[Archived] Watford 2-1 Rovers

[American]

It is Luton Town, not Chelsea.

[Scotty]

Good grief, what a clown you are.

[todd_could_take_tyson]

Scotty is spot on, Derbyshire got knocked off the ball quite a few times by Luton, and in the premiership he's looked too lightweight and this is why sparky wont start him in the league. He needs to bulk up like Bentley did over the summer, Bentley bulking up and becoming stronger has helped his game no end, last season he was getting bashed about and getting bullied by opposing players.

[blue phil]

It is Luton Town, not Chelsea.

I take Scotty's point that Derbyshire at times does look like he could do with bulking up a bit but let's face facts . Give me a bit of speed and enthusiasm and a willingness to beat the ofside trap any day over someone who looks like he just doesn't give a damn half the time .

Having a physical presence doesn't mean much if you don't use that presence to worry the opposition . Nonda against Chelsea ? Derbyshire and McCarthy are a must for me .....with Roberts as the "impact" sub if/when he's fit enough . Nonda's isn't interested enough or willing enough to stretch the defence ...how much time should we give him before we accept the inevitable ?

[RevidgeBlue]

Good grief, what a clown you are.

I'm not the one spouting endless drivel:

"Derbyshire isn't strong enough to start" (Three goals in the four games he's started?)

"Mokoena was worthy of a new contract"

And I'm the one that "can't judge a player"

Looking forward to your next gem.

[Ozz]

Right you two stop it or I'll bang your heads together!

Derbyshire looks like a decent player so far, nothing more nothing less.

Mokoena is an athlete, good at breaking up attacks which he does against weaker teams, but is easily circumvented due to his poor mobility against the classier sides (the top four). And cannot pass to save his life.

[Fife Rover]

Right you two stop it or I'll bang your heads together!

Derbyshire looks like a decent player so far, nothing more nothing less.

Mokoena is an athlete, good at breaking up attacks which he does against weaker teams, but is easily circumvented due to his poor mobility against the classier sides (the top four). And cannot pass to save his life.

Well actually Oz he can! If you look closely at the early part of the first half today you will see that he twice puts good long passes forward from around the centre line area of the field to put Derbs away on a scamper for goal only to be twice flagged offside. Also in both cases it is very suspect whether he was offside and in both cases the comentators had a debate about it. Derbs would have been clean through on his own with only the keeper to beat in both cases.

[joey_big_nose]

I would be amazed if Derbyshire doesn't start against chelsea if we play a 442. The only way he will miss out is if we go for a 451 imo. We cannot leave out players who are scoring goals.

Him and mccarthy are quite a potent combination, derbs pace creates space for Benni to use his skill.

First player from the academy for my money who genuinely looks like he will make it since Duff and Dunn.

[tcj_jones]

I know that Derbyshire has scored a fair few goals now and has been making some very intelligent runs, but I just don't think he has what it takes to succeed in the premiership.

I thought that Stead made some of the best runs I've seen from a striker in years, but he failed pretty badly.

Derbyshire just looks too small and light weight. I think he has done welkl to score headers, but this won't happen on a regular basis. He also gets shrugged off the ball too easy.

[Eddie]

Agree with that tcj. He's done well and I'll be very happy if I am proved wrong, but I simply can't see him regularly scoring goals at the top level and I don't think the rest of his game brings enough to the team to justify him getting a place ahead of Nonda or Roberts (when fit).

[ewoodblue]

I know that Derbyshire has scored a fair few goals now and has been making some very intelligent runs, but I just don't think he has what it takes to succeed in the premiership.

I thought that Stead made some of the best runs I've seen from a striker in years, but he failed pretty badly.

Derbyshire just looks too small and light weight. I think he has done welkl to score headers, but this won't happen on a regular basis. He also gets shrugged off the ball too easy.

Stead will most probably be playing for Sheff United,next Saturday.

Would be nice to see him again,I'll never forget his vital goals that pulled us out of trouble.

Has long as he doesn't score against us.

[Scotty]

Agree with that tcj. He's done well and I'll be very happy if I am proved wrong, but I simply can't see him regularly scoring goals at the top level and I don't think the rest of his game brings enough to the team to justify him getting a place ahead of Nonda or Roberts (when fit).

