[Archived] Three Cheers For John Williams

[philipl]

'drog, why is ES stupid?

There has been a steady stream of posts pointing out that there is a small but increasing number of Asian faces at Ewood supporting the Rovers which I am sure you are delighted to see and doing everything you can to encourage others from the community to come along as well.

At the same time I bet you are doing everything you can to discourage the traditional support from using words like Paki or singing offensive songs which might discourage such people from coming to Ewood.

Back on subject, If Rovers do price below Burnley and PNE, it will have a marginal impact in bringing occasional supporters in from those areas who might thenm become regulars as happened during the Kenny era.

However, we would suffer a double whammy if we go down. Worse football for higher prices.

[Paul]

If this season has taught us anything it is that the asian population appears to be only attracted to the Man Utd match.

You sit in the Riverside? I can report there is an increase in the number of Asian supporters in the Family Stand. Now this is not huge but it is regular and noticeable. I'm sure there is an element of "fans" of all backgrounds who turn up to watch Utd.

First it's great to see JW and the club addressing the problem in public, someone has to take a lead and have the balls to admit the truth. We are never going to see men like Scudamore admit the PL is very poor entertainment. Never lose site of the fact Scudamore's salary is directly linked to the revenue he generates from TV deals. This man earns his living selling OUR game's soul to the media.

Lower prices are excellent news for all of us who attend games. Will it increase gates? I hope so but doubt it. The PL, not Blackburn Rovers, has managed to alienate tens of thousands of supporters, once a customer is lost persuading them to return is very difficult. (I had a poor experience with a company called expansys.com yesterday - I'll never buy there again and happily tell anyone they are totally unreliable). Back to the point though, the pricing initiative is great news but what will be done to address the issues why tickets are seen as over-priced?

Too much football on TV

Illegal pub broadcasts

Over-exposed, over-hyped league

Uncompetitive league

Lack of players the fans can identify

Players' salaries

Managers who spout garbage

The PL has become so focued on the TV audience, so blinded by the money available from the media, that it has forgotten who the true fans and customers are. Football fans have long said we are the life-blood of the game. We always believed it, we knew it. For donkey's years the clubs ignored this, now the fans are being proved right. The PL chose to ignore the football fan, and now the football fan is chosing to ignore the PL. You reap what you sow.

I'll be delighted if the pricing initiative works but I don't believe it will have any noticeable impact unless the many other issues in the game are addressed. It's not so long ago twelve households in our village used to empty out around 2.00pm on a Saturday. These days it's two.

We no longer go to away games because of cost, and we have other things we do instead. That's unlikely to change now.

[Ewood Spark]

That's a very valid point in this discussion ES, and indeed one that is very relevant to any discussion re: home support at Ewood Park.

btw Have you ever considered that your line of argument is mimicking that made famous by Sir Norman Tebbitt? Hero of yours is he?

Keep it up, your own input as usual is saving me the job of highlighting your stupidity.

I do think that any initiative like this will fail unless it is a combined effort. And even more credibility will be afforded to it in the press and media if it is strongly supported by the perceived big clubs.

Gosh Theno you're right... it never occured to me that they might only attend away games!

[daveoftherovers]

Good on the club and good on JW, I see he is now being joined and I note that a good number of clubs supporters are now getting stuck into their clubs to do the same, it only takes 1 guy like JW to stand up and be counted, most people don't want to be the first, but they are now happy to join in.

I don't see a bad side to more people at Ewood and I applaud JW, I'm proud that our club was the one to kill this worrying trend of ripping off the fans and focusing purely on the TV.

I see all but 5/6 clubs in the PL engaging fully and then the others will have to.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Not a single word of support for Williams from any other club as far as I can tell.

[Ricky]

I have a season ticket for Sale Sharks. It cost me £216 and I have excellent seats right behind the posts in the Cheadle stand. For that ticket I get to watch the current premiership champions play 11 home league matches, at least 3 heineken cup matches, three EDF cup matches and a powergen game or two.

