[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[thenodrog]

Philip paints a potentially depressing state of affairs. (Maybe Hughes knows this was interested in the City job after all).

.

I know that in your opinion I'm from Blackburn and am terminally thick but I can't really see that. Even the massively intellectually superior City fans are depressed too. Out of the fat into the fire!

Hughes must realise that he can do much better than City by continuing the good job that he is doing here and simply biding his time until a really plum job materialises.

Furthermore although I know neither personally I do feel that Hughes is a man of integrity and would simply not go within a million miles of a man like Thaksin.

[Fife Rover]

I know that in your opinion I'm from Blackburn and am terminally thick but I can't really see that. Even the massively intellectually superior City fans are depressed too. Out of the fat into the fire!

Hughes must realise that he can do much better than City by continuing the good job that he is doing here and simply biding his time until a really plum job materialises.

Furthermore although I know neither personally I do feel that Hughes is a man of integrity and would simply not go within a million miles of a man like Thaksin.

Hell Theno! That's two posts in succession where I am in agreement with you. Just rushing out to see if the sky is still up there.

[Glenn]

This is now about the fans moving from joy, horror, comment, and speculation to taking some control of the situation and having OUR voice heard.

Just because someone may say that this, or any other, buyout, is good for OUR Club does not mean that we should not have our own criteria, and be prepared to challenge , question and campaign.

There is a Fans Forum this evening and possible takeovers are on the agenda, so I'm waiting to hear what JW and Co. have to say about it before I decide if it's a good thing or not.

But as PB says, there is no harm in stating what we want from any potential bidders.

[dave birch]

I know that in your opinion I'm from Blackburn and am terminally thick but I can't really see that. Even the massively intellectually superior City fans are depressed too. Out of the fat into the fire!

Hughes must realise that he can do much better than City by continuing the good job that he is doing here and simply biding his time until a really plum job materialises.

Furthermore although I know neither personally I do feel that Hughes is a man of integrity and would simply not go within a million miles of a man like Thaksin.

Too right theno.

Another thing, in a similar vein, the potential new owners will want (even need) the Rovers to be successful if they want to make a quid. The only way that can be done is by winning.

Whilst I can understand people having some misgivings about the current state of play, I feel somewhat optimistic about the future.

I've got the feeling that good things are about to happen.

[den]

According to this morning's Lancashire Telegraph, the Williams Consortium will decide this week whether to go ahead and bid for Rovers.

Ok all you accountants - does this mean that DW has seen the books and also have the club and DW gone through due dilligance. If so, how long before the trustees are in a position to do the deal?

[thenodrog]

Do you really think that John Williams and his team aren't already doing this?

Give the man some respect. For the way he's handled everything over the last couple of years its the least he deserves.

If JW is doing anything at the moment it will be safeguarding his own arse.... err sorry future. John Williams has handled things very well recently as you say but that is because he was put in that position and given a mandate by the owners to do so. That may not be the situation when the new guys take over.

I would imagine that in the sake of continuity the new people will want JW in charge for a bedding-in period before ultimately paying him off and installing their own man.

[thenodrog]

I know that in your opinion I'm from Blackburn and am terminally thick

Hell Theno! That's two posts in succession where I am in agreement with you.

Too right theno.

Do you two need to be quite so quick to agree?

[Antgrad]

If JW is doing anything at the moment it will be safeguarding his own arse.... err sorry future. John Williams has handled things very well recently as you say but that is because he was put in that position and given a mandate by the owners to do so. That may not be the situation when the new guys take over.

I would imagine that in the sake of continuity the new people will want JW in charge for a bedding-in period before ultimately paying him off and installing their own man.

True, tnd, what happens after a takeover will be completely down to the new owners but it wasn't what I was saying. Questions are being asked about the suitability of the new owners and all I was saying was that surely Mr Williams and his team will already be asking the questions that are being thought up on here and reporting back to the Trust.

[thenodrog]

True, tnd, what happens after a takeover will be completely down to the new owners but it wasn't what I was saying. Questions are being asked about the suitability of the new owners and all I was saying was that surely Mr Williams and his team will already be asking the questions that are being thought up on here and reporting back to the Trust.

Granted antgrad, but not if (as I understand) it's already a done deal.

[Damage]

Philips analysis was bang on the money for me and far more rational than any rant that I have put out.

And the suggestion of a fan's "fit & proper" set of criteria is the best thing to come from this to date.

If the trust does have to make an assessment of this sort of thing before approving any purchase bid, then we should make sure they have our views. But we should move fast on this, maybe we can use this thread to brainstorm? (i.e. just generation of ideas for a couple of days - then the ideas can be judged and compiled into set of criteria.) Maybe someone can collate all ideas and summarise in a couple of days? I would like to set the ball rolling .........

