[Archived] Someone Unbiased Please Explain

[HairwayToSteven]

I never yelled. Plus you think I'm wrong because you would be the most lenient referee on the face of the planet. A yellow for deliberate stamping on the heels? Deary me.

Do you know it was a deliberate stamping? It looked nasty on the replay, but it does happen all the time. If you've seen Paul Scholes in past few weeks he has almost had one of those in every game - no direct red cards.

[James No. 7]

Do you know it was a deliberate stamping? It looked nasty on the replay, but it does happen all the time. If you've seen Paul Scholes in past few weeks he has almost had one of those in every game - no direct red cards.

Courtesy of cn174:

[Fife Rover]

I watched the game on TV, without any commentary. I thought that Mokoena's red was completely warranted, the first yellow was a very late tackle, and the second had to have been one of the clumsiest challenges I've seen in recent time. Barton on another day might've gotten a red. The foul on Tugs wasn't a red, but if an orange card were available... I thought MGP was disgracefull trying to get Barton going - on more than one occasion. I think Hamann did just enough to avvoid the red card when he cought Tugs and gave the ref a hard time about it. As for the people yelling for two to four(!) red cards, that's just wrong.

I have the whole game on DVD, (Start to watch incident at Match Time 25min,36sec) and have watched it over and over at various speeds and by freezing it as well. That was without any shadow of doubt a deliberate attempt to put Tugay out of the game. You can see Barton's leg coming in slightly raised and as it gets very close to contact he accelerates the downward stroke in a stamp which lands directly on Tugay's Achiles tendon. If he had succeeded in snapping that, then Tug's career would have been over. There is no way he would come back from that at his age. Barton is a complete phsyco and should be banned from football for life.

You can clearly see by watching the DVD at 1/4 speed that Barton is not aiming to get the ball at all, he is aiming straight for Tugay's leg. You can also see this from the still picture supplied by CN174.

[costakiau]

I have the whole game on DVD, (Start to watch incident at Match Time 25min,36sec) and have watched it over and over at various speeds and by freezing it as well. That was without any shadow of doubt a deliberate attempt to put Tugay out of the game. You can see Barton's leg coming in slightly raised and as it gets very close to contact he accelerates the downward stroke in a stamp which lands directly on Tugay's Achiles tendon. If he had succeeded in snapping that, then Tug's career would have been over. There is no way he would come back from that at his age. Barton is a complete phsyco and should be banned from football for life.

You can clearly see by watching the DVD at 1/4 speed that Barton is not aiming to get the ball at all, he is aiming straight for Tugay's leg. You can also see this from the still picture supplied by CN174.

I think that slowing a DVD down to 1/4 speed can make a lot of incidents look far worse than what they actually are. Perhaps slowing down Pederson's stamp on Eboue might give the same impression?

Tugay has dealt out his fair share of late challenges over the years and do his credit he didnt complain about this one, i think it was a yellow at most.

[McClarky]

Can we not just enjoy the win without winging on about the ref. We get more than our fair share of dodgy refs but why are we getting upset about this 1. He did nowt wrong as far as I'm concerned. There were a few bad tackles for wehich he rightly booked people and there's no way he could not have sent The Axe off and he knew it straight away. To be honest we probably had the rub of the green in both games against Arsenal so they're not all bad.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Yet another posturing, self important, incompetant referee. What's to explain?

I'm sorry, but get ready for more of the same in the semi-final!

[HairwayToSteven]

Allright, that seems to be a bad tackle. But there are a lot bad tackles around, goodness, Blackburn has dealt more than their share of those challenges. We're not in a position to complain that our players are unfairly being hounded by other team's players, nor do I feel we ought to be. Are we not having a laugh at Arsene Whinger for this exact behaviour, let's not go down that same road. Refs miss out on some challenges in a game, they are only human after all. You weren't complaining when we were lucky not to have a penalty against us at Arsenal. And that's not the only time we've been lucky of late...

Pedersen could easily have got himself booked a second time, yet you're not emphasizing this issue. To say that Barton is a nasty player is fine, but we have one or two of those ourself i.e. Savage (though he has improved somewhat), the now departed Lucash dealt out challenges like that as if they were legal - remember Carragher?

We've been having the short end of the stick in many games, if you look at refs. This one wasn't bad at all.

[Fife Rover]

Allright, that seems to be a bad tackle. But there are a lot bad tackles around, goodness, Blackburn has dealt more than their share of those challenges. We're not in a position to complain that our players are unfairly being hounded by other team's players, nor do I feel we ought to be. Are we not having a laugh at Arsene Whinger for this exact behaviour, let's not go down that same road. Refs miss out on some challenges in a game, they are only human after all. You weren't complaining when we were lucky not to have a penalty against us at Arsenal. And that's not the only time we've been lucky of late...

Pedersen could easily have got himself booked a second time, yet you're not emphasizing this issue. To say that Barton is a nasty player is fine, but we have one or two of those ourself i.e. Savage (though he has improved somewhat), the now departed Lucash dealt out challenges like that as if they were legal - remember Carragher?

