[Archived] Three Cheers For John Williams

[Roar of the Rover]

Anyway how does this 'Card' thing work, i had 3 stickers on it before todays game, Bol, ManU, Liv and i used it on todays ticket, so i got my ticket for £15 and the guy at the ticket office threw it away, i asked him what are ya playing at?. He said that i've used the 3 stickers on todays game so i dont need it.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Todays disappointing home turnout after some good recent team form has me very sceptical again.

The sight of empty seats in the Riverside outer £15 sections has me nearly convinced that regardless of promised price cuts and whatever other promotions the club does to attract support back, the interest and demand is just simply not there anymore...they really have their work cut out with our lot.Even the atmosphere was subdued and flat up until the winner.

Will we ever again see regular 20,000 home fans on Ewood?.....Rovers are the only club I know of where as the team does better,the attendances fall.

[stuwilky]

Anyway how does this 'Card' thing work, i had 3 stickers on it before todays game, Bol, ManU, Liv and i used it on todays ticket, so i got my ticket for £15 and the guy at the ticket office threw it away, i asked him what are ya playing at?. He said that i've used the 3 stickers on todays game so i dont need it.

That was one way of doing it, but Im afraid to say not an especially good method as today's match was a "triple stikcer" match Where you would have been given three stickers for a full price match ticket - meaning you could use two of them for the next game and get £20 off the ticket, plus a first sticker on your next card.

[FourLaneBlue]

Our only home game in the space of more than five weeks and we get 20,917. This after (Watford and Arsenal apart) being a superb run of form.

We are in trouble when it comes to crowds and I don't think cheap tickets will be enough to reverse it. They can of course help (and £38 tickets against anyone but Man U/Liverpool - and even them - are no help at all in getting people through the gates) but I don't see how they can change the drift away from Ewood that has been happening since 2002/2003.

[LeChuck]

I'm surprised by how low-key David Dunn's return to the club has been. There has been very little in the media, either from the club or Dunn himself, regarding the move. I thought the club would have played on the 'home coming' a bit more to try and create a bit of excitement and enthusiasm amongst fans. I know it's slightly different, but Liverpool made a big deal out of Fowler returning to the club, even though he's pretty much useless to the club. That story dominated the headlines for a week or so and, whilst we could never get that sort of publicity, I still think we've missed out on something there.

[Florida Rover]

Maybe it is a case of "the less you say,the less you have to take back".We all know what Dunny used to be and his memories,for the most part,are good ones.This time he is such an unknown "X" factor ,that it would be difficult to say if this return will like Jansen's return (i.e. not much to write home about) or like Hendry's return(better than first time).It would be brilliant if Dunn score 10 goals for us and sets up 10 more but the club have no way of knowing.Difficult to market this time around.However,if has a successful term for us then next year we have more oportunities to market as well as potentially fill the Tugay hole that will be approaching.

[Paul]

Our only home game in the space of more than five weeks and we get 20,917. This after (Watford and Arsenal apart) being a superb run of form.

We are in trouble when it comes to crowds and I don't think cheap tickets will be enough to reverse it. They can of course help (and £38 tickets against anyone but Man U/Liverpool - and even them - are no help at all in getting people through the gates) but I don't see how they can change the drift away from Ewood that has been happening since 2002/2003.

I wasn't the least bit surprised by the gate. It's very boring to keep banging on about the reasons but they are written plain for all to see - and this must include those responsible for running the Premier League. In no particular order:

1. For all on here we are in the middle of a decent run of form. 9 wins out of the last 15 in all competitions. For the less committed we lost a diabolical game at home to Arsenal, put in a terrible performance to lose at the bottom club and been soundly beaten at Stamford Bridge. Great form.

2. We've played 6 out of 7 away in January, it hardly helps to keep the adrenalin flowing. After Boro and Liverpool I just wanted more so went to Wigan after deciding not to go. Anyone who was buzzing after those games won't have seen a decent game at Ewood since then. Football should be 3.00pm Saturday, every other week. One home game in five weeks and people switch off.

