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[Archived] Champions League

benhben

By benhben
in Football Messageboard Archive

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Eddie World Cup

Eddie

Posted
Posted

No we wouldn't, but we've already addressed that. Our point is that our own enjoyment of the moment wouldn't turn every player and coach connected with the club into a genius. We would be delighted, it would be great for the club, but even had we won the FA Cup or UEFA this season Mark Hughes would not have become the best manager in England, Europe or the World; it would not have even made him our best manager ever. We could win the FA Cup, UEFA Cup and League Cup in the same season and I still think it would be a greater achievement to finish 4th in the league and it is for that same reason why Benitez can't be considered the best manager around. The ultimate test is the league and he's yet to really prove himself in it. Wenger, Ferguson and Mourinho have all shown themselves capable of putting together title-winning sides, he hasn't. Hell, I'd be more likely to agree with you if you said that the other manager in Liverpool was the best manager in England given that he got Everton to qualify for the Champions League (well, the qualifiers at least).

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Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
No we wouldn't, but we've already addressed that. Our point is that our own enjoyment of the moment wouldn't turn every player and coach connected with the club into a genius. We would be delighted, it would be great for the club, but even had we won the FA Cup or UEFA this season Mark Hughes would not have become the best manager in England, Europe or the World; it would not have even made him our best manager ever. We could win the FA Cup, UEFA Cup and League Cup in the same season and I still think it would be a greater achievement to finish 4th in the league and it is for that same reason why Benitez can't be considered the best manager around. The ultimate test is the league and he's yet to really prove himself in it. Wenger, Ferguson and Mourinho have all shown themselves capable of putting together title-winning sides, he hasn't. Hell, I'd be more likely to agree with you if you said that the other manager in Liverpool was the best manager in England given that he got Everton to qualify for the Champions League (well, the qualifiers at least).

So your saying they are all great managers just because they have all won the League??

Well i reckon Wengers @#/? because he's done nothing in Europe and Fegies only been to 1 Champions League Final in around 20 years whilst Benitez had already been in 2.

ewoodblue Premier League

ewoodblue

Posted
Posted
Benitez got to the Champions League Final in 2005 - They won like???

And Man United got to final as well,in.............mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,now when was it :rolleyes:

It must be in an Old Traford archive somewhere.

sussexrover Premier League

sussexrover

Posted
Posted

The point was you can hardly write off Wengers achievements (on a smaller budget than Liverpool) because Benitez got one result (a penalty shoot out) more than him in one competition. This doesn't really offset the doubles, unbeaten seasons etc. that Wenger achieved.

Rafa may prove to be a great manager at Liverpool - he's not there yet in my opinion.

Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
The point was you can hardly write off Wengers achievements (on a smaller budget than Liverpool) because Benitez got one result (a penalty shoot out) more than him in one competition. This doesn't really offset the doubles, unbeaten seasons etc. that Wenger achieved.

Rafa may prove to be a great manager at Liverpool - he's not there yet in my opinion.

Like i've said before, who cares how Liverpool won the cup?? Would you really care if we won it on penalties??? NO!!!

Billy Castell Champions League

Billy Castell

Posted
Posted

I'm definately not letting you near my house or car Roar, you might nick something ;):P:D.

rafa is not a great manager, as he has not turned Liverpool into an all conquering force on all fronts. Liverpool were a 3rd/4th place team under Houllier, and still are under Rafa. To Ferguson's defence, many of his european campaigns had been hampered by the 3 foreigner rule which meant any combination of Giggs, Schmeichel, Cantona, Hughes, Keane and/or Irwin had to miss out. Players of that quality who happen to be English are hard to come by. For me Clough is easily better than Rafa as he took two middling second division teams and won the European Cup and therefore the league title with them. Can you imagine Rafa taking, say Coventry and Ipswich to those heights?

Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
Actually, an interesting question for you would be why is Benitez a better manager than Houllier?

Because they were the Champions of Europe, i know Houllier won the UEFA Cup but thats doesn't equal the Champions League and especially how they won it, sorry but i don't think under Houllier Liverpool would have come back from 3-0 down.

Eddie World Cup

Eddie

Posted
Posted

That had nothing to do with the management. If you read any of the interviews with Carragher before this last champions league final you would have seen that they were all pretty resigned to their fate and it was really only a bit of good luck that helped them pull through, not a tactical masterstroke. A better point might well be that a better manager who had done a better job at preparing his side would not have gone in at half-time 3-0 down. I don't understand how Benitez gets some sort of extra credit for the fact that his side struggled in the final and just edged it; you wouldn't have been more impressed had they thumped AC Milan because it wouldn't have been so exciting = not such a good manager.

