[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[RevidgeBlue]

Just wait and see until the club makes an announcement, pure speculation without any knowledge outside of media reports, ill reports as well, will only serve to make you ill.

Sorry 1864, have to disagree - the Trustees will no doubt do what they want regardless of what we think, but for what it's worth the time for fans to have their say is now, based on whatever information is to hand.

There's little point crying over spilt milk once the deal has been done, you've just got to make the best of it at that point.

[RevidgeBlue]

So trying to envisage the best case scenario:

These guys will want to make c 20% p.a. on their 67m investment. ie. c 13m p.a.

On the one hand that will surely require finishing no lower than the UEFA places year in year out.

On the other hand it also requires the players to be brought in and retained to maintain that perennial top 6 or 7 spot AND make another 13m p.a. profit on top.

If these guys prove to be so red hot at marketing the Blackburn Rovers brand globally they can do that, I will tip my hat off to them.

But with the best will in the world it does seem a very big ask.

[John]

If these guys prove to be so red hot at marketing the Blackburn Rovers brand globally they can do that, I will tip my hat off to them.

But with the best will in the world it does seem a very big ask.

You never know!

Williams does appear to be a very clever man and a very successful businessman for someone so young.

[Mike Graham]

You never know!

Williams does appear to be a very clever man and a very successful businessman for someone so young.

they will need to succeed at the more difficult job of marketting to The Blackburn and district public before they tackle the little job of global marketting!!

[Mike Graham]

You never know!

Williams does appear to be a very clever man and a very successful businessman for someone so young.

they will need to succeed at the more difficult job of marketing to the Blackburn and district public before they tackle the little job of global marketing!!

[John]

He obviously thinks he can do it.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I struggle to see the benefit in Mr Williams and his associates taking over the club.

At the moment we have a Trust - left by the greatest of all fans - that doesn't take any money out of the club - but donates £3 - 5m per season.

This would be replaced by investers who want to do the opposite.

The only way that they could do this and leave enough money in the budget to keep in the Premiership (in reality) is by greatly increasing our global profile and merchandising. The far east market does offer great opportunities - but I struggle to see how Rovers represent a particularly strong market image in comparison to the Uniteds of this world. The only way they could do this - would be to get us in the Champs League.

Maybe that is their gambit - provide significant investment initially - in the hope that MH can produce some magic and get us in the top 4. If that doesn't work out - wait for the next TV deal (which with global TV rights will probably be even higher than the last) - then sell Rovers on for a profit.

[John]

Just reading the People article again, this section interests me:

Rovers have been rocked with the disclosures but are keen to sell. The Jack Walker Trustees want to cash in and think this is their best chance of a proper handover. The only snag for Dan Williams is that he may have offered too much for Rovers after learning his offer was about £10m more than any rival.

I wonder what they mean by "Rovers have been rocked with the disclosures" and I would like to know who else has made rival bids.....

[JAL]

Just reading the People article again, this section interests me:

Rovers have been rocked with the disclosures but are keen to sell. The Jack Walker Trustees want to cash in and think this is their best chance of a proper handover. The only snag for Dan Williams is that he may have offered too much for Rovers after learning his offer was about £10m more than any rival.

I wonder what they mean by "Rovers have been rocked with the disclosures" and I would like to know who else has made rival bids.....

Just spoke to one of the cashiers at the petrol station on cravens brow, he claimed that he'd spoken to John Williams son during the week and he claimed that his dad was very angry with the LT and the People because as far as they were concerned these people had only come to look around Ewood some time ago and that was the end of it nothing else had materialised then all of a sudden we get all this speculation, i think if nothing comes of this and its just a wind up to sell papers from the local rag..... it will be finished with as far as Rovers fans are concerned.

Andy Neild and Alan Nixons credability are definitely on the line with this story.

[brfc fan]

What I want to know is do the Walkers want to sell BRFC anyway or are they just interested in certain buyers?

If Williams pulled out would they accept a bid from another consortium?

[Roar of the Rover]

They are willing to sell that's why they're having negotiations with buyers but they'll only sell to people who are right for the club and thats for them to decide.

[HairwayToSteven]

They are willing to sell that's why they're having negotiations with buyers but they'll only sell to people who are right for the club and thats for them to decide.

It's not entirely up to them to decide. Ol' Jack's talking from his grave also, there are certain conditions that must be met first, if and when they decide to cash in.