- Criteria laid down in the supporters "fit and proper" criteria must be adopted by any new owners and made coniditon to any future sale.

- Supporter "fit and proper" criteria can only be changed by majority vote of adult season ticket holders (held for minimum of 3 years)

- Acadamy and training facilities must be maintained at current high standard

- Blackburn Rovers must have its home stadium and play home matches within 5 (10?) miles of Blackburn town centre (town hall)

- BRFC home colours are blue and white halves and must never be changed, Name is Blackburn Rovers not to be changed

[RevidgeBlue]

Granted antgrad, but not if (as I understand) it's already a done deal.

If what you say is true tnr, (and I know you usually move in very exalted circles) that worries me as much as the background of the proposed new owners.

On the one hand we have the official line through the LT that nothing much is happening, they haven't even made an official bid or seen the books yet.

On the other we have suggestions from a variety of different sources that in reality this is already done and dusted.

It's almost like they're trying to slide some bad news past us without us noticing. "Oh, by the way lads, we sold the club yesterday. See you later."

That would explain Nicko's reference to the club being "rocked" by the revelations. (Before the i's have been dotted and the t's crossed)

On the other hand for all we know, given the club have declined to officially comment, they may not even be taking this interest that seriously.

I know it's not normal practice to comment on the identity of interested parties etc but really in the circumstances we could do with far more detail from the club as to exactly what stage we're at.

[den]

This mornings LT article.

[Paul]

The link between Rovers and and an American asset management (or venture capital) company leaves me completely nonplussed to be quite honest, I just don't see any logical connection.

I can see the logic in an extremely wealthy individual or individuals, who don't mind spending or losing a few bob, buying into a football club for the challenge, excitement and kudos that comes with owning a professional sports "franchise" for want of a better word.

I don't see the attraction in investing in a (generally) non profit making venture such as Rovers for an institution like this whose clients are expecting higher than average returns in exchange for choosing slightly riskier investments than the norm. At least if you're being backed by a Bank you know you only have to repay a loan at a certain rate of interest.

The only possible motives I can see for them would be if they were looking for an avenue to gain exposure in and break into the UK and European markets. Or try to turn a quickish buck when the next Sky deal has been renegotiated. Or try to produce a constant income stream by continually selling players.

Personally I'd be a lot happier if we were taken over by a group of extremely wealthy individuals whose money is their own to do with as they please. I don't suppose however the Walker Trustees will want to turn down the Williams consortium interest if it is indeed true they're talking in terms of 10m more than any potential rivals. Or maybe they're not even allowed to.

P.S. We still need to know the extent of DW's personal investment in the venture.

I've been saying much the same for a long time Rev and no one except philip, has come up with an answer. While I understand the logic behind philip's view on the "why" I don't agree with it. Around 25 years ago I worked in an industry sector that was very sexy. The technology was cutting edge, new and had massive potential. Persuading pension funds, venture capitalists and plcs to invest was not difficult. The right story, the right figures etc soon persuaded money men to back several companies in the sector. Ultimately the company I worked for persuaded a world-known multi-national to invest. None of those little technology companies exist today.

I feel the EPL is much the same. Very sexy right now but no one has shown a single arguement as to why investing in Blackburn Rovers or any club outside the big four will reap real dividends. A potential investor could have made more money buying, Sainsbury, Dobbies or Standard Life shares in the last 12 months. The profits are not there in football and, unless the new EPL investors have seen something others have missed for years, will never exist. I've got my ST, might buy a new shirt or two next season......end of story. Great customer.

I don't believe these investments stack up and fear for the future for the majority of PL clubs as a result.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I feel the EPL is much the same. Very sexy right now but no one has shown a single arguement as to why investing in Blackburn Rovers or any club outside the big four will reap real dividends. A potential investor could have made more money buying, Sainsbury, Dobbies or Standard Life shares in the last 12 months. The profits are not there in football and unless the new EPL investors have seen something others have missed for years will never exist. I've got my ST, might buy a new shirt or two next season......end of story. Great customer.

I don't believe these investments stack up and fear for the future for the majority of PL clubs as a result.

Paul, this is exactly what I was getting at in my earlier thread re the ' do they know something we don't scenario'.

The worry has to be imo for every club and every fan (except poss the so called 4)- what is all this investment leading to - what football (exclusive only) bubble are we going to end up in ?

Yet again, to me the Theno theoretical model of the Lancashire United is the one that keeps springing to mind - and this is what worries me.

[Paul]

I'm not sure the Lancs Utd thing is even a possibility, even if it did happen it would fail. To take this a little further. Investor buys BRFC, crowds become a problem, same investor then buys PNE, Dingles and Blackpool, shuts them down, logically all those fans go Ewood. Sorry wrong....those fans just don't go.