3. Sheffield United typify the quality of the Premiership. Other than having an ST nothing would persuade me I need to see this team

4. Look at the PL table, then look at the Italian and Spanish tables. Spot the difference? No, you won't. The last few weeks I've been think the PL table truely demonstrates the povery of this competition. 3-4 four teams capable of amassing a decent points total, the rest averaging 1.3 a game or less!!!

5. Today's match was meaningless for many. We won't go down, who cares what Sheff Utd do, we aren't competing to win the league. Our PL season is over. There may be fans without STs deciding I'll save my money in the hope we continue to progress in the cups.

I spent the whole second half wishing the game would end. It was awful, yes MGP's goal was fantastic, but waht will the less committed fan remember? 90 minutes of poor entertainment or one moment of brilliance - which a lot of ST holders round me missed as they had left.

The PL have to recognise declining gates are a response to many different aspects of the game. Our last two home games, Arsenal and Sheff Utd, have done nothing to stimulate interest and it's a long time since the Liverpool game, which was a real match. You cannot keep serving up rubbish, overcharging for it and then claiming the PL is the greatest league in the world. Fans aren't mugs and have other things to do on a Saturday afternoon.

I saw little yesterday to make me want to go back.

PS - these remarks are about the PL, not Blackburn Rovers. We have to understand the majority are not committed fans, the PL has been blinded by it's own PR machine, it is not a great competition. It is a meaningless competition with 16 clubs competing for next year's prize of £30 million or more, the competition is to stay up, not win the bloody thing. Just what does this tell the casual fan? We want to entertain you, we want to win the league or we are desperate to earn that £30m? No prizes for the correct answer.

....and when one thinks about the remarks many fans make about league position etc it's clear even some of the committed have been blinded by the cash on offer.

[Flopsy]

I listened to the first half and then watched the Rugby. You'll forgive me but football just doesnt excite me anymore, except for the cups.

Ive taken more interest in watching England get a hammering down under than whats going on in yet another boring year of premiership football.

Still, if I am to go to more Rovers games its the ticket prices that will do it. It costs me about £30 in fuel at the moment for the return trip, I dont have that kind of money for 2 games a month up at ewood.

And I wouldnt have that money if it was Lancashire United either Theno.

[thenodrog]

Thanks for that Paul. You have raised many valid points.......

......but put them in such a negative manner that I will now consider ripping up my ST and never setting foot in Ewood again! Crikey you make Marvin the paranoid android sound uplifting!

[Paul]

Hey hang on a minute theno. I don't agree with some of the points you raise, Lancashire Utd, use it or lose it, prices are the going rate etc. Apologies if I've wrongly attributed them. Where I do agree with you is your realistic view that there is a serious problem and effort to provide a solution. I'm trying to point out where, for me, the problems exist. We have to be realistic, what aspect of yesterday's game would stimulate a stay-away fan to return? It was dire. This isn't Rovers fault, it's the modern game and many aspects of it are clearly not acceptable to the modern fan. If the PL is the greatest league in the world people should be flocking to see it. They aren't, fans are turning their backs on the game which must mean the PL isn't providing what fans want to watch.

I feel the points I'm making highlight some of the problems. Over Christmas I decided against Wigan on a cost basis. The Liverpool game (excellent match) followed by Boro (which i don't remember at all) left me wanting more so I went to Wigan. Did yesterday's game have the same effect? Well I'm not going to Everton, so there is the answer.

[thenodrog]

And I wouldnt have that money if it was Lancashire United either Theno.

You are a has been and a write off now then flopsy and no longer worth considering from the perspective of a business like board of directors. As such your comments on 'Real Lanky' are irrelevent. But it appears that plenty more have the necessary money as can be witnessed by the amount of supporters heading north whenever Man Utd and Liverpool are at home.

You obviously need to get a better paid job.