[IAN57]

I think these yanks see BRFC as a platform to spread their empire into Britain and hence europe.

Spread the Iconix sportswear brand, buy a few racecourses (Ascot is in trouble), move into finance.

A successful home brand (BRFC) would of course be essential.

It might not be a bad thing, we shall just have to wait and see what happens.

At least we will get a very good club shop. (and better burgers).

And think of the pre-season tour, california here wecome.

Blackburn Rovers - THE most successful town team, ever.

[Fife Rover]

Which people are those then?

Read my earlier post today in this thread. I thought Antgrad made a good point in that if the Jack Walker takeover was to take place in 2007 there would no doubt be a few question marks (however I fully accept that we aren't in Div 2 and heading for relgation, so maybe not).

Where does it all end? Well anyone's guess is as good as mine at the moment, as many have said we're in the hands of John Williams and The Trustees. The Trustees who are are that keen on BRFC that they want to sell it - so we can't stay as we are it would seem (sorry Philip but I just don't buy that "in the best interests" stuff at the moment).

The articles in the LT and The People are a poor atempt at getting people onside with these guys. If Daniel Williams would care to arrange a Q & A on Radio Lancs (or any radio station for that matter) we'd soon find out how much of a Rovers fan he really is.

As for the alternatives? I'm sure we could find 100's on this messageboard who'd run the club tomorrow, they'd not take any money out either. Then again they wouldn't be able to find the £67million to buy the thing in the first place.

Where's that money going by the way?

Hopefully I've got this all wrong but I've no faith in what I've read abouts these guys at all.

After reading all that has come to light so far I am getting worried too. Not so worried that I want to get abusive towards any of the parties involved, but definitely worried. So what can be done about it? Let's seewhat the possibilities might be.

American business men are generally very good at assessing a risk and seeing a good investment. They are also very good at marketing and spotting a promising "brand". It is not impossible for a very good marketing company to convince the new footie mad markets of the far east and others to accept that Rovers are historically very much bigger than Chelsea, Man.U., Arsenal etc. They have a long and proud history and were winning things long before these newcomers were even a twinkle etc etc. They are also one of only 4 to have won the EPL and so on. They have no debts, a modern stadium, magnificent training and academy facilties, a great managment team and they are presently on the way back to the very top of English football. In other words the classic "sleeping giant" Wow I want some of that they will all say and the shekels and Hong-Kong dollars will roll in.

On the other hand they might just be in it for a quick profit. We just don't know. We have to trust and hope that Jack's will prevails, even if this means that all the would be buyers are put off, at least we won't be any worse off than we are now.

As far as a supporters buy-out is concerned £67m divided by 30,000 would be £2334 each. Not impossible, but certainly improbable. It would however have some attractive features to true supporters; such as the possibility to write in a legal clause to make it impossible for the club to be sold again without the consent of every single shareholder.

[USABlue]

After reading all that has come to light so far I am getting worried too. Not so worried that I want to get abusive towards any of the parties involved, but definitely worried. So what can be done about it? Let's seewhat the possibilities might be.

American business men are generally vey good at assessing a risk and seeing a a good investment. They are also very good at marketing and spotting a promising "brand". It is not impossible for a very good marketing company to convince the new footie mad markets of the far east and others to accept that Rovers are historically very much bigger than Chelsea, Man.U., Arsenal etc. They have a long and proud history and were winning things long before these newcomers were even a twinkle etc etc. They are also one of only 4 to have won the EPL and so on. They have no debts, a modern stadium, magnificent training and academy facilties, a great managment team and they are presently on the way back to the very top of English football. Wow I want some of that they will all say and the shekels and Hong-Kong dollars will roll in.

On the other hand they might just be in it for a quick profit. We just do't know. We have to trust and hope that Jack's will prevails, even if this means that all the would be buyers are put off, at least we won't be any worse off than we are now.

Been worried since day one mate, had a brief respite when I heard this fella was a "fan" but that went away. I can only go on my experiences here with American business, particularly the financial type money makers. They are heartless ruthless and only look at one thing $$. Still we only have to look at China and Mexico's industrial growth and the number of blue collar yanks struglling to find decent jobs to have known that.

HEy I hope it all works out well but I have a terrible feelin gin the pit of my stomach.

