[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[philipl]

A discussion on foreign ownership in the Guardian.

A contribution from Chelsea-fan pondwatcher caught my eye. As it is half way down the discussion, I have copied it in full:

The latest figures from deloittes below estimate forthcoming Pl earnings at the same level as calcio and la liga combined. You talk about something that is actually happening and then you describe it as unlikely. I'm just guessing that perhaps all the money coming into the premier league is coming in for a reason. Aspiring to the dull uncompetitive champions league seems an unlikely spur so perhaps the PL clubs have other plans of their own. In the future I envisage the four English clubs coming in directly at the last sixteen stage of the CL. This would free up dates for lucrative cup games to be played in the countries which bid highest for TV rights. The CL group stage has had its day.

Are you saying tv viewers might pay extra for a bit of rollerball type ultra stabbing and police brutality. You may have a point actually.

I do think you would find that it would take a little longer than "all of a sudden" for all the world's top players to have their contracts ripped up and moved en masse to a country like Argentina.

Miro, I can assure you I am far from ecstatic about what has happened to football. I'm just trying to be realistic and to find explanations that go beyond McCarra's scaremongering. If huge amounts of international investment capital are pouring into the Pl, there must be a reason for it. These are not naiive philanthropists.

As a Chelsea fan I should be ecstatic that my club got one of the lucky tickets but I actually miss the days of standing, singing, watching crap football and going away just for the buzz and the potential aggro.

DELOITTES:

The review reveals that whilst the changes to the Premier League clubs' financial results over the past three seasons have been fairly minimal, the combination of increases in revenue and reasonable wage cost control should see operating profits almost double to £260m in the 2007/08 season.

The 16th Annual Review of Football Finance also confirmed that the Premier League clubs remain by far the biggest earners in world football, with the top 20 clubs generating around £1.4 billion in turnover.

"We believe the relatively small changes in Premier League clubs' financial results over the past three seasons represent the calm before the storm," said Dan Jones, Partner in the Sports Business Group at Deloitte. "The new broadcasting rights deals - providing an additional £300m or so of revenue to the Premier League clubs in 2007/08, and other revenue increases, will drive overall turnover up to almost £1.8 billion."

Player transfer spending this summer, Deloitte predicts, will again likely exceed £300m, while Premier League clubs' total wages cost will still rise to over £1 billion in 2007/08.

Other key findings in the report highlighted English football's financial strength compared to its European counterparts.

English football, says Deloitte, contributed around one quarter of the total revenue of the European football market of £8.7 billion in 2006. Premier League revenue of £1.4bn in 2005/06 beat second placed Serie A (£1bn). The other 'big five' leagues are in Germany (£0.8bn), Spain (£0.8bn) and France (£0.6bn).

Meanwhile, English football's second-tier Championship clubs saw turnover grow four per cent to £318m (average of £13m per club) in 2005/06.

Below the top two divisions, " the financial position remains very challenging," says Deloitte, " but it has improved and stabilised over the past three to four years.

Appraising the future outlook for football finance, Alan Switzer, director in the Sports Business Group at Deloitte, concluded: "English clubs will continue to lead the world financially. Whilst the players will be the main financial beneficiaries from the new TV deals, English clubs will continue to invest in their stadia and youth facilities, which is a vital element of a successful business strategy.

"Over 15 per cent of revenue generated by Premier League clubs since 1992/93 - over £1.7 billion - has been invested in facilities; the 'shop window' for the game. The contrast to facilities in countries like Italy is now stark."

[S15]

Easier than counting sheep I guess.

[Fife Rover]

A discussion on foreign ownership in the Guardian.

A contribution from Chelsea-fan pondwatcher caught my eye. As it is half way down the discussion, I have copied it in full:

The latest figures from deloittes below estimate forthcoming Pl earnings at the same level as calcio and la liga combined. You talk about something that is actually happening and then you describe it as unlikely. I'm just guessing that perhaps all the money coming into the premier league is coming in for a reason. Aspiring to the dull uncompetitive champions league seems an unlikely spur so perhaps the PL clubs have other plans of their own. In the future I envisage the four English clubs coming in directly at the last sixteen stage of the CL. This would free up dates for lucrative cup games to be played in the countries which bid highest for TV rights. The CL group stage has had its day.

