[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[Jimbo]

I can only see one reason a hedge fund would want to invest in Rovers, where they will have no chance of making the 20% returns in the investment that they'd expect, and that would be to move the "Rovers Franchise" to somewhere more profitable - Wimbledon screwed up by leaving it too late, and they were already in the mire - move Rovers to Dublin while they're still in the premiership and you'd be quids in. I hope to hell that I'm wrong

[thenodrog]

move Rovers to Dublin while they're still in the premiership and you'd be quids in. I hope to hell that I'm wrong

I do! I may be labouring a point here but it'd be best if they moved Burnley nad Preston to Dublin.

[thenodrog]

The vengeful side to my persona is taking a view that the Rover's keenest and longest supporters .... the bar-fly sky viewers who turn up at every semi-final / final .... are getting all they deserve for contributing so much to this current situation.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

I can't comment on whether the Trustees are desperate to sell or what the intentions of any potential buyer are, but there is no doubt that we have come to a watershed in Rovers' history.

In all such situations there is a natural aversion to change because of the risk it inevitably introduces. In this case the risk is that our beloved Rovers will be in the hands of someone who does not have the fans interests at heart.

However, without taking that risk we can only fall further behind the big city clubs and will probably find our natural level in a lower league. Therefore we as fans have to balance the possibility of continued Premiership existence, courtesy of new owners and new capital, with the probability of watching our club in the Championship or even League 1 (Huddersfield are a a good comparison).

Having spent much of my time watching Rovers outside the Premiership I know which route I would prefer the club to take.

No success in business is achieved without taking a risk. We just have to hope that the Trustees, and those who will be buying, fully understand the risks involved in taking on our Club, and have plans in place to manage them.

Just a final point. We may be a small town club but as one that is competing in the Premiership and Europe the Blackburn Rovers brand is huge in terms of the global football market. I think the potential buyers recognise that.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

A fundemental of investing is assessing risk versus potential return. We have shown in recent seasons that given a little extra investment, it would not take that much to move us up a level (sneak into the CL). If that could be achieved (together with a decent run in the competition), we would be a very good investment.

Given the state of the books at Ewood, and the fact that we are one of a small handful of clubs who can realistically sneak into the CL, we represent a potentially good investment.

[dave birch]

But, if the trust that Jack set up sets certain conditions on which the club can be sold , then........

It all come down to how "our" Uncle Jack set out his trust deed.

If those conditions can't be met then.......

The trustees can wish all they want.

[dave birch]

A fundemental of investing is assessing risk versus potential return. We have shown in recent seasons that given a little extra investment, it would not take that much to move us up a level (sneak into the CL). If that could be achieved (together with a decent run in the competition), we would be a very good investment.

Given the state of the books at Ewood, and the fact that we are one of a small handful of clubs who can realistically sneak into the CL, we represent a potentially good investment.

Sorry, TDI, there's very little profit to be gained out of a football team. There's better money earned elswhere. There has got to more to it than that.

[thenodrog]

Sorry, TDI, there's very little profit to be gained out of a football team. There's better money earned elswhere. There has got to more to it than that.

Indeed if we ever managed to qualify for the CL there'd be a queue of players agents with their caps held out a mile long outside JW's office (if he's still got one that is).

[philipl]

I haven't spread sheeted this but IF Rovers keep their cost base as it is (roughly), then the about £5m pa overall loss is going to be around £5m pa profit in the brave new media era.

Then you factor in that ManU have to play SOMEBODY in this mega media extravagansa called the Premiership and some marketing guru will eventually make money out of backing the injuns against the cowboys. Particularly if you think the cowboys will come down all General Custer a bit more often- especially if your view from inside American sport is that messrs Hicks, Gillet and Glazer ARE latter day General Custers and that Anfield and OT are as unfamiliar to them as Little Big Horn was to the first Custer.

This is a starter of a wish list for wannabe buyers rather than a business case but then if you've made enough dosh to contemplate buying an EPL team even if it is leveraged with a hedge fund's expectation of a 20%+ rate of return, perhaps your belief in your own business ability gets fuelled by a couple of matches seen from inside the Directors' box....

[1864roverite]

The link between Rovers and and an American asset management (or venture capital) company leaves me completely nonplussed to be quite honest, I just don't see any logical connection.

