[Archived] Englandfans The New Tartan Army

[jim mk2]

Scotland fans know we don't win anything. We expect failure, which is why our behaviour is as it is (ie we don't get annoyed at losing).

And we're NOT a leading football nation- we have one tenth the population of England- if that. However we know it!

There were some very annoyed people in Scotland when, after the hype of the send-off from Hampden, Ally Macleod's team sunk without trace in Argentina in 1978 (my, how we larfed !!)

Also, thankfully in England we have a press that, while patriotic, is prepared to turn on its team when they play badly. The Scottish press, like their counterparts in convictland, are merely supporters with typewriters. Horrible.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

And I still have a copy of the letter from UEFA praising Celtic for their exemplary behaviour in Seville at the UEFA cup final.

I'll take it these 'exemplary' Celtic fans were not at Ewood then?..........................

[ABBEY]

I'll take it these 'exemplary' Celtic fans were not at Ewood then?..........................

or up in glasgow when we tried to get in a pub we got threatend with being sliced open ..crime.....wearing a blue rovers training top.

[Jan]

There were some very annoyed people in Scotland when, after the hype of the send-off from Hampden, Ally Macleod's team sunk without trace in Argentina in 1978 (my, how we larfed !!)

Also, thankfully in England we have a press that, while patriotic, is prepared to turn on its team when they play badly. The Scottish press, like their counterparts in convictland, are merely supporters with typewriters. Horrible.

29 years ago (longer than most of the contributors on here have been alive)

And going to school with Andy and Gail McLeod, I was actually one of the kids standing at the entrance to his house stopping the oiks attacking it.

[Jan]

And as for the ALLEGED incidents at Ewood or in Glasgow. How many arrests were made of non-Rovers fans? I rest my case

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Quite a few Jan by all accounts...it had been a long time since I had witnessed such a drunken and hostile following.

[ABBEY]

google celtic fans arrested...

[Billy Castell]

It is odd. When the Scottish are with Scotland, they are generally seen as happy guys having a good time, yet when the Old Firm are playing it can be very ugly. Amazing what a change of clothing can do to some people.

[Fife Rover]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ste B @ Mar 29 2007, 16:47 ) 502412[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes because Scottish Fans have always been perfect havent they.

No

Only for the past 30 years or so.

If you're talking about Scotland fans. It really is a bit pathetic for people to harp on about the 70s as if the fact that we were bad then makes up for the fact that England's fans were bad then arnd remain bad.

If you're talking about Rangers fans, they're all closet English anyway.

Come off it Jan! The only time in my entire football-watching life that I have felt in fear of my life was standing on the home end of the team I was supporting at the time (Falkirk), and being completely surrounded by wall to wall Celtic fans baying and screaming and singing their IRA supporting songs. And when they found out I was English (because I was foolish enough to remonstrate with a few of them) I quite literally had to flee for the exit and took quite a battering on the way. On arriving outside I found the nearest police officer and told him about it; he just shrugged and said "what can I do about it?" Then advised me to go home.

[McClarky]

Not sure what the original point was here. I know loads of people who go watching Scotland and they are in the main decent people who like a beer and a game of footie. Unfortunately our lot are usually scum bags who would rather embarrass themselves and their country with their obnoxious and zenophobic behaviour.. Maybe this is because Scotland traditionally have a far larger (in proportion) away support than England and so there is more of a cros ssection and also that the fans are to an extent self policing rather then the opposite that England has with people being proud to display their moronic tendencies for the world to see.

[mike at picture]

Not sure what the original point was here. I know loads of people who go watching Scotland and they are in the main decent people who like a beer and a game of footie. Unfortunately our lot are usually scum bags who would rather embarrass themselves and their country with their obnoxious and zenophobic behaviour.. Maybe this is because Scotland traditionally have a far larger (in proportion) away support than England and so there is more of a cros ssection and also that the fans are to an extent self policing rather then the opposite that England has with people being proud to display their moronic tendencies for the world to see.

Not qualified to talk about England's fans really as I havn't been to game and really couldn't give a flying one about them. The sancimonious claptrap about the "Tartan Army" does bug me though. A brief visit to one of thier m.b.s would be enought to demonstrate that many of them are nasty, xenaphobic bigots. All this "great fans" guff is b.s.

[Fife Rover]

Quite a few Jan by all accounts...it had been a long time since I had witnessed such a drunken and hostile following.

