[Archived] Rovers 1 West Ham 2

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

But that's the point isn't it. I think we would all accept not being given a 'goal' that had crossed the line because unless the linesman can be absolutley 100% sure then he can't give it.

The Mendes one was a shot from a long way out and so the linesman was therefore closer to the halfway line than the goalline and so in a terrible position to be able to judge if the ball had crossed the line. He couldn't be sure and so he didn't give it. It proved to be a terrible decision but an understandable one.

Since the ball didn't cross the line on Saturday there was no way that the linesman could have been 100% sure that it did and so it seems to be more than just a terrible decison and begins to raise questions in people's minds. Was it more than just a simple mistake? Did he have a reason for wanting West Ham to win?

None of us (not even the guy who claims to know him) will ever know for sure. For what it's worth, if it was just that one incident then I probably wouldn't have any doubts about his motives, but the sheer number of 'mistakes' he made, all in favour of one team, have left a nasty feeling that I can't budge. The test for me is that, generally, an incompetent ref/linesman will be bad for both teams, that just didn't appear to be the case on Saturday.

You sum up my feelings Davey, there was something not right about Saturday night and the officials.

Let me tell you a story, the names have been changed to protect the guilty. I support a local rugby team who happen to have a nice little ground but an awful team , our ground was chosen mid way through the season to host the end of season play-off final as a neutral venue , the powers that be never expecting for a minute my team would actually make it any where near to the final.

As luck would have it a change of coach brought a complete change of fortune and my team came 3rd in the league, the way the play offs are configured in rugby we had to play the 2nd team away from home first, we just lost that after being on the end of several strange decisions. The no1 team and red hot favourites un-expectedly lost at home to the rank outsiders. Next game up we had to play the team who finished 6th at our own ground for the right to be in the final which would be held at our home ground, imagine the embarrassment to the rugby establishment for my team to be playing at home as a " neutral "venue ! My team was a lot better than the opposition and we soon went into a comforable lead in spite of the referee handing out free kicks like smarties and disallowing two perfectly good tries for my team, the game went on in this strange fashion until the overwhelming possession our opponents were given told and they just pipped us by two points at the death.

I 've since spoken to many players from both sides subsequently and not one of them thinks that game was on the level, ok this was rugby but it was high level rugby, 4,000 were at this game and 10,000 at the subsequent final. Am I right in being paranoid ?

[Boz]

I'm still livid this morning about Mr Devine's perforfance. I was sat directly in line behind him, virtually over his shoulder and the ball DID NOT cross the line!

Medication is not working so I've just sent the following email to, The FA Premier League, The FA (ulitimate jurisdiction of all footballing matters in England), Professional Games Match Officials Limited (Hacketts mob), Blackburn Rovers (shareholders of the FA Premier League). I don't expect a reply but now feel remarkably calmer (and relax)!

Dear Sirs

I wish to enquire what, if any, action the Board of the FA Premier League intend taking against Mr J Devine following his what can only be kindly described as an inept performance in last Saturday's match. Without going over the major incidents in the above match, I am sure you have procedures in place to monitor all your matches, however it can be fairly stated that the result centred on the performance of the assistant referee Jim Devine.

I would not wish to use the "cheat", or nor would I wish to imply that his decision making was in any way influenced by any possible personal financial incentives he may have received. However in view of the reputation (Lord Stevens Report into football corruption) football has acquired in recent times, I feel it is imperative that you the governing body ensure that the integrity of our game is protected, in such serious circumstances such as these.

I understand that you concede your responsibility for officiating your FA Premier League matches to the "Professional Games Match Officials Limited", who in the first instance are responsible for maintaining standards of their officials. As has so obviously been the case in the incidents surrounding Mr Devine last Saturday, he quite obviously has fallen way short of the necessary standards. I assume that they take some form of action against any of their employees when they have performed their duties in such a poor manner?

Despite the match referee Mr Howard Webb in my opinion having only at best an average game, I do not hold him responsible as I feel that he was badly let down by Mr Devine. One can make allowances and sympathise for circumstances where the official fails to see an incident for example if the ball went over the line but he failed to see this, but seeing something that plainly did not happen? I'm sure you would agree that David Bentley's second yellow card was regrettably, after he was clearly pushed whilst in mid air, however as no appeals against yellow cards are permitted, it is unfortunate but acceptable that he must now accept his one game ban.