If I'm not mistaken Rovers season tickets started at £270 for this season. That's for 19 home games and 2 free UEFA Cup games so far. Also there was the added bonus of a two further UEFA Cup games for £15 for seson ticket holders. So for £285 you would have had 23 games, surely that makes it a similar value to the egg chasing ticket.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I'll be delighted if the pricing initiative works but I don't believe it will have any noticeable impact unless the many other issues in the game are addressed. It's not so long ago twelve households in our village used to empty out around 2.00pm on a Saturday. These days it's two.

Paul this is exactly the point you and myself and others have been trying to make for a while and what Gav is highlighting on his post.

Theno - you raise some valid points but your arguments again just seem to to smack towards its all about the money, but then turn about face and the apathy of the Rovers fans (correctly).

As Paul states quite correctly in my book above, and has been mentioned many a time on here,'The PL, not Blackburn Rovers, has managed to alienate tens of thousands of supporters, once a customer is lost persuading them to return is very difficult.'

I'll say it again until I am blue and white in the face -this is what the clubs in general need to get their head around as reducing prices is all very well, but if people can't be bothered (ie they have lost the enthusiasm) or don't want to go anymore they won't even it it was free (something I do believe TND you have commented upon before?)

Interestingly enough, had a discussion with a lady here at work this morning who is a S/T holder at Rochdale (yes good old Spotland)- and the general agreement was its not all about cost but turning the game back into a Sport again rather than an overhyped sanitised Big Brother

[ABBEY]

BTW has anybody stopped to think about the repercussions of this fully other than simply beyond their own pockets?

nope...selfish or not ,i rather like having has much free cash in my wallet/account as i can.I give to to csa scumscroteshitbags a huge chunk of my monthly pennies (as no doubt a few do on here ),I have a bloody great big car loan( my ex ripped me off and there was nothing i could do but take a huge loan out for a poxy motor),I have bills etc.....so its not simply looking beyond my pockets..its a case i will take every penny saving I can and stuff it!!!

this season if prices had gone up I would be a non season ticket holder for the 1st time in my life .

What I did see at Eastlands last week ......... two young asian lads bedecked in the famous Blue and White two rows in front of me.

they sit behind me on the blackburn end..there good lads and always have a chat.(if they the 2 they showed on the tv.

tickets are seen as over-priced?

Too much football on TV

Illegal pub broadcasts

Over-exposed, over-hyped league

Uncompetitive league

Lack of players the fans can identify

Players' salaries

Managers who spout garbage

The PL has become so focued on the TV audience, so blinded by the money available from the media, that it has forgotten who the true fans and customers are. Football fans have long said we are the life-blood of the game. We always believed it, we knew it. For donkey's years the clubs ignored this, now the fans are being proved right. The PL chose to ignore the football fan, and now the football fan is chosing to ignore the PL. You reap what you sow.

I'll be delighted if the pricing initiative works but I don't believe it will have any noticeable impact unless the many other issues in the game are addressed. It's not so long ago twelve households in our village used to empty out around 2.00pm on a Saturday. These days it's two.

We no longer go to away games because of cost, and we have other things we do instead. That's unlikely to change now.

couldnt agree more ..apart from pub broadcasts ,away games is good but home games is a different matter

footy tho is going the same way snooker did in the 80/90's over saturation and overkill

[Paul]

Paul this is exactly the point you and myself and others have been trying to make for a while and what Gav is highlighting on his post.

Yep I know. I've been banging on about this for around 4 years now, right back to the times I was saying "We need a hero!"

Frankly the game is stuffed, the dream is dead. I was stupid enough to sit in Nuttall Street watching all sorts of players, some good, some bad, some simple tryers. Pretty much up till Christmas or even Easter I'd believe we could get promoted. Then there was a chance in the FA Cup. We always had a few to set the pulse racing in one way or another. I believed in those players.

Now I take my place every August knowing there is no possibility of winning the league, the bulk of clubs no longer take the cup seriously. I watch a youngster make his debut and wonder how long he will stay. IF we develop the next Alan Shearer, please God, the big four will offer us so much money the club will be unable to refuse. Every way you look the majority of PL supporters have been shafted by the PL and it's TV money.

