[Archived] Manchester United Away

[bob fleming]

Skill gets you nowhere if you don't apply it to something.

Arte et Labore

[broadsword]

Doesn't that mean "Set menu"?

[b12_simon]

No I'd be presumably happier if he started doing something with this 'bags of skill'.

You tell me when McCarthy last had a decent game? To me its well over 2 months and goals or no goals 2 months is nearly a third of the season and not good enough - people can accept poor performances now and again but not consistently.

Some of the other players don't have the skill or the talent that he obviously posesses, yet they still manage to perform with what they have - Mokoena was doubted by many including me but he seems to be upping his performances and at least gives it his all - now ask yourself the question of whether McCarthy does that.

Our season could well be over come a week next Monday, do you think McCarthy is playing like he wants to get something from it as he could be the difference that puts us into Final if he can be arsed.

Skill gets you nowhere if you don't apply it to something.

Sure he's had a dip in form. This happens to all players. It doesn't mean they're lazy or have gone @#/? or any other mud teh boo boys care to sling at them. McCarthy's been one of the bargains of the season and could do with the supporters on his side!

[CAPT KAYOS]

Sure he's had a dip in form. This happens to all players. It doesn't mean they're lazy or have gone @#/? or any other mud teh boo boys care to sling at them. McCarthy's been one of the bargains of the season and could do with the supporters on his side!

A dip ??? 2+ months :ph34r:

Don't think anybody has said he is @#/? , just doing what he should or at least trying to anyway.

He could well have been (still could be) the bargain of the season if he decides to start doing something (and takes the stupid gloves off) and maybe the supporters might just be on his side of he starts to play like he wants to play for ours.

Could be he is carrying an injury we don't know ( shouldn't be playing if he is), however there has been no mention so could there be something else??

But a dip in form - you can have a dip in form but you don't lose the effort.

[b12_simon]

A dip ??? 2+ months :ph34r:

Don't think anybody has said he is @#/? , just doing what he should or at least trying to anyway.

He could well have been (still could be) the bargain of the season if he decides to start doing something (and takes the stupid gloves off) and maybe the supporters might just be on his side of he starts to play like he wants to play for ours.

Could be he is carrying an injury we don't know ( shouldn't be playing if he is), however there has been no mention so could there be something else??

But a dip in form - you can have a dip in form but you don't lose the effort.

He's never had a high workrate (not for us at least) - he's not that sort of player. As has been said elswhere on this board, in Rovers' price range we either get skill with no workrate or grafters without the skill (arte or labore if you like). Strikers with both go to top clubs for silly money. I'd love us to get (and hang onto) one, but that's just dreaming.

2 pens at the TrotterDome aside, Benni hasn't scored since Watford, when Sav was carried off. His workrate (IMO) hasn't changed, but (IMO) the number and quality of balls he's been getting has.

[Hasta]

It is strange that his performances deteriorated about the same time the supposed bust up with Sparky hit the papers.

[CAPT KAYOS]

He's never had a high workrate (not for us at least) - he's not that sort of player. As has been said elswhere on this board, in Rovers' price range we either get skill with no workrate or grafters without the skill (arte or labore if you like). Strikers with both go to top clubs for silly money. I'd love us to get (and hang onto) one, but that's just dreaming.

2 pens at the TrotterDome aside, Benni hasn't scored since Watford, when Sav was carried off. His workrate (IMO) hasn't changed, but (IMO) the number and quality of balls he's been getting has.

Mmmmm quality balls - I wouldn't say he has really had any quality service personally - the majority of his goals have either been tap ins or very good strikes created by himself -which in my book would suggest he is not doing something he was doing before - which I feel is quite apparent to everybody.

The annoying aspect is we all know he is better than he is showing, so questions have to be asked and criticism aired.

Possibly a side effect of being a half decent player.

[Fife Rover]

Mmmmm quality balls - I wouldn't say he has really had any quality service personally - the majority of his goals have either been tap ins or very good strikes created by himself -which in my book would suggest he is not doing something he was doing before - which I feel is quite apparent to everybody.

The annoying aspect is we all know he is better than he is showing, so questions have to be asked and criticism aired.

Possibly a side effect of being a half decent player.

