[Archived] Formula 1

[Andy_f]

how well off are McLaren? $100m fine is a huge amount of money - also they will lose income for their constructors points - i hope this doesn't affect them for future seasons!

I guess that Ferrari have now won the constructors title then? - thats all they are going to win this year as well! ha!

[yoda]

Who is lucky?

Ferrari? Again for being helped out by the FIA ( Ferrari`s independant assistants )?

Ask anyone who knows and follows the sport, especially those working at the top and you`ll find the punishment is beyond belief as has been the witch hunt of Ron Dennis.

Good for Ron for sticking around and I hope his team stick it up the Ferraris for a long time to come.

I`ve been following this case avidly since it became public months ago and the politics involved make getting in to number 10 childs play.

There is far,far more to it than meets the eye.

I`ll give you one of the very simple examples.

McLaren`s points have been deducted because its basically judged their car was designed using illegal means.

However, the drivers can use the illegal car to score points!?!

Wouldn`t want to spoil Lewis`s party and spoil the best title fight in a decade would we?

As long as Ferrari pick up their constructors cup.

It just does not make sense.

And that is just the tip of an incredibly complex ice berg.

The FIA have shot themselves in the foot again, they can't afford to cock up the drivers table and yet they have to bow to Ferrari. If the additonal evidence of the emails with Alonso is correct, he should have been punished as well, the immunity he negotiated could result in Maclaren being finished if the appeal is thrown out, free reign for Ferrari again!

I am pretty sure if it was a court of law Maclaren could not be held responsible for rogue employees that have been suspended or fired

[Blueboy Downunder]

i am jsut glad that the fia didn't choose to punish lewis and alonso for this. ok, something very fishy has gone on, but where is the actual proof that both of the mclaren cars benefitted from that information. from the results in the last month it is obvious to me that neither has. did i hear or read somewhere that alonso is a possibility not to be at mclaren next season??

just read an article on the beeb website and i never knew taht alonso threatened to go to the fia with evidence after he had that row with ron dennis at the hungarian GP. for a bloke to threaten to do this to his own team, deserves to have his contract cancelled with immediate effect. ron dennis and he might hve a bad relationship but at least dennis is trying to win a championship for either of his drivers and not threatening stuff...this is rediculous. i recokn alonso is so jealous of lewis, because he is a rookie that won't take a backward step and refuses to let the more senior driver have it all his own way, as it seems that alonso is crying about.

[AlanK]

Well, after two hours in the rain and fog, after being punted off the track, Lewis kept it together to win as double world champion Alonso put it in to the wall.

12 points clear with two races to go.

Come on Lewis.

[bblue]

how well off are McLaren? $100m fine is a huge amount of money - also they will lose income for their constructors points - i hope this doesn't affect them for future seasons!

I guess that Ferrari have now won the constructors title then? - thats all they are going to win this year as well! ha!

it's not that big an amount in Formula 1 and the constructor's championship isn't that highly valued anyway. they got off quite easily as there was strong talk that they could be banned for this year as well as the next. Not taking part in the races would have been the real blow.

As for the logic in the team being deducted points, but not the drivers, the explanation seems to be in the sources for the FIA's enquiry. It looks like Alonso has offered his full cooperation in exchange for the drivers being allowed to keep the points. I guess he'd have liked just Hamilton being penalised but you can't discriminate between the two.

[Andy_f]

Well, after two hours in the rain and fog, after being punted off the track, Lewis kept it together to win as double world champion Alonso put it in to the wall.

12 points clear with two races to go.

Come on Lewis.

what a different race it was too - enjoyed it though! fair play to lewis, what a driver - hope he wins it!!

[bblue]

what a different race it was too - enjoyed it though! fair play to lewis, what a driver - hope he wins it!!

In all honesty he has been brilliant this year and thoroughly deserves the championship title. And looking as if he can't be caught anymore.

[bblue]

Hamilton to lead the grid tomorrow. Looks like the final nail in the coffin for this year's title.

[Roar of the Rover]

Hamilton to lead the grid tomorrow. Looks like the final nail in the coffin for this year's title.

Ooops!

Nah, he can still do it. But it's a 3 horse race now.

[Rovers Air Force]

Bugger... the race in 2 weeks is going to be like the last 10 mns in the rugby yesterday, MY HEART CAN'T TAKE THIS SH1T!