Yet. I think he's got a real chance of making it in the future, I just don't think he's good enough to start at the moment. However, if he performs like he did today against a Premiership team I'll gladly eat my words.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Agree with that tcj. He's done well and I'll be very happy if I am proved wrong, but I simply can't see him regularly scoring goals at the top level and I don't think the rest of his game brings enough to the team to justify him getting a place ahead of Nonda or Roberts (when fit).

Why can't we just let the lad enjoy the moment ?

The lad has pace - not lightening, but enough to put defenders under pressure. Most importantly - he has continued to score goals at whichever level he has played at.

I am not saying he is our new saviour - I remain to be convinced that he has the talent of Duff or Dunn. BUT - players who can get into goal scoring positions, and put the ball away on regular occasions are a rare and expensive thing. I would never say that Michael Owen is the most gifted player in the world - but he does have the knack of getting on the end of chances. Please don't think I am comparing Derbs to Owen - but I hope you see the parallel.

The one thing that can't be disputed - is that IMO - each game he has played, he has shown a general progression in his play. If this continues he may just make it. Also, as a team, we look far more balanced with somebody like Derbyshire stretching the opposition for pace at the back.

[RevidgeBlue]

I know I'm biased in favour of local talent and make no apologies whatsoever for it, but by the same token I think Derbyshire is suffering from "local lad syndrome"

If he was 25 and we'd signed him for 1m or even 5m from outside and was performing like this everyone would be absolutely raving about him.

But because he's 20 and out of the Academy and happens to be scoring goals for fun people seem to have to find some other excuse to knock him, can't shoot, not strong enough, not as good as he should be at that age etc.

I think we've got a real player on our hands because he seems to be able to create/get on the end of numerous chances every game, on that basis even missing a few he's going to be a prolific scorer. I can't see a problem with him starting games, his stamina doesn't seem to be an issue, just being a bit steadier in front of goal on occasion. That should improve with more time in the first team.

A middle view is probably that he's probably exceeded Sparky's wildest expectations thus far, but five or six swallows do not necessarily a summer make. (Stead) If he can maintain his current rate of progress however, that viewpoint may have to be revised.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I think we've got a real player on our hands because he seems to be able to create/get on the end of numerous chances every game, on that basis even missing a few he's going to be a prolific scorer.

I think that statement just about sums up Andrew Coles career - and he didn't do too bad did he

[American]

I take Scotty's point that Derbyshire at times does look like he could do with bulking up a bit but let's face facts . Give me a bit of speed and enthusiasm and a willingness to beat the ofside trap any day over someone who looks like he just doesn't give a damn half the time .

Having a physical presence doesn't mean much if you don't use that presence to worry the opposition . Nonda against Chelsea ? Derbyshire and McCarthy are a must for me .....with Roberts as the "impact" sub if/when he's fit enough . Nonda's isn't interested enough or willing enough to stretch the defence ...how much time should we give him before we accept the inevitable ?

I'd prefer that speed and enthusiasm for the last 20-30 minutes of the match against tired defenders at this point in his career. His finishing is great, I'd say at this point he's the second best finisher of our forwards.

[philipl]

I think Rev's post about Derbs is absolutely spot on.

The more I am seeing of this lad the more I like what I see.

My complete conversion to the Derbyshire cause came yesterday when we had him and Jeffers on the pitch together- both lightweight pacy forwards. Derbyshire was different class from Jeffers in terms of movement, positioning and threat.

Whilst he is having this extremely successful introduction to Prem level football, he should be played as much as Hughes thinbks his body can take. Derbs was anonymous-ish against Arsenal but still got into position to miss a couple of sitters. Will be very interesting to see how he learns from that experience of playing top class CL opposition as I very much hope he starts against Chelsea who have a back line that is slightly less mobile than Arsenal's.

[thenodrog]

I'm with Scotty in a way here I think. Nonda starting a match and using his physical strength to tire defenders makes Derbyshire's (and also Jeffers) game more effective when coming on for the last 20 mins. Saying that Roberts will imo do that job better than Nonda.

Remember out last super sub btw? Shefki offered something different and his lungious presence changed many matches but he was awful if played from the start.

I know that to compare Kuqi and Derbyshire is comical but the key to their impact on matches is their work rate and enthusiasm..... and that costs nothing! Dickov and Speedie too had that quality. Compare them to the likes of Yorke, Blake, Bothroyd and frequently Andy Cole too. Playing football whether as an amateur or a pro is fantastic and I simply cannot equate with players who show no enthusiasm.

