[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[RevidgeBlue]

Very peculiar post.

They are not taking a penny out of the club. In fact if you compare Rovers with other Prem clubs where Directors and Directors' advisers fees and perks can cost figures into the millions, that aspect is another hidden benefit the Rovers enjoy compared with the likes of Newcastle for example.

Well thats not strictly true, I'm sure the Trustees are remunerated extremely handsomely in a professional capacity for administering all Jack's businesses including Rovers.

Also, you make it sound as though John Williams, Tom Finn and Martin Goodman are working for nothing when in truth they are extremely generously remunerated.

[philipl]

RB, my post is strictly 100% true.

The Trustees are not remunerated by the club.

I was answering a point made about the Walker family and the Trustees. However, as you have chosen to bring other people into this discussion, the salaries paid to Rovers' executive directors whilst decent by Blackburn standards are not high on any other basis you care to mention: size of company by turnover, cost to private life of public exposure such as folks writing about your salary on the internet, other Premiership clubs and so on.

[RevidgeBlue]

RB, my post is strictly 100% true.

The Trustees are not remunerated by the club.

You're splitting hairs, even if not paid directly by the club the Trustees will be paid out of the Trust Fund which would have been money otherwise available to Blackburn Rovers and the other businesses.

Nothing wrong with that but you were trying to insinuate that the Trustees were working for nothing and we were the only club in existence that didn't have to pay fees etc.

[philipl]

Sorry Rev but you are way off there.

On any basis, Rovers are a small part of the Walker Trust activities.

[92er]

There was an interesting article in the Daily Telegraph yesterday written by Henry Winter.

Recently Ferguson has complained about the lack of passion at Old Trafford. HW argued that one of the side effects of the American takeover was the rise in price of tickets that was increasingly excluding the " Salford working-class support" that in the past had created the passion and was being replaced by a group of people who were waiting to be entertained.

At the moment the Rovers are owned by the Trustees of Uncle Jack, who want to sell but who have regularly put in money without taking money in the form of dividends etc.

So, if some outside investor is going to buy the club it is on the basis of their making money out of it. If they fund £5 mill of player purchases, they are going to want to take out at least £10mill to make it worthwhile and that is on the basis that we don't lose money in any financial year.

How will the investor make money?

I have no idea-but presumably it would involve an increase in admission charges/selling players or some other way of increasing charges. How would the Blackburn public react to this? I'm sure there would be a lot of complaining and I can't see it working. We are not a very attractive investment to some one wanting to make money out of us who has no interest in the club.

Out of the 3 most sucessful eras in the club's history, 2 were funded by supporters-just before the 1st World War and then more recently Uncle Jack.

[jim mk2]

, cost to private life of public exposure such as folks writing about your salary on the internet, .

Eh ? What has that got to do with the price of carrots ?

[Parsonblue]

'Out of the 3 most sucessful eras in the club's history, 2 were funded by supporters-just before the 1st World War and then more recently Uncle Jack.'

The success that was achieved before the First World War was funded by Lawrence Cotton, the club chairman. Like Jack Walker, he was a wealthy local businessman who used his money to rebuild the ground and smash transfer records to bring in players who won two championships.

Sadly, success and money seem to go hand in hand. However, in the present climate I can't see how anyone can come in and make money out of a club like the Rovers. Both Jack Walker and Lawrence Cotton were local men who had the club at heart - hence they were prepared their own personal wealth to make it successful.

[AndyC]

You're splitting hairs, even if not paid directly by the club the Trustees will be paid out of the Trust Fund which would have been money otherwise available to Blackburn Rovers and the other businesses.

Nothing wrong with that but you were trying to insinuate that the Trustees were working for nothing and we were the only club in existence that didn't have to pay fees etc.

I don't think he was. I think he was merely pointing out that the trustees don't take huge personal divdends out of the club. Which is something that others on here are claiming.

Sure - they will get paid, along with the officials at the club, but I'd also agree with Phil on the size of the salaries of john williams etc. For running a PL club - they are not outrageous.

United look set to annouce around £245million turnover, with wages less than 45% of turnover.....

....shows the difference with us. They have debt to repay, but there overall business is looking strong.

[BrianPotter]

The Trustees do not receive any money at all from BRFC. The only transactions between the Trust and the Club are in the form of money coming in, whether it be by re-issue of shares, interest free loans or converting loans to share capital. The Trustees receive nothing from the club at all.