I will be very interested to see what action PGMOL will be taking against Mr Devine. I would not expect him to be officiating in any of your League games again this season and certainly not in matches concerning Blackburn Rovers or West Ham United. Likewise again due to the seriousness of his actions I would expect you (FAPL) to make a public statement to protect the integrity of the League.

As a season ticket holder of Blackburn Rovers I could I am sure look into the possibility of legal action against you, were in circumstances I could argue that I have suffered a financial loss. An action where you the custodians of the League fail to take the necessary steps to protect what is regarded as the best league football competition. I shall await a response from you, while I consider what action if any I feel I might be able to take.

Could I request you to forward this email to PGMOL for their comments?

I have forwarded this directly to one of your shareholders, Blackburn Rovers, who I sincerely hope, raise this directly with you.

Likewise due to your League coming under the jurisdiction of The FA, I have forwarded it to them also and would appreciate their comments.

I have had some feedback from the email I attached on Monday 19th, when I was with hindsight still so obviously livid!

A nice reply acknowledging my email from John Williams's pa, to say that they had forwarded it to PGMOL. I appreciated that they had took the time to do this.

But more pleasing was a reply I received over the weekend from Keith Hackett General Manager of PGMOL. Very enlightening to discover that a) Mr Devine has written and apologised directly to BRFC, b ) how disappointed PGMOL were with the performance of both Devine and Webb, for which Mr Hackett apologised, c) how Mr Devine has offered to resign but persuaded by Mr Hackett not to and d) how Hackett and the Premier League are keen for goal line technology to be adopted asap but FIFA the governing body for the rules currently do not want changes.

The reply is 7 pages long, partly a standard reply with details about Hawk-Eye, camera and technology placing more pressure on officials and ProZone being used by PGMOL that provides information on officials performances and how in actual fact they do quite well in the circumstances.

So yes I am much calmer now and grateful that some have taken the trouble to reply, although we are still on 40 points!!

I could copy and paste the reply but due to it being seven pages long I thought better of it, or I could forward it electronically directly to anyone interested.

[Saltysellars]

I have had some feedback from the email I attached on Monday 19th, when I was with hindsight still so obviously livid!

A nice reply acknowledging my email from John Williams's pa, to say that they had forwarded it to PGMOL. I appreciated that they had took the time to do this.

But more pleasing was a reply I received over the weekend from Keith Hackett General Manager of PGMOL. Very enlightening to discover that a) Mr Devine has written and apologised directly to BRFC, how disappointed PGMOL were with the performance of both Devine and Webb, for which Mr Hackett apologised, c) how Mr Devine has offered to resign but persuaded by Mr Hackett not to and d) how Hackett and the Premier League are keen for goal line technology to be adopted asap but FIFA the governing body for the rules curently do want changes.

The reply is 7 pages long, partly a standard reply with details about Hawk-Eye, camera and technology placing more pressure on officials and ProZone being used by PGMOL that provides information on officials performances and how in actual fact they do quite well in the circumstances.

So yes I am much calmer now and grateful that some have taken the trouble to reply, although we are still on 40 points!!

I could copy and paste the reply but due to it being seven pages long I thought better of it, or I could forward it electronically directly to anyone interested.

Hi Boz- I wouldn't mind having a look at the full reply please

[Boz]

Hi Boz- I wouldn't mind having a look at the full reply please

Hi Salty, you'll have to PM me your email address as with my limited knowledge of this website I'm unable to email the attached word document.

[philipl]

Doesn't help with the lost 3 points but it is decent of them to apologise.

[orwot]

very decent indeed. must say, doubt very much that mr devine ACTUALLY profered his resignation. surely he doesn't care that much about rovers and fans.

[Boz]

very decent indeed. must say, doubt very much that mr devine ACTUALLY profered his resignation. surely he doesn't care that much about rovers and fans.

This is as quoted by Keith Hackett in said letter.

"The last thing that I want is for an official to guess that the ball is over the line. I know that the Assistant Referee has written to the club to apologise and I have persuaded him after a long career with the PGMOL not to resign. I would remind you that he is an International Assistant on the FIFA panel and highly regarded for the performances in the past that he has given."