[den]

But because he's 20 and out of the Academy and happens to be scoring goals for fun people seem to have to find some other excuse to knock him, can't shoot, not strong enough, not as good as he should be at that age etc.

If someone thinks that i.e, he can't shoot, is that knocking him, or is it simply an opinion?

[cloggyjimmybrfc]

typical fickle rovers fans...if its an opinion or not den(and i know its not your thoughts),its just plain nick picking..mind you some folk on here have got it in for whoevers playing well or not..matt derbyshire is streets ahead of nonda,who as had his chance now so let him sit on the bench and let the 20 year old maestro show him how it should be done.roberts should be ahead of nonda when hes fit..so in my book theres only one way nondas going?.....

[rover6]

I think the point that Rev was trying to make there is that some of the people picking holes in Derbyshire's game are stolidly (and blind) defenders of other less-than-perfect players (anyone spring to mind...?)

Now, Derbyshire is not the finished package and he has a lot to improve upon - and I can fully see the argument that he should not start the next few games. But it is just sad to see the inconsistency of people. Hughes signings, for some, are off-limits for objective criticism but youngsters and Souey signings are game.

[Fife Rover]

I know I'm biased in favour of local talent and make no apologies whatsoever for it, but by the same token I think Derbyshire is suffering from "local lad syndrome"

If he was 25 and we'd signed him for 1m or even 5m from outside and was performing like this everyone would be absolutely raving about him.

But because he's 20 and out of the Academy and happens to be scoring goals for fun people seem to have to find some other excuse to knock him, can't shoot, not strong enough, not as good as he should be at that age etc.

I think we've got a real player on our hands because he seems to be able to create/get on the end of numerous chances every game, on that basis even missing a few he's going to be a prolific scorer. I can't see a problem with him starting games, his stamina doesn't seem to be an issue, just being a bit steadier in front of goal on occasion. That should improve with more time in the first team.

A middle view is probably that he's probably exceeded Sparky's wildest expectations thus far, but five or six swallows do not necessarily a summer make. (Stead) If he can maintain his current rate of progress however, that viewpoint may have to be revised.

Yes I agree with all of that Rev. I would add that IMO Derbs is a NATURAL footballer; not a MANUFACTURED footballer. He is one of the rare talents that needs to be carefully handled so it does not get lost. By this I mean that there is a danger (not saying it WILL happen) that if we increase his stamina and physique too much, he will lose some of his pace and natural ability. I say let him play games at the top level and learn naturally how to handle it. He is not the first lightweight star in the making by a very long way.

Remember that lot's of people in the game at the time were writing off a very young Tom Finney as having no chance of success because of his lack of height and weight. We all know how that prediction went wrong don't we.

[cloggyjimmybrfc]

I think the point that Rev was trying to make there is that some of the people picking holes in Derbyshire's game are stolidly (and blind) defenders of other less-than-perfect players (anyone spring to mind...?)

Now, Derbyshire is not the finished package and he has a lot to improve upon - and I can fully see the argument that he should not start the next few games. But it is just sad to see the inconsistency of people. Hughes signings, for some, are off-limits for objective criticism but youngsters and Souey signings are game.

i take your point hes not the finished article rovers6,but hes far more " finished" than nonda is,and yes sparks will probably be "introducing" matty slowly,but surely he must start some of the games where sparks might think hes tailor-made (tugs spring to mind).and roberts as to start ahead of nonda when fit.

[RevidgeBlue]

By this I mean that there is a danger (not saying it WILL happen) that if we increase his stamina and physique too much, he will lose some of his pace and natural ability. I say let him play games at the top level and learn naturally how to handle it. He is not the first lightweight star in the making by a very long way.

I agree with that entirely. I hope we don't get him on the weights too much because if we do he'll become more cumbersome and lose some of his natural pace.

Derbyshire's physique, movement and the way he goes haring off after the ball remind me a bit of the young Ian Rush, (without him being as deadly in front of goal yet, obviously)

[thenodrog]

Remember that lot's of people in the game at the time were writing off a very young Tom Finney as having no chance of success because of his lack of height and weight.

"Remember"!!! How could we? Just who do you expect to remember that Fife? Tom Finney signed for PNE about 70 flippin years ago!

...... you're not starting that old age rambling malarcky are you?