So you think that a player deliberately setting out to cripple another player is all in the game do you?

Well I'll tell you what I think! If any player in any team including Rovers deliberately sets out to cripple another player and I could get the evidence against him I would personally give it to the police never mind the football authorities because they cant be relied on to sort anything out. I would expect criminal proceedings to be started and if the offender was found guilty they should be jailed. They should also be banned from playing football sine die. Something which used to happen occasionally in the 40's and 50's but seems to have died out since then.

[blue phil]

A bit harsh , Fife .... :ph34r:

[Fife Rover]

A bit harsh , Fife .... :ph34r:

You think so? Well let's put it another way: Supposing you are going about your lawful business in the street or wherever, and some person (for whatever reason as they see it) decides to quite DELIBERATELY attack you and INTENTIONALLY to cripple you or blind you or in any other way to purposely render you incapable of going on with your normal occupation on which you are reliant for your income. And the crucial element in this attack is the delberate intent to injure you so severely that you will not be able to continue in your occupation.

If that happened to you or even if somebody attempted it, what would your reaction be if the authorities and most of the general public were dismissive about it, saying it is just one of those things. get used to it, it happens etc, etc?

Well my opinion (and I make no apology for it because none is necessary) is that it bloody well ought NOT to happen either on a football field or ANYWHERE. It does happen far more often now than it ever used to for the simple reason that we the public ALLOW it happen by not condemning such behaviour outright. We tolerate it because we have lost the will and the knowledge of how to prevent such behaviour, and there is no political will to change the laws necessary to restore the kind of public order and safety that were taken for granted 50 years ago.

[rover_groo]

That was a pretty severe tackle on Toog's standing foot and could have been sent off for that one.

From what I'm going to say, I'm sure that one or two footballers on here will have done this before. I'm guilty of the above, as I could be a split second late, if the opponent sells me a dummie (ie Derbyshire nutmegged me on three occasions in about 4-5 mins of football), but I will never hit a standing leg as the ball isn't anywhere near it. Usually the passing foot is something I could clip and it's very accidental.

If I mention 'clip', it is a clip and not the dirty stand and scrap of the studs that Barton the little tramp done. This needs to be revised and followed on as it will cause calf and achilles injuries.

[blue phil]

If someone tried to maim me it would be out of order because I'm not a footballer , rugby player or ....God forbid , a boxer .

In sport people are always going to get injured - even intentionally ; it's part of the risk involved . Now I'm not saying the police and lawyers should never , ever get involved ....but I don't think there was anything in the City game that came anywhere close to warrant such intervention .

With all due respect , Fife , I hope you never watch rugby - some of those characters would laugh at Barton's attempt to "cripple" the Great Tugay . I don't like Barton as a person (from what I've seen of him) and wouldn't like us to sign him but I've seen plenty of tackles worse than that at all levels of the game . They have to be sorted out by the refs or , at pro level , by the league - nothing more serious than that or the game really will turn out to be a non contact sport .

[Pugg]

To say that Barton is a nasty player is fine, but we have one or two of those ourself i.e. Savage (though he has improved somewhat), the now departed Lucash dealt out challenges like that as if they were legal - remember Carragher?

Even though you say 'he has improved', I feel I have to comment on this quote about Savage. I don't think anyone could ever call him a nasty player, now or previously.

To play against he must be annoying, hard work and 'in your face' but I can't say nasty. I think he has got this reputation because he runs around, goes in for the 50-50's and doesn't give players room to breath. This idea of him being nasty is just a media driven myth.

If he was as he is portrayed, then he would have been sent off more than once...and even that was for a hand ball (which should never have been given).

Neill and Todd on the other hand....

[Fife Rover]

If someone tried to maim me it would be out of order because I'm not a footballer , rugby player or ....God forbid , a boxer .

In sport people are always going to get injured - even intentionally ; it's part of the risk involved . Now I'm not saying the police and lawyers should never , ever get involved ....but I don't think there was anything in the City game that came anywhere close to warrant such intervention .

With all due respect , Fife , I hope you never watch rugby - some of those characters would laugh at Barton's attempt to "cripple" the Great Tugay . I don't like Barton as a person (from what I've seen of him) and wouldn't like us to sign him but I've seen plenty of tackles worse than that at all levels of the game . They have to be sorted out by the refs or , at pro level , by the league - nothing more serious than that or the game really will turn out to be a non contact sport .

I most certainly do watch Rugby Phil. And what's more I played Rugby as well as football for my various ships teams throughout my Naval career. I also boxed and have the Med Fleet silver medal for boxing from the 1953 fleet championships.

I would also add that in all those sports and others that I took part in during my service, such as Athletics (field and track) Hockey, sailing and rowing, I was never once injured in any way other than the odd rap from a hockey stick or kick due to mis-timed tackle. And strange though it may seem to you in all the Rugby games I played (at wing 3/4) I cannot remeber even getting the slightest knock or injury. Got quite a few in Footie though.