Are you saying tv viewers might pay extra for a bit of rollerball type ultra stabbing and police brutality. You may have a point actually.

I do think you would find that it would take a little longer than "all of a sudden" for all the world's top players to have their contracts ripped up and moved en masse to a country like Argentina.

Miro, I can assure you I am far from ecstatic about what has happened to football. I'm just trying to be realistic and to find explanations that go beyond McCarra's scaremongering. If huge amounts of international investment capital are pouring into the Pl, there must be a reason for it. These are not naiive philanthropists.

As a Chelsea fan I should be ecstatic that my club got one of the lucky tickets but I actually miss the days of standing, singing, watching crap football and going away just for the buzz and the potential aggro.

DELOITTES:

The review reveals that whilst the changes to the Premier League clubs' financial results over the past three seasons have been fairly minimal, the combination of increases in revenue and reasonable wage cost control should see operating profits almost double to £260m in the 2007/08 season.

The 16th Annual Review of Football Finance also confirmed that the Premier League clubs remain by far the biggest earners in world football, with the top 20 clubs generating around £1.4 billion in turnover.

"We believe the relatively small changes in Premier League clubs' financial results over the past three seasons represent the calm before the storm," said Dan Jones, Partner in the Sports Business Group at Deloitte. "The new broadcasting rights deals - providing an additional £300m or so of revenue to the Premier League clubs in 2007/08, and other revenue increases, will drive overall turnover up to almost £1.8 billion."

Player transfer spending this summer, Deloitte predicts, will again likely exceed £300m, while Premier League clubs' total wages cost will still rise to over £1 billion in 2007/08.

Other key findings in the report highlighted English football's financial strength compared to its European counterparts.

English football, says Deloitte, contributed around one quarter of the total revenue of the European football market of £8.7 billion in 2006. Premier League revenue of £1.4bn in 2005/06 beat second placed Serie A (£1bn). The other 'big five' leagues are in Germany (£0.8bn), Spain (£0.8bn) and France (£0.6bn).

Meanwhile, English football's second-tier Championship clubs saw turnover grow four per cent to £318m (average of £13m per club) in 2005/06.

Below the top two divisions, " the financial position remains very challenging," says Deloitte, " but it has improved and stabilised over the past three to four years.

Appraising the future outlook for football finance, Alan Switzer, director in the Sports Business Group at Deloitte, concluded: "English clubs will continue to lead the world financially. Whilst the players will be the main financial beneficiaries from the new TV deals, English clubs will continue to invest in their stadia and youth facilities, which is a vital element of a successful business strategy.

"Over 15 per cent of revenue generated by Premier League clubs since 1992/93 - over £1.7 billion - has been invested in facilities; the 'shop window' for the game. The contrast to facilities in countries like Italy is now stark."

The things that some people get turned on by!!! The mind boggles. "Get a life" comes nowhere near.

[Cheshireblue]

Can I just check please people - Has the club been sold yet Nicko?

[Hughesy]

Why you ask that Chesire Blue? You got some news?

[Eddie]

A-Har-Har. Despite the fact that you, philipl and tris have given him a hard time, if you look back through the record of things he has said he has given us some fantastic information. Obviously the sale of the club hasn't come off, but there was also obviously some genuine interest, regardless of whether or not you thought it had a realistic possibility of coming off. He never said the club was sold and it isn't his job to make sure everything that starts happening is completed, he just reported to us what he found out, for which the vast majority of us on here are very happy for. Now don't be such a baby just because you aren't the big boy on the block all of the time.

[nicko]

For those who need news...

There was a minor development recently when a potential financial ally of Dan Williams met Rovers officials - but the word I have back is that they do not think it is a worthwhile investment.

So, sadly there is no progress.

The bottom line is that the cost of buying - and spending money on players - is too much for all of those who have hovered in the past few months.

It does not take the massive figures mentioned by some, but it is still considered too much by people who want to see a return.

I am not going to fault Williams for trying, but my initial fear was that he had to do it last summer or the moment had gone. That may be the case.