It's probably difficult for investors to understand but footie fans are tribal, they cannot be bought. It won't work and I'm afraid to say Blackburn Rovers does not have the world wide potentail some seem to think.

[Hughesy]

How much do clubs get for getting into the champs league? anyone know?

[JC4LAB]

Mr Williams aside,I am concerned what's in it for american investors who are not Rovers fans..Is there is oil under Ewood Park?

[Jimbo]

I'm not sure the Lancs Utd thing is even a possibility, even if it did happen it would fail. To take this a little further. Investor buys BRFC, crowds become a problem, same investor then buys PNE, Dingles and Blackpool, shuts them down, logically all those fans go Ewood. Sorry wrong....those fans just don't go.

It certainly wasn't the case with Richmond and London Scottish fans when they merged with London Irish and moved to Reading

[CAPT KAYOS]

I'm not sure the Lancs Utd thing is even a possibility, even if it did happen it would fail. To take this a little further. Investor buys BRFC, crowds become a problem, same investor then buys PNE, Dingles and Blackpool, shuts them down, logically all those fans go Ewood. Sorry wrong....those fans just don't go.

It's probably difficult for investors to understand but footie fans are tribal, they cannot be bought. It won't work and I'm afraid to say Blackburn Rovers does not have the world wide potentail some seem to think.

Traditionally the way the game has been and the way we as the 'common' fans think then I don't think there is any doubt.

However, there is possible a 'new market breed of fan/ next generation' that they are looking to tap into (the something we don't see)

As Theno has been saying for a while re the reduction of pricing not being the answer and the value of how people see something could well be the pivot they are using - its already happening now re ticket prices etc.

It won't be for me and you and probably 90% of fans - but put a bit of glitz with all the bells and jingles on it with the advertising melee and people become mesmerised - as I said earlier it could even well end up as Lancashire Globetrotters.

I could be right or wrong - but all the 'we need investment to compete' is setting alarm bells ringing with me. Compete for what? How many will there be to compete as not everybody will get investment?

Its not just Rovers I am concerned about but the whole impact on Football as well - and your comment about our world wide potential could in all reality leaving us as a member, yet bottom of an elitist group.

[Hughesy]

How much do clubs get for getting into the champs league? anyone know?

Anyone know??

[bob fleming]

Anyone know??

Just over a tenner.

No, that's not right, millions Hughesy. Millions, untold riches. It's the key and the answer to everything. So long as you progress in the competition that is. As for an exact amount, I don't know. But it's a lot.

[philipl]

There is a complicated formula which relates to size of association you come from and number of clubs in Champions League from your country.

The numbers that stick in my mind are that for English clubs, £5m for being in the Group stages, another £5m for making the knock out stages and that total accumulated prize money if you win it is about £20m.

I believe clubs keep most of the home gate money (for Arsenal and Chelsea, that works out at £2m per game) but they get no revenue from in-stadium advertising as that is controlled by UEFA and goes into the central pot.

Relatively small beer compared with the Premiership in 2007/8 where clubs will be getting £30m just for being there with prize and appearance money on top.

However, big enough for clubs budgeting on being in the knock-out stages to see a massive hole if they get knocked out in the pre-group stages qualifying round.

[JAL]

It's probably difficult for investors to understand but footie fans are tribal, they cannot be bought. It won't work and I'm afraid to say Blackburn Rovers does not have the world wide potentail some seem to think.

If i hadnt have watched Rovers in the dark days of the 70's, i, might have agreed with you Paul on the world wide potential bit of Blackburn Rovers, but not now,no the potential is there......Tugay a top class player of Turkey and boy are they a passionate bunch of fans who will be keenly keeping an eye on Blackburn Rovers, Benni Macarthy and Aaron Mokoena stars of South African football how many fans there that will be keeeping a watchful eye on Blackburn Rovers.

The list could go on and on with Zurab and his nation of followers, Ryan Nelsen and his nation of followers, Friedel and the American market, Samba and his African nation, Mgp and the Norwegians. With a quality multi-national Blackburn Rovers team a united nations of football, Paul its there just imagine with a few key additions from other nations the brand would just grow and grow if they can do well on the pitch

Growing the world wide brand of Blackburn Rovers shouldnt be a problem... the potential is there..... the benefits could be massive for Rovers and maybe the Americans see a bigger picture outside of Europe, whilst we are stuck on the inside just seeing whats going on in and around us.

The key locally is to break down Lancashires small town mentality barriers that seem to exist in all our local towns.

[American]

You aren't counting TV revenue. Don't they get at least a big cut of the local fee?

[Fife Rover]

Mr Williams aside,I am concerned what's in it for american investors who are not Rovers fans..Is there is oil under Ewood Park?

They won't know the answer to that until they have brought the drilling rigs in.