[thenodrog]

Well I'll tell you what I think! If any player in any team including Rovers deliberately sets out to cripple another player and I could get the evidence against him I would personally give it to the police never mind the football authorities because they cant be relied on to sort anything out. I would expect criminal proceedings to be started and if the offender was found guilty they should be jailed. They should also be banned from playing football sine die. Something which used to happen occasionally in the 40's and 50's but seems to have died out since then.

That reminds me.......... Has Christophe Dugarry retrieved (and returned) Andy Todds boot yet?

[den]

Can we not just enjoy the win without winging on about the ref. We get more than our fair share of dodgy refs but why are we getting upset about this 1. He did nowt wrong as far as I'm concerned. There were a few bad tackles for wehich he rightly booked people and there's no way he could not have sent The Axe off and he knew it straight away. To be honest we probably had the rub of the green in both games against Arsenal so they're not all bad.

Question:

What would your opinion be if he had snapped Tugays Achilles. - Unlucky, find another job?

[Tris]

If someone tried to maim me it would be out of order because I'm not a footballer , rugby player or ....God forbid , a boxer .

In sport people are always going to get injured - even intentionally ; it's part of the risk involved . Now I'm not saying the police and lawyers should never , ever get involved ....but I don't think there was anything in the City game that came anywhere close to warrant such intervention .

With all due respect , Fife , I hope you never watch rugby - some of those characters would laugh at Barton's attempt to "cripple" the Great Tugay . I don't like Barton as a person (from what I've seen of him) and wouldn't like us to sign him but I've seen plenty of tackles worse than that at all levels of the game . They have to be sorted out by the refs or , at pro level , by the league - nothing more serious than that or the game really will turn out to be a non contact sport .

I think that is a very sensible post, pretty much sums up the incidents and aftermath from Sunday ...

I most certainly do watch Rugby Phil. And what's more I played Rugby as well as football for my various ships teams throughout my Naval career. I also boxed and have the Med Fleet silver medal for boxing from the 1953 fleet championships.

I would also add that in all those sports and others that I took part in during my service, such as Athletics (field and track) Hockey, sailing and rowing, I was never once injured in any way other than the odd rap from a hockey stick or kick due to mis-timed tackle. And strange though it may seem to you in all the Rugby games I played (at wing 3/4) I cannot remeber even getting the slightest knock or injury. Got quite a few in Footie though.

Fife - many sportsmen (and women) go through their entire careers without injury. I'm not going to argue with you (mainly because you've got a medal for boxing ) but (as an ex-Reservist in the RN) I'd suggest that:

rowing and sailing don't attract the sort of injury being discussed here (I've done both with some success)

even contact sport in that environment is played with an extra degree of respect for the opponent. There is a bigger picture involved - as indeed there is for anyone who plays any sport at the weekend but goes back to the rent paying grind on Monday.

Sure - Barton is an idiot, and in the context of Moko getting red, Barton should probably have gone as well. But there are bigger fish to fry, we won, we're losing the tag our own tough approach landed us with 24 months ago - it's time to forgive forget and move on.

[neekoy]

The point is that in Rugby, Boxing and the like the ultimate aim is too hurt your opponent through a smashing body on body tackle or knocking their block off.

Football is about skill with the feet and a quick mind, it is not a sport intended for physical contact beyond going for the ball at someones feet.

[thenodrog]

......... we're losing the tag our own tough approach landed us with 24 months ago - it's time to forgive forget and move on.

I'm not sure that that is a good thing. I quite liked our Dogs of War attitude, in fact it's the first time in my life that BRFC have played away and actually intimidated opposition teams and not been intimidated ourselves.

I guess the message that we failed to get across but should continue to try to is the old adage 'Hard but Fair'..... and then no one can complain about that! I rarely see our players doing as Barton did, similarly I rarely see Rovers players going to ground without reason simply in an attempt to con the ref to award a free kick and caution / send off opponents and worse staying there only to perform a miraculous recovery after 20 seconds on the touchline.

imo The Fair Play league (that we are constantly well up in ) is fundamentally flawed and does not in any way reflect what it was designed to do.

[gazsimm]

I'm not sure that that is a good thing. I quite liked our Dogs of War attitude, in fact it's the first time in my life that BRFC have played away and actually intimidated opposition teams and not been intimidated ourselves.

I guess the message that we failed to get across but should continue to try to is the old adage 'Hard but Fair'..... and then no one can complain about that! I rarely see our players doing as Barton did, similarly I rarely see Rovers players going to ground without reason simply in an attempt to con the ref to award a free kick and caution / send off opponents and worse staying there only to perform a miraculous recovery after 20 seconds on the touchline.

imo The Fair Play league (that we are constantly well up in ) is fundamentally flawed and does not in any way reflect what it was designed to do.

the football we are playing now is far better, then when we had the bully team tag. so i like to say we have moved on

[USABlue]

That reminds me.......... Has Christophe Dugarry retrieved (and returned) Andy Todds boot yet?

Yes TND he has but now his toilet won't flush.