[Archived] Trouble In Germany

[Alan75]

Please note. Dont try selling tickets on here, I dont think Admin want to pick up fines.

New ticket-touting laws will also come in, with a maximum £5,000 fine for unauthorised sale of match tickets on the internet - and it will become illegal to advertise the unauthorised sale of tickets.

[blue phil]

Whilst I do not like the draconian and illiberal nature of these new powers, it should sort out the sort of things that are being complained about in this thread.

What you class as Draconian and illiberal most people would class as common sense . At least you recognise it might work , I suppose ....

[philipl]

Some views on the current issues following the problems in Rome and Seville in this article.

It does seem that travel abroad allows a minority to get up to things they would not dream of at football games in England. That said, what happened in Italy looked like common assault by the riot police and I am sure we would have heard by now if the stabbings of the manc supporters were anything other than totally unprovoked attempted murders.

[thenodrog]

Some views on the current issues following the problems in Rome and Seville in this article.

That said, what happened in Italy looked like common assault by the riot police

Those Italian police looked a bit puffy. I'm sure there would have been deaths if those bugggers from Krakow had been drafted in.

[92er]

Trouble with the police-an interesting article in the Daily Telegraph today.

Henry Winter is suggesting a lot of the trouble is down to the police-his last paragraph reads: But there is a definite smell of sulphur in the air again. Italian and French police and a few English hooligans are culpable.

[Tris]

Henry Winter's article

This is a guy who bases his reports and comments on fact and fact alone. I met him in Ankara (and provided a couple of snippets for his match report v Gencler) - he has a hard backed notebook full of random fan contact details for every club he might ever report on.

We can all see what is going on here. Clubs (and cities) on the continent are WAY behind the UK when it comes to dealing with these problems. So it's convenient to "welcome" a few ###### Brits with enough intimidation to ensure there's a live TV riot.

Today Claire and I went to Southend v Colchester - a local derby which may not shake the Richter scale but the two Essex sides don't exactly love each other. No trouble anywhere. Last week we went to Millwall v Swansea - plenty of ingredients for Eng v Wales bother ... but Millwall is so well policed you can't have a safer live football experience.

On the flip side, last year we went to a Juventus home game in the CL and a Nice home game in the French D1. Neither were well stewarded or well policed - they are worlds away from England. But the last two days shows that English teams provide fans who are an easy target - cheap flights and strong beer meets no sh!t riot policing - the result is not pretty.

[thenodrog]

But the last two days shows that English teams provide fans who are an easy target - cheap flights and strong beer meets no sh!t riot policing - the result is not pretty.

Yeah but on the other hand Tris, I've done cheap fights to footy plus sinking plenty of cheap and strong lager without feeling the need to riot / fight / or put bits of myself through plate glass windows . I bet the same thing with you eh? Our society for whatever reason does produce a significant underclass that thinks mixing the two with a good dose of yob culture provides the perfect trip. In most cases the people who suffer most are the innocent bystanders.

btw I cannot get your Henry Winter link to work.

[Ozz]

Corrected Link to Telegraph article

Too many https Tris !

[92er]

Corrected Link to Telegraph article

Too many https Tris !

Thanks to Ozziejones and Tris for getting the article up-it's quite beyond me, especially at my advanced age!

My concern was that although most of the blame appears to lay with the police, there was an element to blame within the English supporters and that this needs to be looked as at well. It sounds as though "low life fans" are coming back with the intention of causing trouble.

[Fife Rover]

Yeah but on the other hand Tris, I've done cheap fights to footy plus sinking plenty of cheap and strong lager without feeling the need to riot / fight / or put bits of myself through plate glass windows . I bet the same thing with you eh? Our society for whatever reason does produce a significant underclass that thinks mixing the two with a good dose of yob culture provides the perfect trip. In most cases the people who suffer most are the innocent bystanders.

btw I cannot get your Henry Winter link to work.