[Alan75]

Nicko, I have a feeling that you can put the story to bed for a while yet.

[Mozzer]

to go one step further we really need a takeover...

we need to provide mark hughes with funds-because somewhere down the line he will get unhappy and leave for a club willing to back him..

[unsall]

For those who need news...

There was a minor development recently when a potential financial ally of Dan Williams met Rovers officials - but the word I have back is that they do not think it is a worthwhile investment.

So, sadly there is no progress.

The bottom line is that the cost of buying - and spending money on players - is too much for all of those who have hovered in the past few months.

It does not take the massive figures mentioned by some, but it is still considered too much by people who want to see a return.

I am not going to fault Williams for trying, but my initial fear was that he had to do it last summer or the moment had gone. That may be the case.

Just read the chairmans report from the annual report 2007,some interesting reading,re any takeover the trustees still want to dispose of there holding and because of the new tv deal this season, see no immediate requirement to invest further,having donated £3m a year since 1992,but the focus is still on finding a suitable investor to take the club forward beyond the Jack Walker dynasty,but along with their corporate advisors,the shareholders remain confident of a favourable conclusion in due course,so it looks like no more dosh from Jersey.One problem is,out of a turnover of nearly £44m 85% are wages, a little worrying.........

[JAL]

Just read the chairmans report from the annual report 2007,some interesting reading,re any takeover the trustees still want to dispose of there holding and because of the new tv deal this season, see no immediate requirement to invest further,having donated £3m a year since 1992,but the focus is still on finding a suitable investor to take the club forward beyond the Jack Walker dynasty,but along with their corporate advisors,the shareholders remain confident of a favourable conclusion in due course,so it looks like no more dosh from Jersey.One problem is,out of a turnover of nearly £44m 85% are wages, a little worrying.........

Has the strategy of providing reduced season tickets backfired ?

It was a courageous decision but the local public didnt buy into it wholesale...they the club should feel totally exhausted and totally deflated by the final response thankfully the new supporters from outside the area are the future hopefully they will stick with the club when the chips are down.

[Ben-2000]

....and a season ticket waiting list of some 45,000!

You'd have thought they'd have built a bigger stadium then or at least have plans to increase it

[Paul]

Has the strategy of providing reduced season tickets backfired ?

The report says STs are up from 13000 to 15000

[JAL]

The report says STs are up from 13000 to 15000

So how much have Rovers lost in revenue for that extra 2000 and what was the total amount the year before the 13000 figure.

1500 is a pathetic figure and dont give me any size of town nonesense or shifting demographics or any other pitiful excuse when other clubs have waiting lists going into their thousands

[bellamy11]

So how much have Rovers lost in revenue for that extra 2000 and what was the total amount the year before the 13000 figure.

1500 is a pathetic figure and dont give me any size of town nonesense or shifting demographics or any other pitiful excuse when other clubs have waiting lists going into their thousands

The price cut was never an excercise in increasing revenue - it was to arrest the worrying decline of season ticket sales and hopefully increase them, which it did. It was not done as a short-term money-making excercise.

[Presty On Tour]

So how much have Rovers lost in revenue for that extra 2000 and what was the total amount the year before the 13000 figure.

1500 is a pathetic figure and dont give me any size of town nonesense or shifting demographics or any other pitiful excuse when other clubs have waiting lists going into their thousands

is it 15,000 not 1500?

[only2garners]

So how much have Rovers lost in revenue for that extra 2000 and what was the total amount the year before the 13000 figure.

1500 is a pathetic figure and dont give me any size of town nonesense or shifting demographics or any other pitiful excuse when other clubs have waiting lists going into their thousands

Other clubs? Is there anywhere else with a significant ST waiting list like Arsenal? And why isn't the size of the potential market significant?

Why is a 15% increase pathetic and not something to be celebrated? A season or two ago we were getting significantly smaller crowds than Bolton down the road. On Wednesday we were both at home against teams at the bottom. Even if you take the Sunderland fans out of the attendance Rovers still had 19,000 home fans, 2,000 more than were at Bolton including away fans.