[bblue]

Although I think the title is in hands anyway, at least it keeps the season thrilling until the end. Brazil is a tricky track to race on and I expect Ferrari to finally hand Raikkonen full support, even though Massa will be on home soil.

[Andy_f]

why oh why didn't McLaren bring lewis in 5 laps earlier? he was losing so much time - points are better than no points, even if it meant he had to make an extra pit stop! i feel for lewis as it looks like a driving error - hope he can get the job done in a couple weeks time!

[Blueboy Downunder]

yes andy i agree because i was quietly screaming at the tv, telling lewis's race engineer to bring him in 7 or 8 laps before they decided to and when he went into the gravel trap at the entry to pit straight i was in disbelief..."this can't be happening"!! this now makes the battle for pole position at interlagos absolutely crucial, because more often than not, whoever is on pole wins the race. will be interesting to see maclarens race tactics knwoing that lewis is a podium away from a world title and currently leading the standings, but alonso also has a chance to win if he wins the race and lewis finishes out of the top 3.

[pg]

I admit to cheering and laughing my head off when Lewis stuck in the gravel.... :ph34r:

[bblue]

I admit to cheering and laughing my head off when Lewis stuck in the gravel.... :ph34r:

You're not alone...

[AlanK]

I know what you mean.

God forbid we have a Brit genuinely good at something

Come on the foreign guy

[AlanK]

COME ON LEWIS

[AlanK]

I admit to cheering and laughing my head off when Lewis stuck in the gravel.... :ph34r:

You won`t be laughing when Alonso is at your gaff next year whinging and bitching how unfair it is that Heiki or Nelson are kicking his arse.

The guy is a morale drainer. Imagine doing to you what he has done to the McLaren techs this year!?!

I love the guy`s attacking style on track but off track he is a ######.

[Blueboy Downunder]

alonso is a fabulous driver, ther are no doubts about that but his actions alan off the track, i agree with you. the way he has carried himself through the media and his actions are making him look like a total hypocrit (correct spelling). was it not at the very start of the season that he came out and said somewhere that he expected to be the number one driver on the team and not be challenged by a rookie driver who is ahead of him in the standings....reading between the lines, he was really saying that he reckoned he should have the better car and not have to fight for the points with lewis. fast forward 3 months and what is he doing now...screaming and complaining to the FIA about equality within the team so that lewis doesn't get a better car for the most important race of the season. alonso has well and truely had his ass handed to him this seaon and i hope that lewis can do the business next weekend.

COME ON LAD!!!!

[pg]

Don't believe everything you read in the British press about Alonso's 'antics'.

E.g. About half way through the season, Ron forbid Alonso paying his race team bonus money (which has been standard practise in pit lane ever since the days of Fangio). The Telegraph picked up on this, and reported it as 'Alonso pays team-members to sabotage Lewis'

Alonso is a great moaner, but so was Prost and he did OK. Mansell was the biggest moaner of his generation and he won plenty of GP's.

Renault would love to have Alonso and Heikki driving for them next year. The difference is that Flavio knows how to manage the egos of his drivers... Ron doesn't. Ask Juan and Kimi.

AlanD - Alonso didn't do much 'morale draining' when he won back-to-back World Championships.

In the end, a lot of this reflects badly on Ron as it shows again that his man management skills are lacking. He's also making a rod for his own back in the long run, as which other top-line driver would want to front up against Lewis knowing that he's got the 100% backing of Ron?

And.. what happens in five years time when the next 'Lewis' comes along... how will Lewis deal with it then?

I think Lewis is a fantastic talent who could potentially break of all Schumacher's records. I also think he has the potential to make Schumacher look humble.

Ron has created a special situation with him, and is now effectively building the entire team around him a la Schumacher at Ferrari. Maybe its a more effective method for winning championships.. but it sure does create boring racing. Especially when team orders are enforced a la Austria in 2002 (?).

[AlanK]

Can`t say I really dissagree with anything you say there PG.

However, although it is wrong to be a good loser in a sport as competetive as F1, Alonso is well known to be a real pain in the arse when things are not going his way.

I know McLaren favour Hamilton but to turn your own team in because you can`t hack getting beaten by someone never mind a rookie is low to say the least.

Having said that, I do understand that things can get tweaked and none of us will probably ever know exactly what has happened.

Its certainly got everone interested again though.

[yoda]

Don't believe everything you read in the British press about Alonso's 'antics'.