Just wait and see until the club makes an announcement, pure speculation without any knowledge outside of media reports, ill reports as well, will only serve to make you ill.

In a nutshell, Rovers could be taken over by a hedge fund fronted by Daniel Williams, who does not have the necessary financial clout to fund the club on his own.

Thank you, Walker Trustees. You'll have to face Jack and explain that one day.

Mr Williams has already muted that he is being backed and is not putting all the cash in to the purchase of BRFC

BTW Jimbo, you too will have to face the wrath of the great man at some time, and from some of your ill received remarks he may be waiting with a baseball bat for you !

''They are also a hedge fund, which means they will be looking for a profit.''

We are really non the wiser but I will hazard a guess and say its goodbye to the cheap tickets after next season folks!

There is NOTHING to evidence that quote in any shape or form. Blackburn,Darwen and Preston are not exactly brimming with affluence. They may just be basing the profit assumption on the way the club is soundly managed.

It is quite clear now that the Walkers are desperate to sell.

I am extremely concerned about this, but we are powerless - would just like some reassurance.

I have yet to see any quote from The Walker family themselves and I am sure that the Walker family would do NOTHING to pour embarassment onto Sir Jacks name. After all what he gave us he also gave to his family.

After several years of strict financial policy at the club, restricting the level of wages and transfer budgets available to the management, I would hate to see us suddenly inherit a huge amount of debt. That is my main worry.

However, I'm not going to get too worried about the future of the club if this deal is successful, because the two men fronting the deal appear genuine in their allegiance to Rovers and would want the very best for the club, while their backers are huge in the business world, worth billions and, apparently, are very much looking for success on the field.

To be honest, it might be dangerous thinking, but any takeover that promises more money in the transfer market excites me.

Again I cant see BRFC being laden with any sort of big debts. The club is soundly managed. Why anyone would seek to place a huge burden on debt on a Town club is beyond me. Not even a Ridsdale or the like would consider bringing such a financial burden into BRFC not even for the Champions League Place that might be on offer in 4th place.

Supporters be patient. the best option for everyone is to wait and see what the CLUB itself announces. At that point and that point only can we then begin to make comments. Until then its all a mismatch of comments, its gonna ruin your summer holidays and its gonna spoil the run in to the pre season games.

[Roversider]

Why is everyone so surprised that American investors see the Premiership as a way to make money? The reality is that at the moment it is very profitable given the new TV deals and there is further room to develop the brand overseas. Hence a lot of hard-nosed Americans choosing to buy clubs.

The amount reputed to be paid for Rovers would still lead me to think they would be looking for an overall return in excess of £10m p.a. and that won't be based on fans through the gates. The income will need to be from branding, TV and other sponsorship deals. There is a synergy between brands and sport so I suspect that any new investors will be basing there basic business plan on that sort of development and marketing into new areas (eg Far East, USA) which is relatively long-term (at least 3-5 years to develop). On the other hand they would have an additional alternative 'big-win' if TV income continues to grow and the value of the club rises in line leading to another sale and resulting capital gain.

This may actually seem a relatively low risk investment if they believe they can maintain the Rovers in the Premiership as a fair chunk of the income is in the bag via the TV deals. Lower risk means lower returns needed.

Also this would be a relatively small part of their portfolio and would reflect what most funds want to do, that is vary their asset holdings.

Anyway, it depends whether you are a cup half-full, half-empty character. Personally I will wait to see what happens but I would be amazed if some deal does not occur. Also, we have to leave the Trustees to make the decision, we have no choice.

I'm happier that it is a set of businessmen intent on earning money (after all you need a solid Premiership team for that) as opposed to some rich, also foreign, owner who might interfere with the manager or walk off when he/she gets bored. We also have to see how much Daniel Williams is in for. Venture Capitalists do understand that they need a good management team in place whatever the business is and usually have a light touch on the day-to-day decisions.

[thenodrog]

Hence a lot of hard-nosed Americans choosing to buy clubs..........

........ The amount reputed to be paid for Rovers would still lead me to think they would be looking for an overall return in excess of £10m p.a. and that won't be based on fans through the gates. The income will need to be from branding, TV and other sponsorship deals. There is a synergy between brands and sport so I suspect that any new investors will be basing there basic business plan on that sort of development and marketing into new areas (eg Far East, USA) which is relatively long-term (at least 3-5 years to develop). On the other hand they would have an additional alternative 'big-win' if TV income continues to grow and the value of the club rises in line leading to another sale and resulting capital gain.