For people to suggest the Trust are getting all they can out of the club before selling up is ludricous, and as the accounts for the past few years show is simply not the case. The Trustees are indicating that they feel due to the increase in TV money they do not think it neccassary to inject additional money into the club - a simple and sensible business decision (if you are a business man and not a supporter of course!).

The people running the Trust will be renumerated for their services by the Trust fund, and has Phil and a few others have stated on numerous occasions BRFC is a very very small part of the Trusts portfolio. Suggesting that if they weren't renumerated by the Trust would mean additional money available for Rovers is riddiculous - the amount of money we are talking would probably amount to the signing of a pretty average player for Rovers, but in relation to the value of the Trust it is a small drop in a very large Ocean. I get the impression that a few people on here do not understand the sheer size of the Walker Trust, with net assets estimated at around £1bn (remember that is net), this figure should put the size of Rovers in relation to the Trust in perspective.

[BrianPotter]

The Trustees do not receive any money at all from BRFC. The only transactions between the Trust and the Club are in the form of money coming in, whether it be by re-issue of shares, interest free loans or converting loans to share capital. The Trustees receive nothing from the club at all.

For people to suggest the Trust are getting all they can out of the club before selling up is ludricous, and as the accounts for the past few years show is simply not the case. The Trustees are indicating that they feel due to the increase in TV money they do not think it neccassary to inject additional money into the club - a simple and sensible business decision (if you are a business man and not a supporter of course!).

The people running the Trust will be renumerated for their services by the Trust fund, and has Phil and a few others have stated on numerous occasions BRFC is a very very small part of the Trusts portfolio. Suggesting that if they weren't renumerated by the Trust would mean additional money available for Rovers is riddiculous - the amount of money we are talking would probably amount to the signing of a pretty average player for Rovers, but in relation to the value of the Trust it is a small drop in a very large Ocean. I get the impression that a few people on here do not understand the sheer size of the Walker Trust, with net assets estimated at around £1bn (remember that is net), this figure should put the size of Rovers in relation to the Trust in perspective.

[only2garners]

As an aside on this I wonder how many fans realise, or think about, the EMPLOYER costs which must be added to the wage bill. If we have a wage bill of £30m, at least 10% of that will be going on employer costs, a wage bill of £40m would include £4m of employer costs - in other words there is more to employing someone than their salary.

/quote]

I have no idea how pensions work for footballers but any other good employer would also be contributing a % of pay into the pension fund for each employee as well - this could easily be more than 10% on top of national insurance costs.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

edit- site went funny on me- something to do with drivers

[Bazzanotsogreat]

As an aside on this I wonder how many fans realise, or think about, the EMPLOYER costs which must be added to the wage bill. If we have a wage bill of £30m, at least 10% of that will be going on employer costs, a wage bill of £40m would include £4m of employer costs - in other words there is more to employing someone than their salary.

The payroll is everyone at the club not just players

And our wage bill isnt 40 million

At a guess clubs wont do stakrholder pension, can you imagine trying to match say a 10% contribution of every player annualy

[Bazzanotsogreat]

As an aside on this I wonder how many fans realise, or think about, the EMPLOYER costs which must be added to the wage bill. If we have a wage bill of £30m, at least 10% of that will be going on employer costs, a wage bill of £40m would include £4m of employer costs - in other words there is more to employing someone than their salary.

/quote]

The payroll is everyone at the club not just players

And our wage bill isnt 40 million

At a guess clubs wont do stakeholder pension, can you imagine trying to match say a 10% contribution of every player annualy

[thenodrog]

The trustees/Walkers are recouping every bit of coin they can until the club is sold.....that is the only viable explanation I can give as to why Hughes is painfully being made to beg steal and borrow in the tranfer market.

I really do fear matters cant continue this way.

Reduced season ticket prices which attract a few hundred extra punters will not buy expensive players. The fact is that since the early days of Souness nobody has written daft cheques opn a whim. imo The pattern is set by David Brown, and that is that our manager can buy who he wants just as long as he generates transfer fees from within his squad. We are now a selling club rather than a buying one and if we have to sell Bentley for example in order to bring in the likes of Diarra and Sas or similar then thats the way that it is. 'Sensible' is a better adjective for our management to be associated with rather than reckless or exciting.

[thenodrog]

McCarthy would not have come cheap, Brad got a rise, Ryan Nelsen got TWO rises. I don't know if it includes Bellamy...because he was the best-paid of the lot.

