[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[bob fleming]

After reading that article last night I'm still none the wiser and it's not put my mind at rest. Sill enough of that, there are people in place doing the right checks etc I'd hope. One thing that did stike me though was why give an interview at all? Is this purely inreponse to "Nicko"'s article at the weekend?

Anyway, from the LT: "And I suppose the better the club does on the pitch, the better that investment becomes?

Yes. But these aren't people who are going to spend £10 million on a player almost Abramovich-like. These are people who will say the club is worth a certain amount of money now, it's got a certain amount of profit every year, and if we were to buy a player that was more likely to help the team finish seventh rather than 10th then that would be something to look at."

I don't think we can read too much into this. One of John Williams strengths is that he keeps his cards close to his chest and makes noises along the lines that we're skint. If Dan the Man came out and said "We're absolutely loaded, can't give it away, we're going to spend a fortune like that Russian fella" it's not going to help is it?

If these guys want to come in and make profits then good luck to them. I'd be interested in knowing exactly how they're going to achieve that - I'd imagine it will mean we'll have to be successful, and probably more successful than we are at the moment. That means more money for players. And more debt?

It's certainly a darn sight more interesting this close season than last. We may even buy a player soon eh?

[brfc fan]

Sadly by then, the sport may just be another pc game.

Scary prediction but certainly a possibility.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Not everyone

Good luck to DW or whoever, if they want to buy the club. However those supporters who think it will allow Rovers to make a serious impact on the premiership are deluded.

When the bubble breaks, it will be the next generation of supporters who will have to pick up the pieces. Sadly by then, the sport may just be another pc game.

Here also.

However I don't know about deluded A75 , maybe a little excited and hopeful but the all scenario does raise serious questions.

As per many - what just is the attraction of BRFC? Are we in a better position than most clubs?

Are these people seeing something or know something that us common fans don't see/know about?

DW - looks genuine enough - but why the interest - is it the money aspect ?(alarming if it is as us fans can see big pitfalls)

Personally, I just feel it will be very very bad for the game, not necessarily the Rovers aspect here but if all the 'outside' investment happens to great significance.

Yes there may be a glorified product to tap into for a couple of years with an increasing global market - but what about the core aspect - the fans in this country, what will be the impact on them/ what happens when they decide enough is enough? All you can see happening is as has already been mentioned, players costing even more ( when not even worth it!!) fans being charged more (see MU), players getting more wages and more money going out of the game. There are already signs with the decreasing numbers of fans outside of the larger clubs and comments on any club message board you care to visit - what happens when the bubble bursts?

[ihateburnley]

So you believe that MH has not yet had any money at all for signing new players since he became the manager, therefore every player he has signed has come for free with no signing on fee and somebody else is paying all their wages. Hmmmmm!.......

Fife, in comparison to other clubs, Hughes has had hardly anything to spend in the transfer market - but of course thats assuming he isn't sat on a transfer kitty that he has decided not to use. Of Mark Hughes' first team squad signings you're looking at:

Jason Brown - free

Stephen Warnock - £1.5m

Bruno Berner - nominal

Zurab - 500k

Aaron Mokoena - £350k

Chris Samba - £390k

Ryan Nelsen - free

Andre Ooijer - £2m

David Dunn - £2.2m

Robbie Savage - £3m

David Bentley - £150k

Francis Jeffers - free

Benni McCarthy - £2.5m

Jason Roberts - £3m

I've not included Bellamy because we made a profit through the sale, and I don't think I've missed anyone off. So we've spent just over £15m there in Hughes' reign - just short of three years. Many people realise that with a fully fit squad we could have got into that top seven - how many other clubs can boast that after limiting their spending to £5m a year for the past three years?

There's a lot to be said for top-class management and it's not all about money.

[Flopsy]

How many football fans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Change? Change?!?!? CHANGE?!?!?!