Let's be realistic. The last time Benni really showed what he is capable of was when he got dropped for the Arsenal match then came on off the bench and scored the winner, only to immediately take himself off again and go back to subs bench. That was a disgracefull display of pique of the kind you only expect to see from a spoilt little child, and was obviously intended to to send a message to MH saying "how dare you drop me; dont you know who I am?" He may have fooled some of you with his contrived story of his agreement with Roberts, but he doesn't fool me. That was the height of arrogance from a player with a hugely inflated ego, and it is the very same thing that got him permanently removed from the managers plans at Porto.

Now I know the value of the guy to Rovers, but if he wants to play silly buggers with MH and the rest of his team mates then he needs a short sharp lesson that he may be a star but NOBODY is bigger than this club and he had better remember it.

MH took him on when no other club in the Prem wanted him in spite of his declared ambition to play in the "biggest league in the world". He would do well to rember this and come down to earth and start earning his crust. Perhaps then he will get the respect and adoration he so obviously craves.

[USABlue]

Let's be realistic. The last time Benni really showed what he is capable of was when he got dropped for the Arsenal match then came on off the bench and scored the winner, only to immediately take himself off again and go back to subs bench. That was a disgracefull display of pique of the kind you only expect to see from a spoilt little child, and was obviously intended to to send a message to MH saying "how dare you drop me; dont you know who I am?" He may have fooled some of you with his contrived story of his agreement with Roberts, but he doesn't fool me. That was the height of arrogance from a player with a hugely inflated ego, and it is the very same thing that got him permanently removed from the managers plans at Porto.

Now I know the value of the guy to Rovers, but if he wants to play silly buggers with MH and the rest of his team mates then he needs a short sharp lesson that he may be a star but NOBODY is bigger than this club and he had better remember it.

MH took him on when no other club in the Prem wanted him in spite of his declared ambition to play in the "biggest league in the world". He would do well to rember this and come down to earth and start earning his crust. Perhaps then he will get the respect and adoration he so obviously craves.

Very well summed up Fife. Mark my words if he is or has tried to play games with Hughes his tenure here is finished, I think we've seen clearly enough what happens if you don't like Sparky's plans.

[LeChuck]

Very well summed up Fife. Mark my words if he is or has tried to play games with Hughes his tenure here is finished, I think we've seen clearly enough what happens if you don't like Sparky's plans.

If that is the case then it is vitally important the club handles the situation correctly.

Come the end of the season there will be a few clubs willing to pay big money for McCarthy. If any rumours of a falling out are leaked to the media, however, his value will significantly drop. Whatever his true situation come the end of the season, the public impression has to be that he's still first choice striker at this club.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Now I know the value of the guy to Rovers, but if he wants to play silly buggers with MH and the rest of his team mates then he needs a short sharp lesson that he may be a star but NOBODY is bigger than this club and he had better remember it.

MH took him on when no other club in the Prem wanted him in spite of his declared ambition to play in the "biggest league in the world". He would do well to rember this and come down to earth and start earning his crust. Perhaps then he will get the respect and adoration he so obviously craves.

Exactly what I am getting at FR and as you say its not just Sparky and the players he is playing silly buggers with if he wants the adoration ( yet for some it would appear he seems to have conned them - much the same as Bert MK1 did to many)

[philipl]

Let me just do a reality check here.

Are we discussing the best goal scorer Rovers have had in the Premiership since Chris Sutton?

[CAPT KAYOS]

Let me just do a reality check here.

Are we discussing the best goal scorer Rovers have had in the Premiership since Chris Sutton?

No, we are talking about McCarthy

[Jan]

Let me just do a reality check here.

Are we discussing the best goal scorer Rovers have had in the Premiership since Chris Sutton?

My thought exactly. He can be as lazy as he likes if he scores lots of goals.

[USRoverME]

A thought just occurred to me, and well, I don't have the ability to re-watch all the matches to see if this is right/possible, but...

Okay so Benni hasn't been scoring, but Derbs has. And it seem slike Derb's goals are coming from crosses mostly. So why is he so open in front of net?

Is it possible that even with his low work rate, Benni is getting himself in danger-areas and occupying defenders at dangerous times/places taking the attention away from Derbs and letting him bang them in?

Its true that scoring goals is the most important part fo the game, and of the striking postition, but you have to be able to set them up as well, both in terms of passing and spacing.

Again, I can't confirm this, and I haven't been watching for it, but is it possible?

[joey_big_nose]

MH took him on when no other club in the Prem wanted him in spite of his declared ambition to play in the "biggest league in the world". He would do well to rember this and come down to earth and start earning his crust. Perhaps then he will get the respect and adoration he so obviously craves.