[Paul]

I don't have that information but guess it will only be truely available when the 2008 accounts are published in 12 months time. The mix of adult, junior, and concessionary tickets is complex and none of us could guess at the loss in income. All we know is the club allocated £1m of the new TV money to subsidise the discounted prices.

I think it's clear there are probably around 25,000 people who are interested to watch Rovers on a regular (I don't mean every game) basis. Who actually attends fluctuates with every game, 10% of ST holders are missing, on average, at every match. Our fan base is small, always has been and probably always will be. I can't justify it one way or another, it's just how it appears to be.

[stuwilky]

So how much have Rovers lost in revenue for that extra 2000 and what was the total amount the year before the 13000 figure.

1500 is a pathetic figure and dont give me any size of town nonesense or shifting demographics or any other pitiful excuse when other clubs have waiting lists going into their thousands

It isnt nonsense, it is clearly why we havnt got a waiting list like, say, Arsenal - who as I understand are the only club with a waiting list of any significance arent they?

If you give us a population of 800,000 and few competitor teams Im sure we can get more through the doors.....

...Where shall we move to?

[Eddie]

Paris

[Fife Rover]

It isnt nonsense, it is clearly why we havnt got a waiting list like, say, Arsenal - who as I understand are the only club with a waiting list of any significance arent they?

If you give us a population of 800,000 and few competitor teams Im sure we can get more through the doors.....

...Where shall we move to?

Edinburgh or Dunfermline will do nicely. (Dunfermline is officially the fastest growing area in the UK; population more than doubled in the last 12 years. House prices 2nd only to London though)

Only joking ( but wishfully). Anyway it wouldn't work because most of the incomers are at best TV soccer fans and supporters of one of the "Big 4" or the old firm. Has not done the Pars any good at the gate.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Paris

Rugby city- Football plays second fidle as it does in most of France barring Marseille & Lyon

[Eddie]

Well, when PSG are doing well you still don't have a problem filling a rather large stadium. It's becoming more and more of a rugby city as PSG continue to struggle each year, a good team would turn that around though.

[den]

Just read the chairmans report from the annual report 2007,some interesting reading,re any takeover the trustees still want to dispose of there holding and because of the new tv deal this season, see no immediate requirement to invest further,having donated £3m a year since 1992,but the focus is still on finding a suitable investor to take the club forward beyond the Jack Walker dynasty,but along with their corporate advisors,the shareholders remain confident of a favourable conclusion in due course,so it looks like no more dosh from Jersey.One problem is,out of a turnover of nearly £44m 85% are wages, a little worrying.........

I'm surprised that no-one has picked up on the most important point here. It sounds as though the trustees have now washed their hands of the club. They wont be putting any more money into rovers. It points to the new TV money as the reason, but evidentally, we have no money to spend and the trustees don't see that as a concern for them.

Are the Walker days truly over?

[joey_big_nose]

Just read the chairmans report from the annual report 2007,some interesting reading,re any takeover the trustees still want to dispose of there holding and because of the new tv deal this season, see no immediate requirement to invest further,having donated £3m a year since 1992,but the focus is still on finding a suitable investor to take the club forward beyond the Jack Walker dynasty,but along with their corporate advisors,the shareholders remain confident of a favourable conclusion in due course,so it looks like no more dosh from Jersey.One problem is,out of a turnover of nearly £44m 85% are wages, a little worrying.........

Well I think that might explain why we have little money for available for transfers. Increased Wages, a loss of 4m (3m from Jersey, 1m from season ticket transfers) plus net spending in the summer of 3.5m for Santa Curz.

Still think we should have about 3 or 4m hopefully before outgoings. A little depressing when you consider the number of clubs considerably financially better off than us has now reached THIRTEEN! (Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Fulham, Portsmouth, Newcastle, Sunderland, Everton, Spurs, Aston Villa, West Ham). How can we compete long term?

Those scrabbling round for the bargains with us include: Derby, Middlesborough, Birmingham, Wigan, Bolton and Reading. It is a great testement to Hughes judgement that we are the only team in that bracket in the top half. And we are a full 11 points higher than Reading- the next placed thrifty purchasers. The message could be: find a daft invester who has little problem throwing his money away (as surely all the investers in the likes of Pompey and Villa are) or get relegated!