[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[Clog Blue]

If i hadnt have watched Rovers in the dark days of the 70's, i, might have agreed with you Paul on the world wide potential bit of Blackburn Rovers, but not now,no the potential is there......Tugay a top class player of Turkey and boy are they a passionate bunch of fans who will be keenly keeping an eye on Blackburn Rovers, Benni Macarthy and Aaron Mokoena stars of South African football how many fans there that will be keeeping a watchful eye on Blackburn Rovers.

The list could go on and on with Zurab and his nation of followers, Ryan Nelsen and his nation of followers, Friedel and the American market, Samba and his African nation, Mgp and the Norwegians. With a quality multi-national Blackburn Rovers team a united nations of football, Paul its there just imagine with a few key additions from other nations the brand would just grow and grow if they can do well on the pitch

Growing the world wide brand of Blackburn Rovers shouldnt be a problem... the potential is there..... the benefits could be massive for Rovers and maybe the Americans see a bigger picture outside of Europe, whilst we are stuck on the inside just seeing whats going on in and around us.

The key locally is to break down Lancashires small town mentality barriers that seem to exist in all our local towns.

Good point but i don't think its even the Blackburn brand that they are considering to buy in on, its the premiership brand thats the key.

They are speculating not on the next sky deal but the one after that. Sky have done a fantastic job of selling the EPL around the world & will continue to expand these markets. Their are hundreds of millions of chinese, Indian's & other eastern countries, all who within the next ten years will be aquireing tv's, satalite dishes etc & sky, setanta & others will all want a piece of that pie. I believe this is the reason for all the foriegn investment in the EPL.

This means that whoever buys Rovers they HAVE to keep us in the premiership & therefor HAVE to compete with all the other clubs on transfer fees , wages etc.

Can't say that i'm happy about us being sold to anyone who's ultimate goal is to make money out of us but to do that they have to ENSURE that we are a competative premier league club.

[philipl]

You aren't counting TV revenue. Don't they get at least a big cut of the local fee?

Including TV fees, 32 clubs received E435m (£292m) between them in 2005/6. There is a break down there so my numbers are rather out of date as now I recall I remembered them from when Liverpool won it. The English clubs get the biggest pay-outs from the media pool but the media pool is within the £292m total.

That still worked out as under £10m per club on average from the CL in 2005/6 whereas the Prem will be paying out over £40m per club on average in 2007/8.

[Paul]

I could be right or wrong - but all the 'we need investment to compete' is setting alarm bells ringing with me. Compete for what? How many will there be to compete as not everybody will get investment?

Its not just Rovers I am concerned about but the whole impact on Football as well - and your comment about our world wide potential could in all reality leaving us as a member, yet bottom of an elitist group.

Exactly ~ compete for what? That nice Mr Glazier down the road is going to stand back and let us have a go? How much has it cost to build Utd to their current level? Fergie has spent £50m this summer and people are talking about Rovers needing to spend £20-30m to make the next step up. Bellamy and Bent (if we wanted them) would take that on the basis of paper talk.

Joey Barton went to Newcastle for £3m a year. Now this is a very average midfielder more famous for acts of violence than his exploits on the football field. The next step up is more like £150m minimum because we are talking about a squad earning around £3m each, probably £60-70m per season. The moment we become a threat the MGPs of this world will find themselves offered a very nice package by Utd, Chelsea or whoever. A lot of very average footballers are suddenly being talked about in £10m terms or more. Shudder!

I just can't understand how the money men think it will add up. The investment required to get any side into the CL does not justify the return. £70m invested in the stock market would give you far better returns than £70m in a football club that doesn't generate enough cash through the gate to pay its way. There has to be much more to this than meets the eye.

Hands up. If you had £70m available would you buy your favourite football club? I wouldn't.

[Eddie]

No, but if I had £500m available I'd probably look into it.

[Antgrad]

Exactly ~ compete for what?

Compete for what we're competing for now. A chance of European football, a chance of a cup final. Other teams have been given a hand up with investment (Birmingham, Villa, Sunderland, West Ham, City) and as we finished above all those last season we are likely to be left behind if we don't. If those 5 finish above us we all know where we are, the brink of the relegation zone and possible relegation.

[Paul]

Antgrad I understand that. The question is why does soemone want to spend £70m and then more on transfers and wages for the chance of a UEFA place or a cup final? The financial rewards for this are zilch.

[Antgrad]

Antgrad I understand that. The question is why does soemone want to spend £70m and then more on transfers and wages for the chance of a UEFA place or a cup final? The financial rewards for this are zilch.

To be honest I don't know why but men who have made a lot more money than me (and you maybe? ) seem to want to do it. Randy Lerner, Eggert Magnusson, Thaksin Shinawatra, Alexandre Gaydamak, Mike Ashley this list goes on. The guys are no mugs and to quote CJ from Reggie Perrin "didn't get where they are today" by throwing money away.

