan away they need to get out more. Perhaps go to away games with Man utd, celtic, burnley, leeds or for that matter many other football clubs in England and abroad. They might just realise the rovers away support is not as moronic as they think!

Bloody obvious that at least one of em is.

[bellamy11]

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of our away support would prefer to stand.

I would but don't get the option, it would be nice to be given the choice.

I'd be surprised. If Man United, Liverpool etc away supporters have proven one thing, it's that if they all want to stand then they can. I know there are more of them but stewards can't get 300 people to sit down any more than they can get 3,000. If Rovers away fans were all hell bent on standing they would. I would say it was more the minority.

As for the "you can just move" argument. I see it like smokers and non-smokers. You've paid for your seat under the assumption that you can sit in it. If people want to stand then surely it is them who should be moving because they are voluntarily forfeiting their sitting priviledge. I find the "if you don't like people standing then move" argument as inconsiderate as the "if you don't like smoke then bugger off somewhere else" argument.