Hey hang on a minute theno. I don't agree with some of the points you raise, Lancashire Utd, use it or lose it, prices are the going rate etc. Apologies if I've wrongly attributed them. Where I do agree with you is your realistic view that there is a serious problem and effort to provide a solution. I'm trying to point out where, for me, the problems exist. We have to be realistic, what aspect of yesterday's game would stimulate a stay-away fan to return? It was dire. This isn't Rovers fault, it's the modern game and many aspects of it are clearly not acceptable to the modern fan. If the PL is the greatest league in the world people should be flocking to see it. They aren't, fans are turning their backs on the game which must mean the PL isn't providing what fans want to watch.

I feel the points I'm making highlight some of the problems. Over Christmas I decided against Wigan on a cost basis. The Liverpool game (excellent match) followed by Boro (which i don't remember at all) left me wanting more so I went to Wigan. Did yesterday's game have the same effect? Well I'm not going to Everton, so there is the answer.

C'mon Paul you said there was nothing to tempt you from either the Arsenal game or yesterdays. They are opposite ends of the spectrum for goodness sake, yet the nature of the game is such that Sheff Utd were (I think) the last team to overcome Arseanl. When we played the Arse Henry's goal was almost worth the entrance money alone whilst yesterday we had to overcome (slighty fortunately) a competetive and combatative outfit. Rem when we were top dogs? Team after team came to Ewood playing like Sheff Utd as happens now at any of the top 3 clubs. It's nothing new and it's simply another challenge to overcome. You must have known what to expect before the game if the truths known.

There are some valid points that you make but you don't half make it all so depressing.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I have to agree with Theno on some points Paul,dont take this as a personal attack but you do make it sound as though you yourself are losing interest.I personally couldn't give a flurk whether we are playing Sheff Utd or Man Utd, I go to Ewood to see Rovers win,we cant always expect a fantastic game everytime,for me the final result is paramount in importance.

In my view this brings us back to the physce of the modern day football supporter,perhaps less partisan/commited in his ways, who for his money,now wants to be entertained first and final result comes second?

As a fan who followed Rovers through some of its worst times on and off the field it really is all rather alien to me this 'bored with it' point of view.

But obviously at the end of the day its everyone to his own I suppose.

[Fife Rover]

In reply to Theno's post criticising Paul's points:

Firstly; I fully agree with everything Paul has said. He has very nicely encapsulated everything that is wrong with the PL and modern day football. I wont attempt to re-iterate any of Paul's points ( for those interested, just go back to Paul's original).

Secondly; it is of no use people like Theno with a "money is no object" attitude trying to put down the points raised by people like Paul and myself. The impression I get when I read Theno's arguments on this subject are:What are you moaning and complaining about? It is simply market forces at work. Get used to it! If it is too dear for you, then tough; get a better paid job! That if I may say so is a typical Marketing Man's attitude, and demonstrates perfectly their greedy and selfish outlook on life. What do I care if you can't afford my products; there are plenty that can and I will have their money off them whether they can really afford it or not. I will persuade them that they cannot live without this product.

What an attitude! No wonder there are so many people in debt today. These Marketeers exploit your perfectly natural wants and desires and convince you that if you dont have these things then you are "out of step/fashion" and therefore some kind of failure. Tipyfied by the song "I want it all, and I want it now". probably written by a Marketing Man.

There is hope though. You just have to recognise this Marketing Hype for what it is, and resist. Stay within your budget at ALL times and recognise what your true disposable income is.

[Paul]

I'm not tired of watching Rovers but I am tired of watching the PL. The truth is modern football is poor entertainment and very poor value for money, there is no chance of winning the league so what is the point? I gave up watching football on TV many years ago, I gave up going away more recently because of cost. When I look at the games we have to watch these days I'm close to giving up going to Ewood because I know 15 or 16 of the teams who turn up simply aren't worth watching anymore. Liverpool and United are the two games left as highlights to the season. Chelsea, well that isn't a football club, Arsenal are cheats and the rest are simply scrabbling around desperate to avoid relegation. This is what the PL has brought us to. Last two home games we have Arsenal falling over and wasting time for all they are worth, Sheff Utd desperate to keep a point.