I agree that Benni has been poor recently but thats just incorrect. A large number of clubs wanted him in the summer and it is to Hughes' credit we got him.

And it is also true that a large number of clubs will want him again in the summer. If we want to sell we will have no problems doing so for a relatively large fee (providing there is no clause).

We are in the classic situation of a smaller club having a world class player. He can mess us around if he likes, a la Anelka or Viduka, as he is secure inthe knowledge that other teams will want him so he holds a lot of bargaining cards. Its unfortunate that he appears to be doing so.

All in all we need McCarthy at present. THe ideal two situations that either we can get them to put the work in or we can find a player who has both skill and desire. THe sad fact of it is the latter are extremely rare. You are probably talking of only fifteen or so strikers in the Prem who have around his or more quality (Anelka, Drogba, Saha, Rooney, Berbatov, Keane, Bellamy, Martins, Kuyt, Henry, Viduka, Yakubu, D Bent, Tevez, Ashton at a stretch, maybe a couple more i missed). All of those are either ludicrously expensive or have attitude problems of their own.

The chances of Hughes, even with his excellent scouting network, of unearthing a player who has all the attributes of a world class striker are minimal. So before we look to drive out McCarthy lets make sure we are not being rash. He is the third top scorer in the league and even if he is not running around defenders will see him on the teamsheet and be apprahensive, and he always provides the possibility of a little bit of magic and space for Derbyshire as the opposition will always be looking for the South African. And remember just how cheap we got him- we got outstandingvalue for money. You have to contextualise these things.

Personally I would just drop him for Villa again and bring him on second half. But really without being in the changing roomm it i is hard to see what is required.

[blue phil]

That's a good post , Joey and it highlights a growing factor within the game ...and that is the worsening alienation between players and fans . For the money we pay we now get damned peeved if the players don't put in what Nelsen calls "a full shift" - the goals and bits of skill don't always compensate ; although to some of those non payers who watch the game from abroad on the TV it may seem to .

Nelsen's comments are quite revealing in that there could be a bit of friction within the camp - how many times this season have we seen one good half and one indifferent half of a game ?

Whatever the case our season will end at OT if we continue the trend .

[USRoverME]

although to some of those non payers who watch the game from abroad on the TV it may seem to .

As always, I love those digs. Thanks for belitting both my intelligence and my willingness to spend my money on things related to the club. Glad to know it means nothing. I'm sure the wife would gladly use the money for something else.

[American]

I would think he's more talking about those in England watching it on dodgy Arabic channels in the pub....

Legitimate overseas TV rights pay the club about 5 million pounds a year.

[salothsar]

That's a good post , Joey and it highlights a growing factor within the game ...and that is the worsening alienation between players and fans . For the money we pay we now get damned peeved if the players don't put in what Nelsen calls "a full shift" - the goals and bits of skill don't always compensate ; although to some of those non payers who watch the game from abroad on the TV it may seem to .

I agree. Anyone who is paying match day prices has a right to expect the players to do their best. As soon as one is seen to be relaxing/being lazy of course fans will be on their back, quite right too.

It isn't only paying fans who expect this though. I am one of those "non payers who watch the game from abroad on TV" and it pisses me off when Benni ambles around with his hands on his hips as well.

[Ozz]

After suggesting many pub choices for pre match on Saturday, we ended up staying in just one-The Britons Protection on Bridgewater St, at the back of the GMEX. As usual, the adverstised opening hours were strictly ignored, and we got in at 12.05 pm.

I can strongly recommend the ale (Robinsons bitter and Lowenbrau Lager), the food (Game pie and wild boar pie) and service too.

View from the back door!

Taxi to Old Trafford, managed to avoid not buying anything from the Cairo style multitude of street vendors, who offered virtually everything you could ever want in your life, with a Man Utd logo or image on, which was horrible. The view inside the ground was impressive, the weather was super but for £36 you would think the could provide a seat that doesn't actually touch the seat in the next row.

Click here for an impressive photo if the ground, taken just after Derbs had scored.

Click Here

I have several bruises on my knees still. I was sat around 8 rows behind Jordan, and around 20 seats to the left of Jack Straw.

As for match, we gave as good as we had, but on the day United would have tubbed anyone. Too much for us, and Scholes just amazed me how well he played. Nice to see a bit of tradition coming back into football, a sound beating at Old Trafford!