1. I'm not too keen on hard nosed Americans holding the future of BRFC in their hands. If they had been in charge through the 60's and 70's when the good times had long gone then we could easily have gone the same way as Bradford Park Avenue and Accy Stanley.

2. Overall return in excess of £10m pa. If it was as simple as all that to earn a 15-20% return on capital then why would the Walker Trust be looking to get out?

Question to all......

Does anybody else think it strange that the sudden attractiveness of the Prem League clubs to overseas investors does not appeared to be shared by British ones?

[Antgrad]

I can just imagine this thread in 1990.

"What does he know about football he's only knows about steel"

"He'll take over the club and run it his way. What's wrong with the way William Fox has been running it. We've been on the verge of Division One"

"He's bought and sold steel all his life. He'll sell Rovers when there's a profit in it for him"

"He says he's been a fan all his life but he lives in Jersey. I've never seen him here"

Face it, things have to change. Anybody who thinks we can compete as we are is living in cloud cuckoo land. When West Ham and Spurs are bidding £15m for an average player in Darren Bent you realise what we are up against. Yes, it's great that we've got Hughesy and his eye for spotting talent but it can't work every time. We won't get a Samba or a Nelsen every season. And even if we do how long have we got Hughesy for. Two seasons tops? Then what?

[bob fleming]

Great post Antgrad. It's all down to the fear of change. I suppose the main difference between now and when Jack took over was that when Jack did it it was all over in a flash. No press build up and no time for speculation.

[Damage]

Absolute rubbish!

When Jack took over the club was probably on the verge of going out of business, had done nothing on the pitch for 60 years!

I remember the anticipation at the time - everyone knew that JW was a proper fan and was going to be good for the club.

The situation today is totally different, the club has annual revenues of 50m, is well run, finishes in the top half of the top-league in the world.

As i said before, people should stop and think about what is actually happening. If people think that we will be better off on the portfolio of a connecticut based asset managment company ...... I despair. They have no money to put into BRFC, they just want to take it out.

Just because the "frontman" says he is a lifelong fan you people are sold hook line and sinker! Well frankly I doubt the depth of his passion for rovers. Why would you believe what these people say without any corroborating evidence? "Aww he called his pony hendry after our beloved colin. He must be a good 'un eh?"

Just look at the people on that website and what they do for a living. And you expect me to believe that they are "in it for the longterm" "determined to take BRFC to the next level" or any other empty promise. Bloody hell, investment bankers venture capitalist assest management distressed securities - it not even bloody sexy or intriguing! At least the Thai guy has some scandal surrounding him

[Antgrad]

I respect what your saying, Damage, but what exactly is the option? We cannot possibly stay as we are. Without having the money to compete we are certain to be down near the bottom in coming years. If we hang on to wait for "a real Rovers fan" to put in the kind of money that is required we'll wait for ever because as far as I'm concerned he just doesn't exist. You only get one Jack Walker in a lifetime and we're all grateful it happened when it did but it won't happen again.

[Damage]

At the moment I would rather stay as we are.

I suppose it depends whther you believe any new owners will invest extra money into players. I dont believe that the prospective buyers be putting any more money into players! If they come out and categorically state that significant extra money will be available then I will think again.

Why do you think these people will invest heavily in new players?? They have said they won't except when they can get value - that is no different than today. In fact its worse because the trust still put in some 5m per year with nothing expected in return.

[JAL]

I wonder if the Williams consortium has taken into account the rather dour and miserable Blackburnian persona? It would only take a real or perceived slight for fans to desert like rats off the proverbial ship ( 1960 cup final tickets?).

But I'm with Rev on this, I can't for the life of me see any good coming out of it for the institution of Blackburn Rovers Football Club. I also agree with Jim Mk2, surely the Trust are getting as much dough as possible whilst paying scant regard to Jack's legacy. Just look at the CV of the main player...