I'm not going to go into details, but Sav's figures are below that.

I would have to say the overall £36m figure being quoted sounds a bit high. Maybe it includes the managerial and backroom staff. Perhaps it also includes bonuses, which would hike it up a little, but not a lot.

Rovers are good payers, but not THAT good payers.

Whatever the size of the bill it certainly does not equate with the crowds you get...how many Rovers fans were at the game yesterday, for instance.

The fact is that TV money pays for most of the wages. So you have to keep well up the table and get the prize money to pick up the tab.

Just wondering about pay structures. Is their a financial benefit for the players from playing Cup matches or is that all wrapped up as salary? Might explain the lack of motivation for almost half the Prem teams this last weekend.

[Fife Rover]

Has anyone seen a better passer of the ball in a Rovers shirt?

I almost wish you had not asked that question. What am I supposed to do; just ignore it, or tell the truth?

The answer to your question is: Yes I have ; Eddie Quigley was a superb passer of a ball and also scored lots of goals as well. He had a wicked left foot and could shoot or volley from long range just like tugs.

[Paul]

The payroll is everyone at the club not just players

Obviously

And our wage bill isnt 40 million

Nobody has said the wage bill is £40m. It was an example.

At a guess clubs wont do stakeholder pension, can you imagine trying to match say a 10% contribution of every player annualy

The point I was making had nothing to do with pensions, though I imagine only2garners is correct in saying the club may have some responsibility for employee pensions.

The employer costs I referred to, at 10%, are employer's National Insurance contribution, currently 10.55%. This is a direct cost to the employer on top of the employee's salary. The point I was making is a wage bill of £30m will include this 10.55%. The net cost of salaries is roughly 10% lower. There are other, considerable, employer costs, pensions, cars, general expenses, travel, entertainment which are directly related to the running of any business but are not direct employment costs and for accounting purposes are considered as overheads.

[John]

EDITTED .

[philipl]

Apparently Dan Williams is now co-owner (couldn't afford to buy them outright?) of the Rochester Rhinos and has promised to make them Blackburn Rovers' American partner club according to some guy from Rochester on the official board.

OK folks, everything we know about the Rochester Rhinos here

They are the American equivalent of Blue Square North

[thenodrog]

Apparently Dan Williams is now co-owner (couldn't afford to buy them outright?) of the Rochester Rhinos and has promised to make them Blackburn Rovers' American partner club according to some guy from Rochester on the official board.

OK folks, everything we know about the Rochester Rhinos here

They are the American equivalent of Blue Square North

Rochester Rhino's? .......... I dont even know who Blue Square North are!

[den]

John,

if you want to quote a source, then please post only a part of that source, then add a link to the article. That's always been the way we work on here.

[Fife Rover]

Apparently Dan Williams is now co-owner (couldn't afford to buy them outright?) of the Rochester Rhinos and has promised to make them Blackburn Rovers' American partner club according to some guy from Rochester on the official board.

OK folks, everything we know about the Rochester Rhinos here

They are the American equivalent of Blue Square North

That is the very first time that that particular arrangement of those three words has ever passed in front of my eyes.

I guess that that is the very point you were trying to make Philipl.

However, it might just be easier for most people if you descended to their level from your lofty philososophical perch and actually said what you are trying to say in nice easy plain English. Try the effect of introducing your subject with at least a backward reference to a previous post where it is relevant, and use both subjects and objects in your sentence constructions. You have been to Grammar School so you do know what I mean, but for some reason almost always choose to ignore this basic rule of good communication. Perhaps you think it makes you look cleverer than the rest of us; it doesn't!

[thenodrog]

Couple of Valium for Fife too please USA.

[jim mk2]

That is the very first time that that particular arrangement of those three words has ever passed in front of my eyes.

I guess that that is the very point you were trying to make Philipl.

However, it might just be easier for most people if you descended to their level from your lofty philososophical perch and actually said what you are trying to say in nice easy plain English. Try the effect of introducing your subject with at least a backward reference to a previous post where it is relevant, and use both subjects and objects in your sentence constructions. You have been to Grammar School so you do know what I mean, but for some reason almost always choose to ignore this basic rule of good communication. Perhaps you think it makes you look cleverer than the rest of us; it doesn't!

Here endeth the lesson.

If you knew your football you would have known what philip meant.