[Duff's Minder]

Just had a lunch with a couple of colleagues who know about these things (I work for the FT) and they say the only opportunity they can see in owning a club like Blackburn would be to do as the Glazers have done and load it up with debt. Football clubs have almost uniquely steady revenue streams.

Other than that the only rationale I can see would be if these guys (and I'm takling about all the foreign investors in PL clubs) know something that we don't. Maybe they think they can introduce a ringfenced league with no relegation. Maybe they think they can get a slice of ridiculous TV money. But it looks like the TV Rights market has plateaud so that's a risky bet.

Noone will ever get rich off Rovers as a stand alone business unless we start winning titles with minimal investment.

The only thing I can see is that the reports we've had so far don't tell the whole story. It sounds to me that these other backers that DW has talked about are not so much investors as the people he has borrowed from and he is doing it because he's a young rich bloke who wants to splash some money.

Either way, we're not going to have any real money to spend (he's not that rich) and the uncertainty is not going to help the club hold on to players and staff.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't see how any of this ends well for Rovers.

[USABlue]

about the Oakland A's - my favorite baseball team.

That explains a lot.

[USABlue]

Deleted, straying off topic.

[USABlue]

I'm not sure the Lancs Utd thing is even a possibility, even if it did happen it would fail. To take this a little further. Investor buys BRFC, crowds become a problem, same investor then buys PNE, Dingles and Blackpool, shuts them down, logically all those fans go Ewood. Sorry wrong....those fans just don't go.

It's probably difficult for investors to understand but footie fans are tribal, they cannot be bought. It won't work and I'm afraid to say Blackburn Rovers does not have the world wide potentail some seem to think.

Oh I don't know Paul, if there is one thing Americans love and endear themselves to it is an underdog, cinderella teams. Market it that way, as the lil ol town team struggling against the evils of the Mega bucks sides of Man U, Chelski etc and it might peak some interest. We already have Brad. Done well we could be one of the better known names here. Not World wide but its a start.

[nicko]

Just for the record.

I came on last week to put a few points right and try to keep people straight. There was a great deal of confusion about.

I don't get manipulated, not even by Mrs Nicko. That is conspiracy theorising gone daft.

The reason the story came out the way it did was down to getting one lead a week ago and then another afterwards. That's how it works.

Maybe the stories are 'pro' and positive, but until we find out otherwise what's wrong with that?

I can assure you that the Williams camp are unhappy so much has leaked - and it certainly isn't news management from this end.

The last piece of the jigsaw will be the plans of the Williams 'Nuttall' team. That has yet to be revealed. And then is the true time to judge.

I think most of the other relevant information has been in the People so far despite various efforts to knock it.

Cheers.

[Fife Rover]

To be honest I don't know why but men who have made a lot more money than me (and you maybe? ) seem to want to do it. Randy Lerner, Eggert Magnusson, Thaksin Shinawatra, Alexandre Gaydamak, Mike Ashley this list goes on. The guys are no mugs and to quote CJ from Reggie Perrin "didn't get where they are today" by throwing money away.

They probably see it as better than giving it to the Inland Revenue or whatever the Taxation Authority is where they come from.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Good point but i don't think its even the Blackburn brand that they are considering to buy in on, its the premiership brand thats the key.

They are speculating not on the next sky deal but the one after that. Sky have done a fantastic job of selling the EPL around the world & will continue to expand these markets. Their are hundreds of millions of chinese, Indian's & other eastern countries, all who within the next ten years will be aquireing tv's, satalite dishes etc & sky, setanta & others will all want a piece of that pie. I believe this is the reason for all the foriegn investment in the EPL.

This means that whoever buys Rovers they HAVE to keep us in the premiership & therefor HAVE to compete with all the other clubs on transfer fees , wages etc.

Can't say that i'm happy about us being sold to anyone who's ultimate goal is to make money out of us but to do that they have to ENSURE that we are a competative premier league club.

A voice of sanity among all the gnashing of teeth. People are looking to buy Rovers because Rovers are an EPL club who are for sale, and there aren't many of those around.

The fact that Rovers have historically lost money does not make them a bad investment; in fact good investors are the ones who can spot profit where others can't.

The Walker Trust runs a series of company's that have little if anything in common with BRFC - we are an anomoly in their portfolio. If our buyers own a few racecourses and a sports brand, then it is not beyond the whit of man to assume that they might be able to see more benefit in owning Rovers than does a collection of engineering firms and an airline. Is the Walker Trust evaluating the television rights potential of the burgeoning consumer populations of the Far East? I doubt it; they are probably more tuned into the forward price of fuel oil.

Tp me Clog Blue's scenario is afr more likely than the asset-stripping hysteria griping this thread. Who would buy Ewood? A few houses thrown up on Brockhall probably isn't gripping many on Wall Street.