[HairwayToSteven]

There are a lot of if's & but's, there always are when it comes to this sort of thing. All we can really do is look at what is actually going on. The trust wants out, and there are people wanting to buy their share. We have been informed that D. Williams is one of those people, and it would seem he's in the lead. He says he is a fan, and we have no information to the contrary. He's been honest, or so it would seem (he said there wouldn't be any Abramovich-spending sprees, which he easily could have answered more mysteriously). The take over is monitored by some capable people, the hired bunch and John Williams, the trust and others. It may still turn out that the take over will leave us in the hands of a moron, but we have no information on this, it remains to be seen. A round-up for me looks like this:

1. Trust wants out.

2. Club hires people to monitor and assist, plus have their own people looking closely.

3. D. Williams shows interest, says he's a fan, and comes off as truthful (at least to our knowledge).

4. We could end up not getting sold, leaving us with owners that don't care.

5. We could end up being sold to a fan (to X extent), which may turn out good/bad.

Best scenario would be selling, there can be little doubt. This is a work in progress. As far as I'm converned I'm not going to waste my time being worried any more, I'll just wait and see what comes.

[American]

Been reading the book "Moneyball" lately, about the Oakland A's - my favorite baseball team. Here is a management team that proved you don't need to outspend the opposition to win consistently, you just have to spend wisely. My guess is that if we keep Hughes, we can prove that football can be run the same way. He goes out and finds bargains that no one else is interested in (maybe Charlton doesn't go down if they signed Nelsen...) and makes them successful.

The game is littered with clubs that have tried to outspend their rivals and failed to win anything (see Leeds, Newcastle, Liverpool (that was for you Roar), etc.). I'm proud to be the fan of a baseball club who was sold to owners who actually wanted to run it as a business and have succeeded - not only on the field, but running either even or at a small profit off the field. I'd rather have owners come into Rovers with the same philosophy, which it sounds like we are getting, than owners who spend and then cut and run when we fail both on and off the field.

I'm sick of all of this whining that our prospective owners aren't going to spend spend spend and the people that say Jack would be rolling over in his grave after he said he'd like to see the club be self sustaining.

[philipl]

Extremely good points American.

BUT, this can be read another way and in the interest of balance I think it has to be said there are two rational reasons why the Dan Williams consortium are coming in for a degree of questioning besides the understandable fear of change/ loss of local control etc.

- Rovers do have exceptional management at the moment. I subscribe to the view that Mark Hughes HAS had availability of transfer funds to spend (not mega-bucks but more than has been spent) but quite simply the club has managed to put the current strong deep squad together without needing to go over-board with transfer cash. Many people find it difficult to give credit where it is due too openly but there is a definite if its not broke, why fix it question which has to be answered in relation to change of ownership now.

- Dan Williams consortium's handling of the press/communication with the fans is either good intentions going not quite right or a pretty cynical use of the media to attempt to condition the fans to take some unpleasant news (we are being bought by an asset stripping insolvency expert) in an attempt to bounce the Walker Trust into selling at terms the Walker Will might otherwise not allow.

The following is pessimistic and only a hypothesis but:

The Glazer model was to take a well run conservatively financed operation and turn its financial strength against itself.

Isn't that exactly what we are looking at here at Blackburn Rovers now? Are we not looking at a group of Americans seeing a chance to exploit the excellent conservative management of John Williams and the Board to get their nose in the coming Premiership bonanza? Exploiting Rovers' strong cost controls could yield a very healthy profit by just raking in the new media money and not investing at all.

When does "not spending Abramovic money or £10m on a single player" become we are not going to spend at all? Not that big a shift. They are only tantilising us with more of what we have had in terms of football success. And in the current Premiership, more than half the clubs can and will spend £10m+ on a single player and that is rapidly becoming the going price for any first team player going to a CL-qualified club so the consortium's best offer is hardly the stuff of dreams.

The difficulty the Williams bid has is that whereas Glazer had the Magnion/Ferguson rift over the horse available to exploit and then could use conventional take over tactics with a publicly quoted company in Man U, the Rovers' levers are very different.

The Trust probably has one of many obligations to do right by the fans and the people of Blackburn but how is that measured or expressed?

Why are we suddenly being graced by Alan Nixon on here?

Perhaps Alan (Nico) is being manipulated- there is certainly a lot of news management going on around the consortium. They seem to think they have to win over the fans. Is this just good PR or are they having to persuade the Trustees that they are doing the right thing by the people of Blackburn in selling to them?