That is the very reason why for the last 25 years or so I have refused to enter any football ground in Scotland when either Rangers or Celtic are the visitors. Both these clubs are supported by hoards of people that are perfectly normal through the week but come Saturday they get in the pub for a few hours before the game and then roll down the the ground of the unfortunate home team and completely take it over (all parts). They then start up their filthy and obnoxious chants and antagonistic songs(one lot advising the most unspeakable things to be done to the Queen, and the other lot the same, but to the Pope in this case). They literally terrify the few home supporters that are brave or rather stupid enough to turn out to support their team.

Needless to say I have never set foot inside either Ibrox or Celtic Park and I never will.

[Jan]

That is the very reason why for the last 25 years or so I have refused to enter any football ground in Scotland when either Rangers or Celtic are the visitors. Both these clubs are supported by hoards of people that are perfectly normal through the week but come Saturday they get in the pub for a few hours before the game and then roll down the the ground of the unfortunate home team and completely take it over (all parts). They then start up their filthy and obnoxious chants and antagonistic songs(one lot advising the most unspeakable things to be done to the Queen, and the other lot the same, but to the Pope in this case). They literally terrify the few home supporters that are brave or rather stupid enough to turn out to support their team.

Needless to say I have never set foot inside either Ibrox or Celtic Park and I never will.

And now we're dealing with 25 years ago! Get up to date Again, I'm probably not qualified to judge, but I actually don't know any sectarian chants (which surely if they were rife I would do). Nor, to my knowledge, have I heard any IRA ones (except the moronic "no surrender" usually sung by England fans or Rovers away fans). The only pro-Irish song I know or have heard at Celtic Park is "Fields of Athenry". But then again I've only been going regularly for 7 years, and except for one (completely peaceful) game in Villareal and one (completely peaceful) game at Motherwell- when Celtic lost the title- I've never been to away matches. Maybe it's like our away following- a lot of nice people and a fair few chavs, but I don't know.

Thinking back in the mists of time, I remember a fairly unpleasant song about being "off to Dublin in the Green". I can honestly say that one hasn't reared its ugly head for years as far I as I've heard.

And I think 26 arrests and 9 banning orders is disgusting behaviour. I'm glad they banned them. Have Rovers banned the scum who were fighting in Germany yet?

[Tris]

When it comes down to it, there's no logic in saying fans of country A or club team A are any worse than country B or club team B.

I've been to a huge range of games in the last couple of years - the vast majority are Rovers games but also WC games and several games in the lower divisions.

There are always people who you frown at and think they're just idiots, but then the same is true when you go to a shopping centre or get on a bus train or tube. When there's a bunch of offensive gits on public transport, you don't suddenly link them to a particular football club or whatever. They are just idiots end of story.

So it's hardly a surprise that every one of us can cite personal experiences of idiots and link it to fans of Scotland or England or Celtic or even Rovers. There are idiots everywhere.

[AggyBlue]

Quite a few Jan by all accounts...it had been a long time since I had witnessed such a drunken and hostile following.

Agreed. They were ten times worse than the knuckle draggers from down the road.

I've never witnessed any supporters as bad, in forty odd years following Rovers home and away.

Celtic and Scotland get brought into too many topics on a message board dedicated to BRFC.

[Jan]

Agreed. They were ten times worse than the knuckle draggers from down the road.

I've never witnessed any supporters as bad, in forty odd years following Rovers home and away.

Celtic and Scotland get brought into too many topics on a message board dedicated to BRFC.

Neither of which were started by me.

[AggyBlue]

Neither of which were started by me.

I think the Mods ought to add them to the 'banned words' list..

[philipl]

Interesting fashion development.

I didn't know England fans had started wearing tartan to matches. Is this the new hoodies?

[gazsimm]

And as for the ALLEGED incidents at Ewood or in Glasgow. How many arrests were made of non-Rovers fans? I rest my case

[/quote)

I have never seen so much trouble, when Celtic came to Ewood, they were a disgrace, they were loads of them just getting drunk and looking for trouble.

With england a lot of trouble comes from scottish people, who have decided to follow England, for some strange reason

[roversWASmylife]

So it's hardly a surprise that every one of us can cite personal experiences of idiots and link it to fans of Scotland or England or Celtic or even Rovers. There are idiots everywhere.

Agreed Tris however when Celtic came to town, yes we all know they'll bring thousands and they make a lot of noise but trouble wise they on that night at Ewood were one of the worst set of fans in a long time.

[FourLaneBlue]

When it comes down to it, there's no logic in saying fans of country A or club team A are any worse than country B or club team B.