Now there is a view we should consider ourselves lucky to watch some the world's greatest players. Well the chance to see Henry once a year does nothing to persuade me to watch Blackburn Rovers. Fans need the buzz, the excitment of a Jansen, Garner, Duff, Sellars, Le Tissier, etc. This is what we pay money for, this is what keeps the dream alive.

I so hope Dunny can do it. Can he bring the spark back, a little excitment when he's on the ball?

[ABBEY]

thing is tho Paul as soon as you get a hero ..ie.shearer,duff,dunn,bellers,benni etc you know that they will be on there way ,there is no room for heroes these days at brfc.

[Moppy]

couldnt agree more ..apart from pub broadcasts ,away games is good but home games is a different matter

Thats the main one that needs addressing imho. Its not that bad for away games but it is awful for home games. Hope the pubs that show home games in Blackburn get handed fines. In a perfect world the money from the fine would go to the Rovers as compensation.

[ABBEY]

bolton police are said to prosecuting pubs for it as well....bolton news yesterday..not looked for link.

[den]

As for the worry of losing any of our youngsters to the top clubs Paul, it's nothing to do with the PL. We haven't been able to keep hold of players since the abolition of the maximum wage in the early sixties.

That was the single biggest reason for rovers decline - not the PL.

[ihateburnley]

The worst thing about this is, it would take something so monumental to change all these issues. Like I said earlier in this thread, I can think of lots of ideas to make the Ewood experience a better one and possibly help entice more fans to the stadium - but has any ideas on how to save football???

Football is REALLY boring nowadays and that's basically the top and bottom of it. I don't mean the matches themselves, I mean the competition. You look at every club outside the Premiership and what do they have to look forward to? The answer is nothing. They have absolutely nothing to look forward to except survival, and that's not what football should be about.

But then I'm looking towards to the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool - what is their aim? They are just getting richer and richer and richer. They aim to win the Champions League but only because that will make them richer! It's so fake. These big four are simply looking to finish in the same positions (or thereabouts) for the rest of eternity. Now I know people look at this situation and say look at when Liverpool dominated in the 80s - all empires come to an end.......but this one won't. The financial gulf between these clubs and the rest of the league is disturbing to say the least.

I don't have a clue how they could go about doing it, but the FA/PL/Football League need to look at a way of putting everyone on a level pegging at the start of each season - for the good of the game, or rather the survival of the game. Now whether that be an independant authority that assigns a value to each player at every club and then allocates funds to every club. Much like a fantasy football competition I suppose, except you keep the same players year on year and the only way you can buy other players is by offering exactly what that player is deemed to be worth. The player's salary could then be decided by a percentage of their worth (so the better players earn more).

I don't know these seem wacky and extreme measures to take, but in my opinion drastic changes need to be made in order for the game of football to carry on being successful.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Sorry folks , but this pub lark does not hit home with me as I don't think it will make much difference to the Rovers or Bolton for that matter.

My reasoning behind this, is that I know people who do this but there are also alot in the mix up who go and wouldn't buy a ticket anyway - in other words Football is just the main excuse to go to the pub regardless and if anything would probably still end up in the pub even if the Football wasn't on.

Now its fair enough the club and others saying the fans are looking for a cheap option , however a guy who I know and has been following the Rovers commented upon this a few weeks back as saying that is exactly what Rovers have done with the club shop - so they are a bit hypocritical in slating supporters and maybe the pubs for doing the same, as at the end of the day the licencees are running a business and earn a living- and if they run promotions to get these people in then fair do's.

However, what he commented upon which I don't think anybody has commented upon as far as I can remember was this - why don't they play the pubs/breweries at their own game ie run promotions. - Open the ground up earlier for eg 2 for one price pints/ food/ Indian, Chinese day/ open the Blues /Concourse Bars.

Obviously there will be legal constraints/ rules etc to abide with and possible situations where it might lead to increased problems ie more drunken people - but there are ways and means already in hand for already dealing with this on a normal match day but it sounds to me like something to be looked at if it hasn't already.

[thenodrog]

Sorry folks , but this pub lark does not hit home with me as I don't think it will make much difference to the Rovers or Bolton for that matter.

It must make a huge difference to away support.