Bring back National Service! Also for persistent offenders who have already had a couple of court appearences for the same offences, give them a 2 year sentence of National Service instead of jail. Who knows it might actually make men of them as it did for 100's of 1000's of young men in the 40's, 50's and 60's who had not committed any offence.

Obviously this would require a new law passed by Parliament, but it would certainly help with the overcrowded jails problem and also actually do some good for these misguided youths. A spell in Iraq as well would be benificial. We/they would then find out what they were really made of.

[blue phil]

Yeah but on the other hand Tris, I've done cheap fights to footy plus sinking plenty of cheap and strong lager without feeling the need to riot / fight / or put bits of myself through plate glass windows

All your aggression is channelled through this messageboard , that's why , Drog ....!!

Not sure what cheap flights have to do with it - they weren't around back in the 70's . It's just a cultural thing which Fife , in the post above , gives positive ideas toward addressing .

[DP]

Our society for whatever reason does produce a significant underclass that thinks mixing the two with a good dose of yob culture provides the perfect trip.

And I live in suposedly one of the most civilised countries in Europe with one of the lowest crime rates. Football matches are a different thing though and hooliganism is seen as part of the football culture. It's certainly not just an English thing.

[Grabbi Graeme]

SSN are just reporting the fans are clashing with police outside Old Trafford, they can't tell if it is Roma or Utd fans causing the problems.

It is Roma fans who have clashed with police, Uefa should look at this closely it's about time they clamped down on fans from Italian clubs.

[American]

SSN are just reporting the fans are clashing with police outside Old Trafford, they can't tell if it is Roma or Utd fans causing the problems.

It is Roma fans who have clashed with police, Uefa should look at this closely it's about time they clamped down on fans from Italian clubs.

And what about the English fans who are alleged to have instigated it?

[AlanK]

All I know is that when Man.City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal visit Old trafford you don`t get those scenes.

Watching it on sky sports news right now.

Many Roma fans have arrived without tickets and can`t get in.

[1864roverite]

An update for those supporters who witnessed our moronic friends causing trouble in Germany is that 10 persons have been arrested. Yesterday 6 persons received football banning orders and the pother 4 had their cases adjourned until November 07.

There is NO escape you idiots

[Roost]

An update for those supporters who witnessed our moronic friends causing trouble in Germany is that 10 persons have been arrested. Yesterday 6 persons received football banning orders and the pother 4 had their cases adjourned until November 07.

There is NO escape you idiots

Well, isnt that just the best use of our 'over stretched' police force.......... 6 months of cost for us tax payers to nail some people that decided to have a fight between themselves.

PATHETIC

5 months ago, my 93 year old next door neighbour was attacked in his home and badly hurt. He never recovered and died in hospital - it took the police a week to make it to his house because of their 'workload' - now I know why they were so busy.

Anybody who thought it was morally right to INSIST that the police made an example of those involved in the fight should be ashamed - 6 months of investigation for 6 banning orders

[Eddie]

Of course they were right to continue the investigation. This particular incident may have been relatively minor and caused little or no damage to anyone, but if you don't punish those at fault all you are going to do is show them that they can get away with it and that they can try it again. The next time they do it we might not be so lucky, someone might get caught up inbetween a fight between a few morons and this story might have been a lot sadder. It's unfortunate to hear about your neighbour, something is obviously wrong there, but this is still a serious issue and it is one that has to be dealt with.

[bblue]

Eddie's right. Whatever the "workload" in the police force, it's not an issue to be taken lightly. And if I'm not mistaking there are special departments to deal with these problems, which kind of highlights the seriousness of the problem. They have to be shown there's not tolerance to this.

[thenodrog]

Of course they were right to continue the investigation. This particular incident may have been relatively minor and caused little or no damage to anyone, but if you don't punish those at fault all you are going to do is show them that they can get away with it and that they can try it again. The next time they do it we might not be so lucky, someone might get caught up inbetween a fight between a few morons and this story might have been a lot sadder. It's unfortunate to hear about your neighbour, something is obviously wrong there, but this is still a serious issue and it is one that has to be dealt with.

errr....... like a 'banning order' is going to change them for the better.