Max Holmes - Founder and Chief Investment Officer

Prior to founding Plainfield Asset Management LLC in February 2005, Max Holmes was the Head of the Distressed Securities Group and a Managing Director of D. E. Shaw & Co., L.P. As Head of the Distressed Securities Group, Mr. Holmes was a Co-Portfolio Manager for D. E. Shaw Laminar Portfolios, L.L.C. from 2002 through 2004. He was formerly a member of the Board of Directors of FAO Schwarz Inc., eToys Direct, Inc. and Sure Fit, Inc. From 1999 through January 2002, Mr. Holmes was the founder and Co-Head of the High Yield Group at RBC Capital Markets, a subsidiary of The Royal Bank of Canada, where he was Head of High Yield Origination and Capital and Head of High Yield Research at Gleacher NatWest Inc., .........was Head of Bankruptcy Research, acted as Salomon's High Yield Strategist, served as its lead representative....... and managed a proprietary distressed bond portfolio.............. then in the High Yield and Convertible Securities Department. ....... where he represented commercial banks in a variety of bankruptcies, restructurings, high yield bond and M&A transactions. ......, he has taught "Bankruptcy and Reorganization" at New York University Stern Graduate

Looks like which ever direction Rovers go in the backers will be in a win, win situation with a cv like that, were all concerned, but do the Americans see the bigger global picture and have the vision to exploit that global market of football far far better than us little Brits. If so bring it on, but the doubt over paying £10m for a player doesnt endear any Rovers fan.

[bob fleming]

Just because the "frontman" says he is a lifelong fan you people are sold hook line and sinker!

Which people are those then?

Read my earlier post today in this thread. I thought Antgrad made a good point in that if the Jack Walker takeover was to take place in 2007 there would no doubt be a few question marks (however I fully accept that we aren't in Div 2 and heading for relgation, so maybe not).

Where does it all end? Well anyone's guess is as good as mine at the moment, as many have said we're in the hands of John Williams and The Trustees. The Trustees who are are that keen on BRFC that they want to sell it - so we can't stay as we are it would seem (sorry Philip but I just don't buy that "in the best interests" stuff at the moment).

The articles in the LT and The People are a poor atempt at getting people onside with these guys. If Daniel Williams would care to arrange a Q & A on Radio Lancs (or any radio station for that matter) we'd soon find out how much of a Rovers fan he really is.

As for the alternatives? I'm sure we could find 100's on this messageboard who'd run the club tomorrow, they'd not take any money out either. Then again they wouldn't be able to find the £67million to buy the thing in the first place.

Where's that money going by the way?

Hopefully I've got this all wrong but I've no faith in what I've read abouts these guys at all.

[John]

The line today about Daniel Williams calling his dog Hendry is surely bullshyte!

Like the Nutall one last week.....

[EwoodGlory]

What was shyte about the Nutall story?

[RevidgeBlue]

What was shyte about the Nutall story?

If it exists at all, it's only a newly formed Company set up specifically as a vehicle for buying the club. It's not a long standing venture of DW's named after his favourite club etc.

[EwoodGlory]

Thats exactly what it is, a new company setup for the purposes of purchasing the club for the new consortium.

It's a new consortium, so a new company has to be setup.

Mike Ashley has just done exactly the same thing with Newcastle and I think the company name is St James Holdings Ltd, as he wouldn't put the thing through Sports Direct because that isn't a private comapny like the club will be.

The papers got a bit mixed up and claimed Nuttal was an existing company of his.

[RevidgeBlue]

The line today about Daniel Williams calling his dog Hendry is surely bullshyte!

Like the Nutall one last week.....

Female slant on the horse claim...................

My better half said they must have been desperately trying to think of a Rovers related name they could say it was called.

She reckoned it must be called "Henry" and they managed to come up with "Hendry" so as not to upset it too much!

Must have been a bugger getting it to hold still whilst they dyed it's mane yellow though!

[John]

The company was set-up recently (in order to assist him with the purchase of the club) ?

We all obviously care deeply about this but we are possibly being too harsh in our assessment of this takeover. We are basing our views on what we have been reading in the tabloids. I am sure Daniel Williams will speak more publicly and speficially about his plans when the deal is very close to being agreed.

I have to admit that I am finding it hard not to think about this issue. It is dominating my mind this summer and there is nothing else really to talk about. Plus the fact we are not being linked (publicly) with any players at all. It just seems all doom and gloom at the moment but we just have to trust those in charge of the club that they will make the right decision.