Unfortunately the game has moved on, and for Rovers to stay as a viable Premiership club, challenging for honours, we need to be on roughly the same financial footings as other clubs towards the top of the table, ala Spurs and Villa. Without the investment we're unfortunately stuffed and looking at a decline back down to the Championship or League 1

[lockers]

Fife, in comparison to other clubs, Hughes has had hardly anything to spend in the transfer market - but of course thats assuming he isn't sat on a transfer kitty that he has decided not to use. Of Mark Hughes' first team squad signings you're looking at:

Jason Brown - free

Stephen Warnock - £1.5m

Bruno Berner - nominal

Zurab - 500k

Aaron Mokoena - £350k

Chris Samba - £390k

Ryan Nelsen - free

Andre Ooijer - £2m

David Dunn - £2.2m

Robbie Savage - £3m

David Bentley - £150k

Francis Jeffers - free

Benni McCarthy - £2.5m

Jason Roberts - £3m

I've not included Bellamy because we made a profit through the sale, and I don't think I've missed anyone off. So we've spent just over £15m there in Hughes' reign - just short of three years. Many people realise that with a fully fit squad we could have got into that top seven - how many other clubs can boast that after limiting their spending to £5m a year for the past three years?

There's a lot to be said for top-class management and it's not all about money.

i thought bentley was 1.5 million! you missed a 0 on that one

[Ricky]

Soccerbase has the following fugures for the last few years (not 100% accurate but pretty close)

In

06/07 11,200,000

05/06 5,500,000

04/05 4,800,000

Out

06/07 4,600,000

05/06 6,000,000

04/05 6,550,000

So last season was the first time we actually spent more than we receieved in transfer fees.

[thenodrog]

Many of us were lucky, to have been part of the Jack Walker era, when there was no profit to be made from owning a football club. The only reason that an investor pumped money into a club was because he was a local business man and a supporter.

Partly correct Alan but JW made plenty from those early days. We bought a team for 30 million and sold it for double! Also the reported £65 million buy-out fund for the Walker Trust is hardly loose change is it?

The era that you would be more accurate referring to was just prior to and through the Bill Bancroft / Derek Keighley / Bill Fox era when 30% of the ground was shut and we couldn't pay the milkman.

[stuwilky]

Partly correct Alan but JW made plenty from those early days. We bought a team for 30 million and sold it for double!

We also did the ground, the training complex, paid huge signing on fees and wages.

JW didnt make a penny out of us, in any given year.

[thenodrog]

We also did the ground, the training complex, paid huge signing on fees and wages.

JW didnt make a penny out of us, in any given year.

Sorry I meant that he made money for the club. The 65m is his pay-off as it were. JW always said in those days that the club had to be run as a bonafide business. Whether the new deal includes the ground and Brockhall none of us can know yet.

[CAPT KAYOS]

How many football fans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Change? Change?!?!? CHANGE?!?!?!

Unfortunately the game has moved on, and for Rovers to stay as a viable Premiership club, challenging for honours, we need to be on roughly the same financial footings as other clubs towards the top of the table, ala Spurs and Villa. Without the investment we're unfortunately stuffed and looking at a decline back down to the Championship or League 1

The game may have moved on Flopsy but not necessarily for the better.

It may be in the long run that (god forbid) we do not form part of the setup of the ' Premier League' or whatever it may be called (Only Rich clubs beginning with A/C/L/M League? ) unless there is a reform and we see the Thenodrog theoretical model of Lancashire UTD coming into play - and it will not just affect us.

As I have mentioned before - the change may not be what the core/dedicated fans want - the question has to be asked though will there be a new generation to replace the loyal followers of any club or we will we end up with a glorified product with the name of Lancashire Globetrotters who play as a 'spectator show' rather than a competitive game of football?

[broadsword]

Unfortunately I know diddly-squat about corporate finance, so I'm putting my faith in John Williams to do the right thing by the fans.

I'm sure if Daniel Williams is genuine then he'll win the fans over in short order.

[OscarRaven]

At the moment we need a subsidy to survive (5000 extra season tickets?), Its clear to me that Daniel Williams is backed by banks - so when did it become normal for banks to give money away?

This is bad news, bad business and quite frankly a backward step for Rovers who were pioneering the way in making football affordable again!

But the Walkers no longer want us so what can you do?

[philipl]

I can see no evidence that "the Walkers no longer want us".

The trustees are applying Jack's will just as a new generation of trustees will be administering it thirty years from now in all probability.