However, what he commented upon which I don't think anybody has commented upon as far as I can remember was this - why don't they play the pubs/breweries at their own game ie run promotions. - Open the ground up earlier for eg 2 for one price pints/ food/ Indian, Chinese day/ open the Blues /Concourse Bars.

Obviously there will be legal constraints/ rules etc to abide with and possible situations where it might lead to increased problems ie more drunken people - but there are ways and means already in hand for already dealing with this on a normal match day but it sounds to me like something to be looked at if it hasn't already.

I've made this point (somewhere on the Old gate thread) that Ewood is undersold and that we should be doing our pre and post match drinking eating and watching Sky TV there and not in the pub. Likewise with away games.

I don't know the rules exactly but I imagine that screening away matches live at Ewood will be illegal. Maybe the PL / Sky deal would be better making it legal so that the pubs / arabic tv or whatever do actually have some competition.

[mickygray316]

well as of next season art sports have lost the rights to broadcast premiership football. This is the channel that most pubs use. The only way to pick up 3pm games now will be with a huge dish

[waggy]

i've always been against watching rovers games in the pub,but for the last two away games i have watched them in a local pub,and the pub has been packed.the landlord takes a risk but a full pub for 2 or more hours must outway the threat off fines,they have the chelsea match on next week and i will be there

[LeftWinger]

i've always been against watching rovers games in the pub,but for the last two away games i have watched them in a local pub,and the pub has been packed.the landlord takes a risk but a full pub for 2 or more hours must outway the threat off fines,they have the chelsea match on next week and i will be there

I was told they even get a warning first before a 20k fine.

[Antgrad]

I'm not sure how it could be implemented but maybe a way around the "supporters" watching in the pub rather than at the ground is to do the same as they do in America for the NFL. Unless the game is a sell-out it cannot be aired locally.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Missed that somehow TND

Now it is getting spooky - too much people agreeing with you now

As for the away support - do you mean in football in general or just the Rovers home and away?

[daren]

I'm not sure how it could be implemented but maybe a way around the "supporters" watching in the pub rather than at the ground is to do the same as they do in America for the NFL. Unless the game is a sell-out it cannot be aired locally.

That's a good idea!

As for the point that "the bulk of clubs don't take the competition seriously" I think you're looking at 3 clubs who don't take the FA cup too seriously, and thats Manure, L'Arsé, and Chelski. Everyone else more-or-less does, and I've always liked the idea of blooding some of your youngsters in the cup, after all many of them have been playing in those leagues, so have experience of playing the lower division sides. It's a good way to see if they'll fit and they have to get the chance somewhere.

[blue phil]

i've always been against watching rovers games in the pub,but for the last two away games i have watched them in a local pub,and the pub has been packed.the landlord takes a risk but a full pub for 2 or more hours must outway the threat off fines,they have the chelsea match on next week and i will be there

So will I . The pubs in Blackburn have been decimated in recent years and need all the business they can get . It's not just the footy club that's suffering . It's bad news if ART have lost out on the contract for prem games next season but hopefully an equally accessible channel will replace them . Probably be on my own saying that but never mind.....

There has been a steady stream of posts pointing out that there is a small but increasing number of Asian faces at Ewood supporting the Rovers

Let's not carried away into believing what we want to believe . The number of Asians attending is miniscule and at the current rate of increase will not be of any significance for decades to come .....and by then Ewood may well have another use other than football .

[Roversider]

Sorry blue phil, but "supporters" like you aren't what is needed. We need fans who care enough to at least go to the game and not the pub. Can't hear your shouts from where you sit.

I would mind less if people went to a pub that was legally showing Sky because at least that is not illegal. The joke is that the pubs in Blackburn are not seeing any muslim visitors but last I heard watching football was not against the tenets of islam - unlike alcohol.

So I'm more than happy to see anyone extra coming to Ewood, hence the reason for this topic, that being support for John Williams in dropping prices.

[colin]

Ditto,

Not sure how you have the brass neck to contribute to this thread and admit you will be watching Rovers in a pub showing games illegally on satellite.

Contribute to the economy of the pub sector of Blackburn if you wish, just do it at a time other than when Rovers are playing at Ewood.

You know it makes sense.