[Alan75]

COCK-UP linesman Jim Devine has been axed from all games this weekend

LINK -MIRROR

[Cocker]

COCK-UP linesman Jim Devine has been axed from all games this weekend

LINK -MIRROR

Grrrr, I thought he had been axed from the prem for good Still, whatever he was given it was never going to help us.

[des]

we all make mistakes we are but human

[yorkblues]

we all make mistakes we are but human

this was never a mistake, offside handball and ball not over the line

[modes98]

Your not saying he did it on purpose, he is just crap. Believe it or not there is a difference, at least he can't lineo for a bit. The guy at the chippy was saying they should introduce referee and assistant suspensions. Doesn't sound too bad an idea actually.

[thenodrog]

The guy at the chippy was saying they should introduce referee and assistant suspensions. Doesn't sound too bad an idea actually.

Isn't that whats just happened in effect?

[ABBEY]

. The guy at the chippy was saying they should introduce referee and assistant suspensions. Doesn't sound too bad an idea actually.

and heres heres me thinking the guy at the chippy would have wanted him battered because he had a chip on his shoulder ..i know its sounds fishy but he's a pudding and is pieping on a bit.

[gumboots]

very decent indeed. must say, doubt very much that mr devine ACTUALLY profered his resignation. surely he doesn't care that much about rovers and fans.

I'm sure I posted it earlier but if not I'll tell you again. Jim Devine has told me personally that he has a very high regard for BRFC. We have a good reputation among all refs and linesmen for treating officials properly when they come to Ewood, unlike some clubs which do not ( no, he didn't name them) And 6 of our fans at least, me, my husband and 4 kids, he does care for as he has to meet us face to face at family gatherings unless he avoids them,which he can't do forever. If you've ever met me in a bad mood or what's worse my daughter, Emily, then you'd know that he would be quaking in his boots at the thought of our next meeting.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Personally, the annoying aspect in all this is as far as I have seen/read (so could be wrong) nobody has officially come out from the officials side to say that alot of the deicisons where wrong and still not given a reason why -one the goal was given (bar I believe bollux) the offsides and the sending off of Bentley.

Surprisingly, neither have Rovers asked for a 2nd look at the Bentley sending off considering the poor performance of both Webb and Devine.

[roversmum]

None of this is going to help regarding the points we have lost which can not only affect us at the end of the season but those clubs around West Ham at the bottom of the table.

[only2garners]

Surprisingly, neither have Rovers asked for a 2nd look at the Bentley sending off considering the poor performance of both Webb and Devine.

That's because you can't appeal against a yellow card.

[sussexrover]

That's because you can't appeal against a yellow card.

You can't appeal it, but I was under the impression that the Ref could ask for it to be rescinded in his match report after the game. I could be wrong though. Clearly if the ref had looked again then he should have been prepared to admit his mistake at that point.

[CAPT KAYOS]

That's because you can't appeal against a yellow card.

Thats why I posted 'take a look at' considering what happened.

There is still something not right here - as york blues has posted these where never mistakes and it wasn't just one official cocking up.

It was total gross incompetence and suspending just the linesman for a weekend in my book does not justify sufficient punishment for the goings on and what happened in the game.

[Atomicrover]

we all make mistakes we are but human

"To err is human, to forgive, divine", Alexander Pope, who was born in London and probably supported West Ham

(...and yes the same A.Pope refered to in "The DaVinci Code)

[ace]

"To err is human, to forgive, divine", Alexander Pope, who was born in London and probably supported West Ham

(...and yes the same A.Pope refered to in "The DaVinci Code)

Surely it should be >>" To err is Devine..to forgive , human!"

[mike at picture]

Surely it should be >>" To err is Devine..to forgive , human!"

Have you seen our avatar Ace?

I miss him.

[Fife Rover]

I have this funny feeling that we have not heard the last of this debacle. Consider the position after the last game of the season is over, and West Ham just escape relegation by one or two points, and one, two or even three clubs are relegated by anything within 2 points. Or Rovers fail to qualify for EUAFA place by 1 or 2 points. In either or both these cases there is going to be such a furore in the media and from the clubs affected. What will be the outcome then?

[ABBEY]

same as everton and bolton a few years back ....NOWT

ITS GONE NOW .