I could have enjoyed myself more doing something else yesterday. How much longer I bother remains to be seen. If I stop that will be four STs that stop.

I'm not having a go at Rovers here. The points I made above are the reasons people stop going. I've been an ST holder for 25 seasons and at the moment I'm not sure I shall be renewing. This isn't about Rovers, this about the PL. It is rubbish yet we are constantly told how good it is. Football fans are not idiots.

Theno both Henry and MGP scored great goals but it is not worth the entrance money alone. For the entrance money I expect more than to spend the whole second half wishing the game was over. I've been a football fan all my life, I've hardly missed a game at Ewood for around 28 of those years. If the PL can't recognise people like me are seriously disillusined with the game then they will most definetley reap what they have sown. Which is disaster.

Yesterday's game was dire, there is no escaping that, and in football terms, not Rovers terms, this is not good enough.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I could have enjoyed myself more doing something else yesterday. How much longer I bother remains to be seen. If I stop that will be four STs that stop.

I'm not having a go at Rovers here. The points I made above are the reasons people stop going. I've been an ST holder for 25 seasons and at the moment I'm not sure I shall be renewing. This isn't about Rovers, this about the PL. It is rubbish yet we are constantly told how good it is. Football fans are not idiots.

I respect your view Paul but to me personally that sounds like cutting of your nose to spite your face!

Yesterday's game was dire, there is no escaping that, and in football terms, not Rovers terms, this is not good enough.

Paul,Rovers supplied the product yesterday,both are linked in a way....you cant always get what you want.

[daren]

As far as I'm concerned as a Rovers fan, the table is a guide to help me remember how we're doing, I take every game as it comes and want Rovers to win them all! Since sparky arrived I've been more happy than angry and frustrated It's something about the blue and white halves, gets the blood flowing

[Exiled in Toronto]

for me the final result is paramount in importance.

Well you probably haven't had your money's worth this season. Back to a point Paul made in his first post about the other 16 clubs: despite an deceptively successful sounding 9th position, Rovers have won only 6 PL home games out of 13, which is less than half, and in that we were lucky to beat Sheff Utd, Wigan, and even City, and have scored a pathetic 1.2 goals per game. Rarely if ever this season have Rovers turned up for both halves of a home game.

Imagine being a regular cinema goer and over half of the films were poor, and of the rest, half of each film was boring, rescued only by an exciting last 5 mins or a cameo performance by a star, oh, and the price had gone up 600% in ten years; would attendances be rising?

[Exiled in Toronto]

That if I may say so is a typical Marketing Man's attitude, and demonstrates perfectly their greedy and selfish outlook on life.

Hang on Fife, I might take that one personally! I don't know what Theno does, but his posts over time tell me that it's not marketing.

The company where I learnt my trade built their business by investing in quality AND cutting prices - by 70% over 14 years - to create a mass market for their product, bring pleasure to millions and build a brand loyalty second to none. Now that is good marketing, which is why I disagree with everything the 'market forces' people spout on here. Good marketers change the rules of markets to gain advantage, not blindly follow them like sheep and treat their customers as idiots.

[BRFC4EVA]

Well you probably haven't had your money's worth this season

So we are 9th out of 92 football league clubs, in the 5th round of the fa cup and in the knockout stages of Europe. So we aint getting value for money? Jeez id hate for some of you to be torquay fans.

[joey_big_nose]

Well you probably haven't had your money's worth this season. Back to a point Paul made in his first post about the other 16 clubs: despite an deceptively successful sounding 9th position, Rovers have won only 6 PL home games out of 13, which is less than half, and in that we were lucky to beat Sheff Utd, Wigan, and even City, and have scored a pathetic 1.2 goals per game. Rarely if ever this season have Rovers turned up for both halves of a home game.