Essentially you are saying Benitez is a great manager because of one game. It isn't even one game, it was 6 minutes in which his side fought back. He can't be great in my opinion until he's one the title, until then the verdict is out and at the moment I would say he has been largely unimpressive.

Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
That had nothing to do with the management. If you read any of the interviews with Carragher before this last champions league final you would have seen that they were all pretty resigned to their fate and it was really only a bit of good luck that helped them pull through, not a tactical masterstroke. A better point might well be that a better manager who had done a better job at preparing his side would not have gone in at half-time 3-0 down. I don't understand how Benitez gets some sort of extra credit for the fact that his side struggled in the final and just edged it; you wouldn't have been more impressed had they thumped AC Milan because it wouldn't have been so exciting = not such a good manager.

Essentially you are saying Benitez is a great manager because of one game. It isn't even one game, it was 6 minutes in which his side fought back. He can't be great in my opinion until he's one the title, until then the verdict is out and at the moment I would say he has been largely unimpressive.

Oh get over it Eddie! It seems like you still can't take the fact that Liverpool achieved that, maybe its because you didn't expect it at the time, he's done it with the F.A Cup Final too.

It was a tactical masterstroke, he bought Didi Hamann on when they were 3-0 down, even i was suprised at that, but Hamann shut Kaka down and that also allowed Gerrard to get forward and we all know what happened after that, no he just did'nt score he also won the penalty!

Eddie World Cup

Eddie

Posted
Posted
Oh get over it Eddie! It seems like you still can't take the fact that Liverpool achieved that, maybe its because you didn't expect it at the time, he's done it with the F.A Cup Final too.

It was a tactical masterstroke, he bought Didi Hamann on when they were 3-0 down, even i was suprised at that, but Hamann shut Kaka down and that also allowed Gerrard to get forward and we all know what happened after that, no he just did'nt score he also won the penalty!

Hardly a tactical masterstroke. He was 3-0 down, what does he do? He frees up his best and most influential player by bringing on a defensive midfielder who can take over the duties that were holding his best player back, seems pretty obvious and a great manager would have had it from the start. It was an exciting game and a great final to watch, but it doesn't make someone a great manager. I don't care that Liverpool won the Champions League, that is what you don't seem to get. I was actually cheering for them on the night and I was happy when they won, but I just can't accept that Benitez is a great manager. You are seriously saying this purely on the basis of a single half of football and it is quite frankly very stupid.

Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
Hardly a tactical masterstroke. He was 3-0 down, what does he do? He frees up his best and most influential player by bringing on a defensive midfielder who can take over the duties that were holding his best player back, seems pretty obvious and a great manager would have had it from the start. It was an exciting game and a great final to watch, but it doesn't make someone a great manager. I don't care that Liverpool won the Champions League, that is what you don't seem to get. I was actually cheering for them on the night and I was happy when they won, but I just can't accept that Benitez is a great manager. You are seriously saying this purely on the basis of a single half of football and it is quite frankly very stupid.

Champions League, F.A Cup, La Liga, UEFA Cup and the Community Shield.

Eddie World Cup

Eddie

Posted
Posted
Champions League, F.A Cup, La Liga, UEFA Cup and the Community Shield.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't compare that well to the likes of Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho now does it?

Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
Fair enough, but that still doesn't compare that well to the likes of Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho now does it?

Yes it does, La Liga is the equivalent to the Premiership, Fergie, Wenger and Jose have all won the F.A Cup, so has Benitez. Wenger still hasn't done anything in Europe though.

Ronin Uefa Europa League

Ronin

Posted
Posted

But Wenger has gone a whole season undefeated. Not even Ferguson, Mourinho and Benitez have done that. And Wenger has got to the Euro Final and were 20 mins or so away from winning it.

Roar of the Rover Premier League

Roar of the Rover

Posted
Posted
But Wenger has gone a whole season undefeated. Not even Ferguson, Mourinho and Benitez have done that. And Wenger has got to the Euro Final and were 20 mins or so away from winning it.

I don't care if he was half a minute away from winning the Champions League Final, he hasn't won anything in Europe, Benitez has. How did Arsenal get knocked out in the Champions League this season?

Like they say 1st is everything , 2nd is nothing.

Eddie World Cup

Eddie

Posted
Posted
I don't care if he was half a minute away from winning the Champions League Final, he hasn't won anything in Europe, Benitez has. How did Arsenal get knocked out in the Champions League this season?

Like they say 1st is everything , 2nd is nothing.

So what's third then?

RevidgeBlue World Cup

RevidgeBlue

Posted
Posted
Like they say 1st is everything , 2nd is nothing.

As Eddie says, so where does that put Rafa's Liverpool consistently trailing in ten to twenty points behind the Champions in third or fourth place? :rolleyes:

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