We have had a classic striptease with Alan providing the backing music (drum roll, read it in the People this Sunday)- first the young fan done good, then the fabulously wealthy backers, then they are real with big numbers under management (not that big by the standards of hedge funds) oh and by the way they are inslovency experts....

And I think my memory is correct- "funds under management" in which case it is not completely their money either.

Two phrases are coming back to me- the Rovers Board being rocked by the media disclosure. If it is unexpected good news, you don't use the term "rocked" do you. And that odd comment that we will weep when we see who is behind Dan Williams. Tears of joy, anguish, incredulous laughter?

Back to the media striptease, is she down to her g-string and the cesarian section scars red and obvious?

The usual Blackburn attitude of "we are only little Blackburn, why would anyone buy us etc etc" could end up selling the club very short indeed. I am sure the naturally reticent Trustees are not appreciating being negotiated with in the media (still doing our sums, Williams over-offered by £10m and so on) in the guise of opennes. Is the Rupert is here, no he is not episode which Alan Nixon congratulted himself on a further attempt to give the Blackburn public a belief that the club has no choice in the matter?- it came from the owner of Miami Dolphins, not Switzerland or South Africa.

Blackburn Rovers and its Walker Trust ownership are very special. We continue to benefit from Jack Walker's sporting philanthropy to the tune of £6m a year and the Trust has vested the club with the some of the best management in the Premiership.

Given the Williams consortium has chosen to do its business in the media, what is there in the public domain at the moment to encourage us to want the Rovers ownership to change into "they are a hedge fund and will expect to make a profit"?

Revidge Blue has estimated the Fund would want £13m a year in profit- it is as good a starting point as any. So what, how, why is the club going to be better off with owners starting from a £19m per year negative position compared with the current owners?

[Mike Graham]

I am very worried by what is behind the sale. We have Trust Fund nominated directors who want out and to relocate home in Monaco; their heart is not in the Rovers in the way that Jack's was. The only saving grace are the terms of the trust (we believe)....but no-one outside of the Trust Administrators know what these terms are; unless someone on the MB knows better please?

I have nowt against our American cousins, except the USA workforce has largely been shafted by the men with the money investing in emerging markets at the expense of US investment and workers who in many areas of the States are suffering from abject poverty.

I have never seen a venture capital company who want to invest in sport (Rovers) out of love of the sport; they will want to take out big bucks, usually from selling on in 3 to 5 years.

Also please do not put trust (Hairway to Steven) in our hired advisors; via work I have come across Rochchilds a number of times and they work on a % commission basis; ie the more they get for the sale they more they get in their pockets.

Why don't we start a SUPPORTERS CHARTER for any sale. This is not directed at any one buyer but to all interested parties. For starters:

1. "the buyers must prove to be financially prudent and have set aside £Xm per year for investment in players and the Academy"

any more ideas?

any support for the SUPPORTERS CHARTER idea? I am sure that the LET would be interested.

[Glenn]

Why don't we start a SUPPORTERS CHARTER for any sale. This is not directed at any one buyer but to all interested parties. For starters:

1. "the buyers must prove to be financially prudent and have set aside £Xm per year for investment in players and the Academy"

any more ideas?

any support for the SUPPORTERS CHARTER idea? I am sure that the LET would be interested.

A few of us have been talking about this, I'll email you about it.

[Guest Kamy100]

According to this morning's Lancashire Telegraph, the Williams Consortium will decide this week whether to go ahead and bid for Rovers.

[Mike Graham]

A few of us have been talking about this, I'll email you about it.

cheers Glenn.

great minds think alike ................................!

[Paul Mellelieu]

Now is just the time for BRISA to make Rovers' fans opinions heard.

Philip paints a potentially depressing state of affairs. (Maybe Hughes knows this was interested in the City job after all).

We need a fans "fit and proper" set of criteria to run the Rovers.

[Mike Graham]

This is now about the fans moving from joy, horror, comment, and speculation to taking some control of the situation and having OUR voice heard.

Just because someone may say that this, or any other, buyout, is good for OUR Club does not mean that we should not have our own criteria, and be prepared to challenge , question and campaign.

[Antgrad]

Do you really think that John Williams and his team aren't already doing this?

Give the man some respect. For the way he's handled everything over the last couple of years its the least he deserves.