E.g. About half way through the season, Ron forbid Alonso paying his race team bonus money (which has been standard practise in pit lane ever since the days of Fangio). The Telegraph picked up on this, and reported it as 'Alonso pays team-members to sabotage Lewis'

Alonso is a great moaner, but so was Prost and he did OK. Mansell was the biggest moaner of his generation and he won plenty of GP's.

Renault would love to have Alonso and Heikki driving for them next year. The difference is that Flavio knows how to manage the egos of his drivers... Ron doesn't. Ask Juan and Kimi.

AlanD - Alonso didn't do much 'morale draining' when he won back-to-back World Championships.

In the end, a lot of this reflects badly on Ron as it shows again that his man management skills are lacking. He's also making a rod for his own back in the long run, as which other top-line driver would want to front up against Lewis knowing that he's got the 100% backing of Ron?

And.. what happens in five years time when the next 'Lewis' comes along... how will Lewis deal with it then?

I think Lewis is a fantastic talent who could potentially break of all Schumacher's records. I also think he has the potential to make Schumacher look humble.

Ron has created a special situation with him, and is now effectively building the entire team around him a la Schumacher at Ferrari. Maybe its a more effective method for winning championships.. but it sure does create boring racing. Especially when team orders are enforced a la Austria in 2002 (?).

Actually I think its down to Alonso not being named as the number 1 driver, they are both equal standing in the "TEAM" and Alonso can't hack it

[pg]

When Alonso signed for McLaren in 2005 their current drivers were Kimi Raikkonen and Juan Pablo. Alonso would not have expected preferential treatment (or indeed been given it) over either of these drives.

The whole 'Alonso blackmail incident' was initiated by Hamilton who went against the team strategy in final qualifying in Hungary. For those who don't know, the final 15 minutes of the session means that at various tracks on the calendar, one driver will get three 'hot laps' whilst the other will only get two (because you can't simultaneously service both cars). At Hungary it was Alonso's turn to get the extra lap (just as Lewis got the extra lap in Silverstone). However, Lewis dis-obeyed the team strategy and did his own thing. Alonso then retaliated in the pits. The FIA then penalised Alonso.. McLaren did very little and the rest is history.

From what we have read, Alonso did NOT approach Max after Hungary. He threatened to do so to Ron... but apparently the next morning (when cooler heads prevailed) shook hands and said 'let forget it'. Apparently, sometime tipped off Bernie the following day that the McLaren drivers had key evidence which could incriminate McLaren. Was it Alonso? His manager? Or someone else? (Personally, I think it was Flavio).

Regardless, I think its crazy to blame Alonso for 'going against his team' when hundreds of engineers at McLaren knowingly used unlawfully obtained information and then tried unsuccessfully to cover it up.

Additionally, it is quite telling that Hamilton has had no involvement in the 'spy scandal'. In fact his main defence was 'its only my first year in F1. I have nothing to do with the technical development of the car.' In which case.. you're not doing your job properly!!

Plus, it also means that Alonso's moans that 'I'm doing all the car development and getting no credit/reward' are probably true. Not that such scenarios haven't happened before. Damon Hill got a huge boost in 1993 when he had access to all of Prost's telemetry. It made Hill a much faster driver and he could learn from all of Alain's experience.

All drivers are pains-in-the-arse when things don't go their way. Prost and Mansell would sulk, Senna would just ram people off the road at 200 km/h. Schuey didn't moan that much, because he was undisputed #1 whose team-mates had to move over for him.

Additionally, part of the reason I can't stand Lewis is due to ITV and James Allen, Steve Ryder and Mark Blundell. I'm sure if I was in another country watching another network's commentary feed he wouldn't annoy me as much.

Also - rookies have (almost) won world championships before, Jacques Villeneuve came very close in 1996. I still think Hamilton is favourite to do it.

[roversyoyo]

Also - rookies have (almost) won world championships before, Jacques Villeneuve came very close in 1996. I still think Hamilton is favourite to do it.

Villeneuve was hardly a "rookie" when it came to the top level at motorsport. He had been at the top of his game in indycar for a while before Williams signed him.

Shouldn't really judge the lad on tv over hyping. I just think it's great that we have a brit fighting for the champinship again and in my opinion doing it in style.

[Hasta]

Don't worry pg. Hamilton is British. That means becoming a national hero through glorious faliure.