I've been to a huge range of games in the last couple of years - the vast majority are Rovers games but also WC games and several games in the lower divisions.

There are always people who you frown at and think they're just idiots, but then the same is true when you go to a shopping centre or get on a bus train or tube. When there's a bunch of offensive gits on public transport, you don't suddenly link them to a particular football club or whatever. They are just idiots end of story.

So it's hardly a surprise that every one of us can cite personal experiences of idiots and link it to fans of Scotland or England or Celtic or even Rovers. There are idiots everywhere.

Exactly. We can all name games or incidents yet all teams have their better-behaved elements and their minority looking for trouble as well. Almost all teams seem to still have a small hooligan element (and yes hooligans can be fans too) but it doesn't necessarily say anything about the rest of the support.

All this guff about "best fans in the world/country etc" is a load of claptrap. We're all just football fans it's just that some fans have to try to pretend they are better than others for some reason. Life's too short. Try and say you are a Rovers fan to an Evertonian without them mentioning levels of support in the next ten seconds for example...

[Pugg]

And now we're dealing with 25 years ago! Get up to date Again.

I thought he said for the last 25 years, not 25 years ago. That 'last 25 years' incorporates 'up to date' years.

[Jan]

I thought he said for the last 25 years, not 25 years ago. That 'last 25 years' incorporates 'up to date' years.

The incident he refers to was 25 years ago and he therefore has no more recent experience to judge from.

[b12_simon]

Interesting fashion development.

I didn't know England fans had started wearing tartan to matches. Is this the new hoodies?

We're the Burbery Army!

[Fife Rover]

And now we're dealing with 25 years ago! Get up to date Again, I'm probably not qualified to judge, but I actually don't know any sectarian chants (which surely if they were rife I would do). Nor, to my knowledge, have I heard any IRA ones (except the moronic "no surrender" usually sung by England fans or Rovers away fans). The only pro-Irish song I know or have heard at Celtic Park is "Fields of Athenry". But then again I've only been going regularly for 7 years, and except for one (completely peaceful) game in Villareal and one (completely peaceful) game at Motherwell- when Celtic lost the title- I've never been to away matches. Maybe it's like our away following- a lot of nice people and a fair few chavs, but I don't know.

Thinking back in the mists of time, I remember a fairly unpleasant song about being "off to Dublin in the Green". I can honestly say that one hasn't reared its ugly head for years as far I as I've heard.

And I think 26 arrests and 9 banning orders is disgusting behaviour. I'm glad they banned them. Have Rovers banned the scum who were fighting in Germany yet?

Jan: I am NOT intending to have a go at you, and if you feel agrieved by my posts I apologise most sincerely.

However what I have said in my two previous posts is in fact the plain unvarnished truth. The incidents I have described DID happen and although it probably is not apparent to you as a present day Celtic supporter who sits in the better seats at your matches, there are still problems at matches today (even though I am not there to see them) which I hear about from my friends who do still attend the matches against the old firm at East End Park. Apparently it still happens that both old firm groups of supporters routinely buy up virtually all the available tickets for all parts of the ground. Admittedly in the case of DAFC there will be a lot of these old firm supporters that live in or around Fife and some of them that are regular attenders at East End Park supporting DAFC except when they play Rangers/Celtic. But, not withstanding that, the problem of intimidation of the "true" home fans still exists, maybe not as bad as when we had to stand all together rammed in tightly on the old open terracing e.g. Falkirk 1984, St. Mirren 1980, Dunfermline 1987 etc. These were the occasions that put me off attending home matches to support my "own team" on grounds where I held a season ticket.

I don't want to repeat myself here, but if you have not read it already, please look back a few posts to my earlier (last night) post in which I describe my experience at one match in Falkirk (1984) at the old Brockville ground. Another extremely frightening experience was my very first visit to a football match in Scotland; the Scottish Cup match at Love St. between St. Mirren and Celtic (1979/80). I went to this match in my innocence not knowing anything about the conditions applying at all old firm matches, and actually decided to become a Celtic supporter for the night. So I paid on the gate with 1000's of other Celtic fans and stood amongst them on one of the open end terracings at Love St. Big Mistake! I was first apalled, then terrified by what I heard all around me, and my main concern was to avoid being detected as an Englishman. I was also keeping a very low profile all the way back to Glasgow Central on the train afterwards. Luckily Celtic had won so they were in a good mood. I was damned glad to get back alive to my lodgings in Pollockshields!