Imagine being a regular cinema goer and over half of the films were poor, and of the rest, half of each film was boring, rescued only by an exciting last 5 mins or a cameo performance by a star, oh, and the price had gone up 600% in ten years; would attendances be rising?

I don't really understand what the constructive point of that assessment is. At the moment Rovers are playing high quality football, we have a team as packed through with flair and attacking spirit as any that has graced Ewood to my knowledge, we are doing well in the league and two cups, and our ticket prices are the lowest in the division.

What on earth can Rovers do? We have no more financial resources than 18 of the 20 PL clubs, we have a comparatively small following, we are by any measure over achieving rather than under achieving.

[Fife Rover]

Hang on Fife, I might take that one personally! I don't know what Theno does, but his posts over time tell me that it's not marketing.

The company where I learnt my trade built their business by investing in quality AND cutting prices - by 70% over 14 years - to create a mass market for their product, bring pleasure to millions and build a brand loyalty second to none. Now that is good marketing, which is why I disagree with everything the 'market forces' people spout on here. Good marketers change the rules of markets to gain advantage, not blindly follow them like sheep and treat their customers as idiots.

Well in the light of that EIT, I apologise. The target of my little outburst was not aimed at people like yourself that genuinely consider the REAL needs of people "out there", but more at the drum banging, loud mouthed, uncaring, ad-men that literally shriek at you from your TV screen all the time. And the underhand methods used to target vulnerable people into spending far more money than they cam afford without getting themselves into serious difficulties. Believe me, if you have ever had to deal with some of the heart rending cases I have seen you would understand. Then when people like Theno come on, with his I can afford it so why can't you? approach it really gets me going.

[philipl]

I am getting increasingly puzzled by the comments being made about football at Ewood.

If you watch mid-table Serie A, La Liga or Bundesliga you will realise just how good the football at Ewood is- even if it is Sheff U visiting.

The athleticism, skill, pace and organisation of Premiership teams is breathtaking.

The "product" at Ewood has never been better except in seasons 93/4 and 94/5.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I am getting increasingly puzzled by the comments being made about football at Ewood.

If you watch mid-table Serie A, La Liga or Bundesliga you will realise just how good the football at Ewood is- even if it is Sheff U visiting.

The athleticism, skill, pace and organisation of Premiership teams is breathtaking.

The "product" at Ewood has never been better except in seasons 93/4 and 94/5.

And the pricing as a percentage of local disposable income in those seasons, for a better product in terms of wins and goals scored, was substantially lower than now.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but my Dad thought it was dreadful. Since he has neither the means not the interest to watch football 600 miles away, if that is even worse value, then I don't think he will be more inclined to renew his season ticket. Football, as far as attendances go, is essentially a local product. It doesn't matter what other people charge or how good their footy is.

My point was that we are now in such a skewed 'league' that our playing record this season in a balanced league would have us well below half-way up the table. It used to be that winning as many as you lose got you midtable. Now, if we had won 2 more games, we would be 6th while still having more losses than wins. That's why I think league placings below the top four do not drive increased attendances. There really is no qualitative difference between 6th and 16th.

It is interesting that the Sun has got on the bandwagon of lower prices - and also interesting that their seemingly even-handed analysis has us mid-table in terms of pricing, not 'the cheapest in the Premier League' as we are often told. Footy prices

I fully support JW's initiative on pricing - it needed to be said, and now it needs to be implemented well.

[philipl]

That Sun table ranks clubs by prices of the most expensive season tickets on offer and Rovers come round about middle on that basis.

If they ordered it by the least expensive seats or the least expensive season tickets, Rovers are the cheapest.

[Exiled in Toronto]

For the least attractive opposition.

I was surprised to discover that Man Yoo have cheaper seats for the visit of e.g. Arsenal than do we. They are the club that could most treat their supporters like idiots yet do not. They could double their prices and OT would still be a lot more than half full.