Maybe 6 months of investigation would have been time better spent if a few swishes of the birch in public had been in store.

[Roost]

errr....... like a 'banning order' is going to change them for the better.

Maybe 6 months of investigation would have been time better spent if a few swishes of the birch in public had been in store.

To some, a banning order is a badge of honour, so it only serves to shove them higher up the heirarchy as far as their peers are concerned.

Look just how banning orders had absolutely no effect on fans travelling to Amsterdam for the Feyenoord match - ok, they didnt get to watch the match, but they certainly made their presence felt in Amsterdam.

I would love to know how many hours were spent on this 'case' by lancashire Constabulary, and what the exact costs were associated to cracking this 'case'. In fact, it would be good to see a 'cost per banning order' - perhaps in euros

[Guest fernhurstblue]

An update for those supporters who witnessed our moronic friends causing trouble in Germany is that 10 persons have been arrested. Yesterday 6 persons received football banning orders and the pother 4 had their cases adjourned until November 07.

There is NO escape you idiots

it was no more than handbags at ten paces, nobody got hurt or injured .....

[Ben-2000]

it was no more than handbags at ten paces, nobody got hurt or injured .....

Well from what I saw there were a few punches thrown. It is not to be underestimated as somebody could have been seriously hurt

and what these people dont realise is that one punch in the wrong place can leave you severly injured or even dead.

I presume it took a while longer than usual to bring charges to these people due to the fact the incident happened in Germany rather than here.

[gazsimm]

they should be named and ashamed to the public as well of being given a ban, then they might realise they are bunch of d---heads

[yorkblues]

Six Rovers fans given banning orders

By Andrew Bellard

SIX Blackburn Rovers fans have been given football banning orders after fighting with each other at a European game in Germany.

Another four Rovers supporters also face banning applications after Lancashire police officers were able to recognise the 10 from surveillance footage provided by their German counterparts.

Christopher Aspinall, 23, of Commercial Street, Stephen Earnshaw, 21, of Petre Crescent, and Douglas Raith, 42, of Talbot Street, all Rishton, were given two-year banning orders.

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Oliver Hickmott, 21, of New Wellington Close, Blackburn, Anthony McAllion, 49, of Worsthorn Avenue, Blackburn, and Adam Metcalf, 23, of Napier Street, Nelson, were each given three-year banning orders after the court was told they had previously had a two-year football ban imposed on them.

Applications for banning orders against Adrian Charnley, of St Marks Road, Scott Counsell, of Wilson Street, both Blackburn, Lee Hughes, of Westwell Road, Chorley, and Jamie Regan, of Fernhurst Street, Blackburn, were adjourned until November 28.

Sue McLean, prosecuting on behalf of Lancashire Constabulary, said the six defendants accepted the making of the orders.

She said they had all been involved in a disturbance on the Blackburn Rovers side of the pitch during the club's three-two defeat in the UEFA Cup first knockout round, first leg against Bayer Leverkusen on Valentine's Day last year.

Some of those involved were taken away by the German police.

Miss McLean said 12 people were involved in the fighting and Lancashire police "spotters" had been able to identify 10 of them from the footage provided by their German counterparts.

She said: "I hazard to suggest the German police just wanted these hooligans out of their country as soon as possible.

"It seems a common theme is drink".

Imposing the orders District Judge Peter Ward said there should be zero tolerance of football related incidents.

He said: "The public should not have to put up with people behaving in this way.

"The majority of people who go to football matches go to enjoy the match and it is not fair that they should be put at risk because of the mindless, drink fuelled behaviour of a small minority.

"There is also the enormous cost of policing these events which would be greatly reduced if everybody behaved themselves.

"What you found to fall out about amongst yourselves I have no idea."