[Jimbo]

Thaksin Shinawatra, Alexandre Gaydamak, Mike Ashley this list goes on. The guys are no mugs and to quote CJ from Reggie Perrin "didn't get where they are today" by throwing money away.

Aw come on - Gaydamak is a front man for his Father who is disbarred from holding directorships as he's outstanding warrants for two charges; illegal arms dealing with Angola, and tax evasion. And Shinawatra is currently under investigation for embezzlement - I'm sure you could have full and frank discussions with plenty of Manure fans as to whether saddling them with 700 Millions worth of debt is good business - so that leaves two people who even if they'd strangled nuns would have been better than the incumbents that they replaced.

[Antgrad]

Aw come on - Gaydamak is a front man for his Father who is disbarred from holding directorships as he's outstanding warrants for two charges; illegal arms dealing with Angola, and tax evasion. And Shinawatra is currently under investigation for embezzlement - I'm sure you could have full and frank discussions with plenty of Manure fans as to whether saddling them with 700 Millions worth of debt is good business - so that leaves two people who even if they'd strangled nuns would have been better than the incumbents that they replaced.

I don't remember saying that any of them made their money legally or that it was good business for the club they took over.

[LA Rover]

Just a little FYI from the LT article. The part that says:

"Plainfield, based in Greenwich, was formed two years ago by American financier Max Holmes. They now own several racecourses, including Belmont in New York."

I work in the horse racing industry, and this is not true. They do not own Belmont Park. They were part of a consortium (Capital Play) that was bidding for the franchise rights for the New York Racing Association's 3 tracks (Belmont, Aqueduct and Saratoga). Another scenario has since been recommended to the Governor of New York for running of the tracks.

However, they (Plainfield) were going to pop for the entire $250 million in financing, so it does seem like they have the cash.

[thenodrog]

If what you say is true tnr, (and I know you usually move in very exalted circles)

Yeah right.

Kidding aren't you Rev? I just occasionally sup ale in local pubs.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Hey Theno,

If you can't see the dangers involved in this bid well...

You forget to mention the chip on the shoulder.

[thenodrog]

Hey Theno,

If you can't see the dangers involved in this bid well...

You forget to mention the chip on the shoulder.

Have you missed a paragraph out Paul? Or am I just too thick to understand?

[Alan75]

There is a Fans Forum this evening and possible takeovers are on the agenda, so I'm waiting to hear what JW and Co. have to say about it before I decide if it's a good thing or not.

But as PB says, there is no harm in stating what we want from any potential bidders.

No offence Glenn, Preston Blue, what the fans wants will have no bearing on the outcome of this take over. Demand as much as you like, campaign and make as much noise as you like, but it will be water off a ducks back to capital venturists.

Bigger institutions than Rovers have fallen foul, in the past and will in the future. When these people move in for companies, they will come up with all sorts of plans to bounce off the unions and employees, but ultimately they already have a business plan. The job centre is full of the casualties of profit orientated capitalists.

[den]

No offence Glenn, Preston Blue, what the fans wants will have no bearing on the outcome of this take over. Demand as much as you like, campaign and make as much noise as you like, but it will be water off a ducks back to capital venturists.

Bigger institutions than Rovers have fallen foul, in the past and will in the future. When these people move in for companies, they will come up with all sorts of plans to bounce off the unions and employees, but ultimately they already have a business plan. The job centre is full of the casualties of profit orientated capitalists.

By gum Alan, you're a cheerful souls tonight.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Kinnell Theno, quick off the mark.

Now I don't want to bore our fellow MB members to death with another round. So....I never called you, or my fellow Blackburnians thick. I said you acted like it. So there. Can we give it a rest.

[Alan75]

By gum Alan, you're a cheerful souls tonight.

Been involved a number of times, sometimes good, sometimes bad and somehow I managed to survive

The first time, the company taking over went bankrupt 12 months later.

The second time, the company taking over, asset stripped then sold off at a profit.

The third time the company taking over, the financing banks ring fenced the company, preventing the parent company from further asset stripping, sat tight and made no further investments, until the market improved and sold it on again.

The fourth time, the buyers new what the business was about, invested heavily and made record profits, and have gone from strength to strength.

Hope it's the fourth option.

[Roversider]

Been involved a number of times, sometimes good, sometimes bad and somehow I managed to survive

The fourth time, the buyers new what the business was about, invested heavily and made record profits, and have gone from strength to strength.

Hope it's the fourth option.

You're not alone in those experiences but we all survive them, by the way the Jobcentres are also full of people from companies that failed because they were not competitive.

My experience of Venture Capitalists is that they are tough, often ruthless and would always look for a short-term (under 3 years) win. The business I was in created five millionaires in the space of a two year period and earned the VCs tens of millions. They could only do that by running the business properly and they didn't asset strip but put in investment to enhance the business. Key was getting a very skilled operational management team (who became the millionaires for very little outlay).

So I am hopeful that option 4 will be the case!