Jack had the foresight to see that times would come when other people might do better for Blackburn Rovers than his Trust is empowered to and has made provision accordingly. The Trustees probably would be failing in their duty not to investigate a change of ownership now when the change in EPL fortunes predicate many seemingly willing investors. Equally they would probably be failing their duty of trust if they allowed the sort of thing the Glazers are getting up to down the road at OT.

That's my educated guess anyway.

[Hughesy]

I think the comment he made about spending £10 million on a player only, that he would only back a move if it improved our position is a point he is making about the difference in 6th - 10th and the difference in finishing 4th and Champs league qualification!

Im sure these business men know very well that if they can take a club and get them to become a permanent 4th place team then they have massive amounts of extra cash from the champs league, once you have that then obviously you have the mega extra money from entry in that comp, tv money, extra gates - and then most importantly you have your brand out there for all to see across Europe on a big stage.

Rovers are a very good opportunity for a business man, becase they are well run, the stadium is already built (except the riverside), a cracking academy and a very good set up with Hughes, Williams, coaches etc. We also have a squad which is among the strongest outside of the top 4 and therefore with some investment we could possibly be the team to crack that top 4.

The face that we have Williams & the trust looking for the right deal is a bonus. The fact that a Rovers fan is after our club is a bonus. The fact that he has major investment backing is another bonus.

So i see it as a win win situation for everyone involved.

[Billy Castell]

I think that if Hughes and (John) Williams remain, a future debt issue may be manageable, as if things get a bit wobbly, and Hughes can only spend a couple of £m in the transfer windows, he'd be able to use it wisely. They are both used to running a tight ship, and I doubt they are the sort who'd fancy a 'speculate to accumilate' gamble like Leeds under Risdale.

Whilst we don't have 2 billion fans, we are probably in a more secure standing than perhaps Wham, Portsmouth or Villa if/when the TV bubble bursts, and will probably be if the current men remain in charge of the day-to-day running of the club.

[RevidgeBlue]

I wouldn't be surprised if John Williams'/Rothschilds' phones are not ringing off the hook with counter offers right now.

That's exactly what I was hoping.

With a bit of luck DW being "outed" in the Sunday People (not of his own volition if you believe "nicko") will encourage what I would term more substantial investors to show their hand.

[broadsword]

Who says Daniel Williams is not a substantial investor?

He's not showing his hand at the moment, so how do we know what cards he has?

[den]

Who says Daniel Williams is not a substantial investor?

He's not showing his hand at the moment, so how do we know what cards he has?

At the moment Bryan, nobody has a clue.

[Billy Castell]

Some of you lot are sounding like Man City fans. I doubt we'd sell if he barely had enough money to buy the club, let alone fund any transfers. That wouldn't help the trust fulfill its commitments.

[AggyBlue]

One of the things he does have in his favour is his age. If he does head a takeover and he is a life long fan, he could be around for a very long time, ensuring the clubs stability from the very top for years to come.

I'm sure any major signing will have to be put on hold until the deal goes through or falls through.

Overall I'm quite exited by the prospect of DW taking the helm.

[benhben]

I hope D Williams doesnt get rid of John Williams. Also Bring tony parkes back, even if its as a cleaner!

[Hughesy]

His company has contracts worth over $1 billion alone. Im sure he has a few quid in his pocket anyway!

Who says Daniel Williams is not a substantial investor?

He's not showing his hand at the moment, so how do we know what cards he has?

[Paul]

His company has contracts worth over $1 billion alone. Im sure he has a few quid in his pocket anyway!

Unfortunately that doesn't follow. Rolls Royce went bust because it didn't have any cash.

[blue phil]

I can see no evidence that "the Walkers no longer want us".

The trustees are applying Jack's will just as a new generation of trustees will be administering it thirty years from now in all probability.

That's a point I was trying to make earlier . If the present trustees want out then surely they can just go without selling the club . Unless , of course , the family just want rid full stop and cut any future drain on the family fortune .

Whatever the result of this bid I can't see us doing anything more spectacular than we could with the trust . To break into the champs league spots is unrealistic - the quality of players needed would simply not be interested in playing in front of 20,000 evry other week ; McCarthy doesn't and Bellamy didn't . Hughes won't be here forever either....

As I've said before (once or twice !) our greatest problem in the future is the attendance issue .